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Legal drinking age?

What should the legal drinking age be?

  • Bring back Prohibition.

    Votes: 4 4.3%

  • Older than 21. Raise it even higher!

    Votes: 2 2.2%

  • Leave it at 21 (in the USA).

    Votes: 17 18.5%

  • 20

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 19

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • 18

    Votes: 44 47.8%

  • 17

    Votes: 2 2.2%

  • 16

    Votes: 4 4.3%

  • Below 16.

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 15 16.3%
  • Total voters
    92
21 for the States (it's their law, after all), but 18 for Federal.

Allowing (since the issues are conflated) military members to drink on-base will reduce the problems and incidents, as well as the need to expend manpower, time, and resources hunting down 19 year olds with a six-pack.
 
ChrisL said:
I've already proven my point well above and beyond anything you have done on this thread. I've posted links supporting my opinions with scientists who have done actual studies which conclusions agree with my assessments about the typical teen brain. It is impossible to study every single teen, so we use the data that we have, and so far it disagrees with your assessments.
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No it doesn't disagree with me at all. It shows problems, that are there despite laws restricting drinking. The same problems that those who are legally allowed to drink face. You haven't proven anything except that yes, teenagers are not that responsible and are willing to break the law to show how irresponsible they are. Instead of making laws to restrict their learning, we need to encourage their learning. It is most likely that the problem of irresponsible drinking has simply been pushed up to older ages, expanding the problem in fact.
 
roguenuke said:
No it doesn't disagree with me at all. It shows problems, that are there despite laws restricting drinking. The same problems that those who are legally allowed to drink face. You haven't proven anything except that yes, teenagers are not that responsible and are willing to break the law to show how irresponsible they are. Instead of making laws to restrict their learning, we need to encourage their learning. It is most likely that the problem of irresponsible drinking has simply been pushed up to older ages, expanding the problem in fact.
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Don't you get it? Most parents are NOT going to do this and it would lead to even MORE carnage on the roads and elsewhere. There is absolutely NO reason to allow children to drink legally. No reason at ALL.
 
I mean seriously! Look at the problems we have NOW. Lowering the drinking age is NOT going to make parents and children more responsible. I can't see how anyone can argue that perspective.
 
ChrisL said:
Don't you get it? Most parents are NOT going to do this and it would lead to even MORE carnage on the roads and elsewhere. There is absolutely NO reason to allow children to drink legally. No reason at ALL.
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Many parents already do. Many parents are already very good at teaching their children to drink responsibly and that is why their children do not become statistics in the teen drinking "problem".
 
cpwill said:
21 for the States (it's their law, after all), but 18 for Federal.

Allowing (since the issues are conflated) military members to drink on-base will reduce the problems and incidents, as well as the need to expend manpower, time, and resources hunting down 19 year olds with a six-pack.
Click to expand...

Although I don't agree with the law for 21, it was done because it is tied to highway funding through the federal government. I don't agree that 18 year olds should be denied being treated as legal adults just because of their age, even by the states, but at the very least, the states should not be basically strongarmed or bribed (whichever you want to look at it) to have their drinking ages at 21.
 
roguenuke said:
I would rather raise the driving age personally.

And no one wants anyone drinking and driving, but laws restricting drinking from all those under 21 does not prevent people, even teens from drinking and driving.
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You would rather raise the driving age? Tell me, how are some teens going to get back and forth to school and work without a car or drivers license? A drivers license is certainly more advantageous than a drinking habit. I think we should allow teens driving through a staged program, kind of like a permit program but more strict. Read this link. There are some very interesting correlations made here.

CDC - Teen Drivers Fact Sheet - Motor Vehicle Safety

However, to lower the drinking age is just completely counterproductive. A really dumb idea IMO.
 
roguenuke said:
Although I don't agree with the law for 21, it was done because it is tied to highway funding through the federal government. I don't agree that 18 year olds should be denied being treated as legal adults just because of their age, even by the states, but at the very least, the states should not be basically strongarmed or bribed (whichever you want to look at it) to have their drinking ages at 21.
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According to most recent studies, they probably should NOT be considered adults until at least age 21, and if you've known many TYPICAL 18-year-olds you might agree.
 
roguenuke said:
Although I don't agree with the law for 21, it was done because it is tied to highway funding through the federal government. I don't agree that 18 year olds should be denied being treated as legal adults just because of their age, even by the states, but at the very least, the states should not be basically strongarmed or bribed (whichever you want to look at it) to have their drinking ages at 21.
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Oh yeah, implicit in the federal govt lowering it's drinking age is that it should also untie highway funds from the state requirement. good catch.
 
ChrisL said:
You would rather raise the driving age? Tell me, how are some teens going to get back and forth to school and work without a car or drivers license? A drivers license is certainly more advantageous than a drinking habit. I think we should allow teens driving through a staged program, kind of like a permit program but more strict. Read this link. There are some very interesting correlations made here.

CDC - Teen Drivers Fact Sheet - Motor Vehicle Safety

However, to lower the drinking age is just completely counterproductive. A really dumb idea IMO.
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Bus, walk, parents, relatives. I haven't had a license my whole life and I make it and have worked. But many accidents that are caused by teens are due to them being teen drivers, not because of alcohol. We can see this in the fact that drinking and driving related teen accidents went down by about 50% while non-alcohol related incidents went up by much higher amounts. Why? Because it wasn't really the alcohol causing the accidents to begin with (for the most part) but rather inexperienced drivers.

But lowering the drinking age to where it should be in the first place is what is right. You can't prove that it would cause any significant problems.

