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unemployment benefits running out for 1.3m americans saturday

What will today's end of benefits for 1.3m Americans mean for this forum?


  • Total voters
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That is exactly the problem with these programs, they sound good, but the fraud is overwhelming. Why the government cannot police these programs better is beyond me.

People have to participate. When you know someone is taking advantage of the system you have to report them. I don't think enough people do this though.
 
I'd say when the unemployment runs out like this, we're soon going to see an increase in the employment numbers.

I think you are correct.

The only person I know who uses unemployment as it's supposed to be used is a guy in construction. Everyone else I know who uses it? Take it for a paid vacation.

:( Sad.

As of Jan 15 I am out of a job as well, and don't have another one lined up yet (stupid holiday season). If I hit that date without anything, I'm wondering if I should apply, given that I have savings.
 
That is exactly the problem with these programs, they sound good, but the fraud is overwhelming. Why the government cannot police these programs better is beyond me.

It would be incredibly labor intensive, and I don't know if you would be able to generate the savings that would more than compensate for the increase in the need to hire people.

People have to participate. When you know someone is taking advantage of the system you have to report them.

Maybe we could hire the current unemployed to do the labor of checking up on fraud, and pay them via a bonus system. You get 25% of all monies you save the government, or something.
 
Seriously? How many people do you know collecting right now? Do you think that you can make an accurate assessment based upon that?

I know a lot of dudes that have done it. Every single member of the military is told when they are getting out that they qualify for unemployment, and should apply for it while they are waiting for school or their next job to pick up. It's one of the reasons our "vet unemployment" numbers are disproportionately higher. Most of them used it as Maggie described it - basically a paid vacation until they got on with their lives. They were following the rules, doing what the government told them to do, and once they hit school or their next job they got off - it was hardly fraudulent. But it was paid vacation while they lived at their folks' house.
 
It would be incredibly labor intensive, and I don't know if you would be able to generate the savings that would more than compensate for the increase in the need to hire people.

So government gives up and promotes a society of fraud and abuse.
 
It would be incredibly labor intensive, and I don't know if you would be able to generate the savings that would more than compensate for the increase in the need to hire people.



Maybe we could hire the current unemployed to do the labor of checking up on fraud, and pay them via a bonus system. You get 25% of all monies you save the government, or something.

I think they already do (or maybe used to) offer rewards for turning people in for welfare/unemployment fraud, to just any citizen.
 
I know a lot of dudes that have done it. Every single member of the military is told when they are getting out that they qualify for unemployment, and should apply for it while they are waiting for school or their next job to pick up. It's one of the reasons our "vet unemployment" numbers are disproportionately higher. Most of them used it as Maggie described it - basically a paid vacation until they got on with their lives. They were following the rules, doing what the government told them to do, and once they hit school or their next job they got off - it was hardly fraudulent.

Well I can understand that in a way, because they are going to be deployed in the future, they are going to have a VERY rough time at finding any employer that is willing to hire them. No employer wants to go through the trouble only to have their employee leave unexpectedly.
 
I think they already do (or maybe used to) offer rewards for turning people in for welfare/unemployment fraud, to just any citizen.

I smell a Reality TV Show / Bounty Hunter Spinoff in there somewhere.
 
Well I can understand that in a way, because they are going to be deployed in the future, they are going to have a VERY rough time at finding any employer that is willing to hire them. No employer wants to go through the trouble only to have their employee leave unexpectedly.

Uh, no. Sorry, I may have been unclear - they get told this when they are getting out. Going into the Individual Ready Reserve. The only chance they have of getting deployed at this point is if Canada invades.

The main problem they face with employers is the "oh crap every veteran has PTSD and is going to be a liability nightmare for me" bias.


But Wal-Mart's CEO made it company policy that every single veteran of Iraq/Afghanistan who walked in looking for a job would leave with one, regardless of whether the store needed a new position filled or not. They could all have gone and gotten jobs.
 
The bottom line is people will have to start tightening their belts. The one item that makes me think of this story on CNN

I'm praying for a job - Help! My unemployment benefits just expired - CNNMoney

First, he bought a house in 2006, lost his job in 2012 and rejected relocation to keep working and has fallen on hard times. His decision to not relocate in retrospect was a bad one especially since he's got health issues, is 60 years old and has a limited skill set. He's looking for the government stipend to let him keep his house without working though he claims he's sent out 84 resumes with little to no prospects. Proactively, he should probably sell his house without taking the foreclosure hit, downsize to something less expensive like a condo or townhouse, and he may have to take a job which is not in his skill set. They may have to eat less and crunch the numbers to make ends meet. Welfare is an option yet that's just moving from one government subsidy to another. It does make me feel bad for these folks - but I don't know the whole story and even if I did, EUB are not supposed to be a welfare substitute. People need to plan better and not depend on handouts and they need to do this earlier in life. Yes, some get caught no matter how much planning and saving they do and fall on hard times which is why welfare was created - yet I'd bet that this guy would rather take welfare than have to work at Walmart as a greeter, or get a job for $10 an hour in Home Depot.
 
How, specifically, and at what level of gov't? Will that new gov't program target mainly unemployed morons or must one have a solid track record of working and being financially sound first?

Not suggesting the unemployed by targeted (but certainly not excluded either) but the mostly employed population. They get their own businesses going and they've opened up their jobs for someone else, plus maybe hire some people themselves.

Level government involvement? I'm not sure. Beyond the things already being done; PR campaigns, subsidized business classes at colleges, local and state incentives like tax amnesty for a while if they move into certain locations, great deals on renting space in vacant buildings like a section 8 deal of new business. That's just off the top of mind. I think groups like the Chamber of commerce and the JCs are probably better at doing a lot of the leg work in working with new businsses than the government.
 
Probably be kind of boring though. :lol:

Are you kidding? Americans love crazy poor people. Think about all the criminally frauds you could put on television in the process of going hysterical and raging at The Man for taking away what They Were Owed.
 
Definitely apply. You've paid in to the system and "earned" the right. Perhaps the unemployment monies will tide you over while you start a business or who knows what?
 
The bottom line is people will have to start tightening their belts. The one item that makes me think of this story on CNN

I'm praying for a job - Help! My unemployment benefits just expired - CNNMoney

First, he bought a house in 2006, lost his job in 2012 and rejected relocation to keep working and has fallen on hard times. His decision to not relocate in retrospect was a bad one especially since he's got health issues, is 60 years old and has a limited skill set. He's looking for the government stipend to let him keep his house without working though he claims he's sent out 84 resumes with little to no prospects. Proactively, he should probably sell his house without taking the foreclosure hit, downsize to something less expensive like a condo or townhouse, and he may have to take a job which is not in his skill set. They may have to eat less and crunch the numbers to make ends meet. Welfare is an option yet that's just moving from one government subsidy to another. It does make me feel bad for these folks - but I don't know the whole story and even if I did, EUB are not supposed to be a welfare substitute. People need to plan better and not depend on handouts and they need to do this earlier in life. Yes, some get caught no matter how much planning and saving they do and fall on hard times which is why welfare was created - yet I'd bet that this guy would rather take welfare than have to work at Walmart as a greeter, or get a job for $10 an hour in Home Depot.

Yes but unemployment is based on taxation of employees and employers. It's not really a "hand-out" at all. You pay into it, and if you've paid in enough, you are entitled to collect some when you need to. As far as extensions go, I'm not really sure how those are funded.
 
Are you kidding? Americans love crazy poor people. Think about all the criminally frauds you could put on television in the process of going hysterical and raging at The Man for taking away what They Were Owed.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of reality shows. There are way too many.
 
I think you are correct.



:( Sad.

As of Jan 15 I am out of a job as well, and don't have another one lined up yet (stupid holiday season). If I hit that date without anything, I'm wondering if I should apply, given that I have savings.

You should apply.
 
Personally, I'm sick and tired of reality shows. There are way too many.

Look, if we are rotting out the people's brains, desensitizing their souls to the suffering of others, and turning destructive criminal behavior into amusing sport rather than something to be shunned..... but can also make oodles of money off of it?!?

Cmon Chris - it's the American Way! :mrgreen: :lol: :sigh: :(
 
Yeah, you're probably right. Pretty jaded outlook. But that is how people evaluate these programs, like it or not.

I know one woman who, at 63, lost her job, and began collecting partial SS and unemployment (for the maximum). She never looked for work. When her benefits ran out, she began collecting her full SS. Very well thought out and not what the system was designed for.

Two other people signed up as soon as they lost their jobs and started their own businesses. Used unemployment as their safety net while they started up their companies. Again, not what it was designed for. They never looked for jobs. When one's unemployment ran out, he had built himself a successful business. (The money was taken in in his wife's name while he was receiving it.) The other got a "real job" immediately after his benefits ran out. While both of these people were collecting, they were not looking for jobs.

I know two or three other people who got jobs in cash businesses and continued collecting their benefits until they ran out. Then went 'on the books'.

I know damned well the system is mightily abused. And I also know damned well that it's sorely needed. *shrug*

I don't see anything wrong with each of those scenarios. The gov't subsidized the guy building the business with unemployment and now he is a business and a taxpayer and may even have employees paying taxes. A success story for unemployment. The 63 year old woman probably never drew unemployment before in her life and was well-advised by her counselors. It always takes time for "cash businesses" to succeed and also takes entrepreneurial skills to get started. Its just temporary subsidization and a hell of a lot better than giving JP Morgan Chase or GE or Haliburton or Exxon/Mobil another thin dime. If you want to cry about subsidization, look at the Corporate Welfare Queens where the big monies are stolen. Repair the big problem first, then the small problem.
 
Yes but unemployment is based on taxation of employees and employers. It's not really a "hand-out" at all. You pay into it, and if you've paid in enough, you are entitled to collect some when you need to. As far as extensions go, I'm not really sure how those are funded.

You only pay into it so much though....the extension to (is it 26 or 29 months?) goes beyond what was paid into it and when that happens it's just another welfare model. It seems though that in the old days (I know that sounds bad) you had to drag your ass down to the unemployment office, prove you had interviews, proved you made an attempt at getting work and then got your check. This happened weekly. Today you just send an email - how much checking is really done? The other thing is, people are holding out for a job in their area. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing but at month 20, if they're not getting hits, it's time to start downgrading their expectations and getting work where they can. Too many, from my observations, are holding out for their $60k job that just isn't materializing and are insulted when confronted with a $24k job at a brick and mortar store.
 
But I do not (as of yet) require it to survive or feed/house/clothe my family.

The reason for unemployment compensation is a hand up. Either you or your employer pays for it depending upon your state. You aren't meant to exhaust your savings/emergency funds before applying for it. If you are genuinely unemployed and looking for work? There's no moral high ground here. If you are entitled to it and collect it honestly? You'd be a fool to not take advantage of it.
 
The reason for unemployment compensation is a hand up. Either you or your employer pays for it depending upon your state. You aren't meant to exhaust your savings/emergency funds before applying for it. If you are genuinely unemployed and looking for work? There's no moral high ground here. If you are entitled to it and collect it honestly? You'd be a fool to not take advantage of it.
I have noticed that some folks will not do this until it's absolutely required, and I appreciate that view. I wish those currently milking the system had the same perspective, and maybe we wouldn't be in this quandary. Then again, if the economy was as healthy as many claim, there'd be plenty of jobs and the problem could largely be dismissed. There will always be those who abuse whatever is available to them, and we will never make people honest. That's a personal endeavor that government systems will never correct. I do agree that the military in particular should not have to expend hard gained savings in order to survive until employment is found. They've already offered their lives. What more should be required?
 
I'd say when the unemployment runs out like this, we're soon going to see an increase in the employment numbers.

The only person I know who uses unemployment as it's supposed to be used is a guy in construction. Everyone else I know who uses it? Take it for a paid vacation.

A "paid vacation" is incidentally the same way I used it — when I was employed in pipeline construction. :lol:
 
You only pay into it so much though....the extension to (is it 26 or 29 months?) goes beyond what was paid into it and when that happens it's just another welfare model. It seems though that in the old days (I know that sounds bad) you had to drag your ass down to the unemployment office, prove you had interviews, proved you made an attempt at getting work and then got your check. This happened weekly. Today you just send an email - how much checking is really done? The other thing is, people are holding out for a job in their area. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing but at month 20, if they're not getting hits, it's time to start downgrading their expectations and getting work where they can. Too many, from my observations, are holding out for their $60k job that just isn't materializing and are insulted when confronted with a $24k job at a brick and mortar store.

It's the same, just instead of filling out a card, everything is done either over the telephone or on the computer. That's the only difference as far as I know. I don't know where funding comes for unemployment extensions, so I can't comment on that.
 
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