But I wouldn't be opposed to a licensing to drink system either. I have in fact thought of such a program in the past. Giving people a license to purchase alcohol at 18 and restricting that license for any alcohol related incident.
 
Since the minimum age for enlistment in the United States Military is 17 (with parental consent) and 18 (without parental consent) where it is deemed appropriate for a young man to be trained for combat, then he/she should be afforded the right to legally purchase a real beer or enjoy a shot of Jack.
 
roguenuke said:
Bus, walk, parents, relatives. I haven't had a license my whole life and I make it and have worked. But many accidents that are caused by teens are due to them being teen drivers, not because of alcohol. We can see this in the fact that drinking and driving related teen accidents went down by about 50% while non-alcohol related incidents went up by much higher amounts. Why? Because it wasn't really the alcohol causing the accidents to begin with (for the most part) but rather inexperienced drivers.

But lowering the drinking age to where it should be in the first place is what is right. You can't prove that it would cause any significant problems.

But I wouldn't be opposed to a licensing to drink system either. I have in fact thought of such a program in the past. Giving people a license to purchase alcohol at 18 and restricting that license for any alcohol related incident.
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So you think it is more productive to "teach" children to drink than to drive? And if you had your choice, we would start children off drinking at what age?
 
ChrisL said:
According to most recent studies, they probably should NOT be considered adults until at least age 21, and if you've known many TYPICAL 18-year-olds you might agree.
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You won't likely raise the age of legal majority/adulthood though. It simply isn't likely to happen in the near future. I've known plenty of 18 year olds who were quite mature and plenty of over-21 year olds who made some 18 year olds and even 16 year olds look like grandparents.
 
ChrisL said:
According to most recent studies, they probably should NOT be considered adults until at least age 21, and if you've known many TYPICAL 18-year-olds you might agree.
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Wait. Are you suggesting that 18-20 year olds are less mature and have less well-developed self-control mechanisms than 21-30 year olds?
 
ChrisL said:
So you think it is more productive to "teach" children to drink than to drive? And if you had your choice, we would start children off drinking at what age?
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:shrug: I intend to let my children have a drink in my home before they go to college and start drinking at frat parties. One of those strikes me as a better learning environment than the other.
 
roguenuke said:
You won't likely raise the age of legal majority/adulthood though. It simply isn't likely to happen in the near future. I've known plenty of 18 year olds who were quite mature and plenty of over-21 year olds who made some 18 year olds and even 16 year olds look like grandparents.
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I disagree. More and more people are starting to come around to the idea that 18-year-olds are not adults. Perhaps they could have been considered such back in the 1800s when life was much more difficult and people didn't have many options but to become adults as quickly as possible, but that just isn't the case today. There is no need to rush children into a drinking culture. In fact, it is much better for them if they don't drink at all probably.

And please, the nutrition excuse is just pathetic. There are plenty of other sources in which to get nutrition that don't have the detrimental side effects that alcohol has.
 
ChrisL said:
So you think it is more productive to "teach" children to drink than to drive? And if you had your choice, we would start children off drinking at what age?
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When they are in teen years, if they want to. It isn't something that should be forced on someone. But if a teen wants to try alcohol, then they should be allowed to do so in a controlled environment (preferably home or at least with a trusted adult).

Now, I know that it is much more practical to allow teens to drive than to restrict them from doing so. It isn't that hard to figure out that experience is a good driving teacher, making them better drivers in the future. However, the same could still be said for alcohol consumption. Those that learn from their experiences are going to drink responsibly, just as they would drive responsibly.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: I intend to let my children have a drink in my home before they go to college and start drinking at frat parties. One of those strikes me as a better learning environment than the other.
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I would rather teach my child by showing him how stupid drunk people act and how foolish they are, how they kill themselves slowly and painfully and hurt everyone around them, and hope that my child would never touch it. I don't have a problem with moderation but a lot of people are apparently not capable of that. That is obvious.

Your child is going to be either responsible or not responsible and introducing him to drinking isn't going to change that.
 
ChrisL said:
I disagree. More and more people are starting to come around to the idea that 18-year-olds are not adults. Perhaps they could have been considered such back in the 1800s when life was much more difficult and people didn't have many options but to become adults as quickly as possible, but that just isn't the case today. There is no need to rush children into a drinking culture. In fact, it is much better for them if they don't drink at all probably.

And please, the nutrition excuse is just pathetic. There are plenty of other sources in which to get nutrition that don't have the detrimental side effects that alcohol has.
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Not from the numbers I've seen. Even looking at this poll, most people believe teens should be allowed access to alcohol younger than 21.
 
roguenuke said:
When they are in teen years, if they want to. It isn't something that should be forced on someone. But if a teen wants to try alcohol, then they should be allowed to do so in a controlled environment (preferably home or at least with a trusted adult).

Now, I know that it is much more practical to allow teens to drive than to restrict them from doing so. It isn't that hard to figure out that experience is a good driving teacher, making them better drivers in the future. However, the same could still be said for alcohol consumption. Those that learn from their experiences are going to drink responsibly, just as they would drive responsibly.
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Okay, again, this is NOT Candy Land. Teens are going to drink with their friends at unsupervised parties. :roll: My God!!!
 
roguenuke said:
Not from the numbers I've seen. Even looking at this poll, most people believe teens should be allowed access to alcohol younger than 21.
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And they'll be sorry. The FACT is that 18-year-olds are just not adults. They are naturally risk takers. You can deny this all day, but it doesn't change the facts.
 
ChrisL said:
I would rather teach my child by showing him how stupid drunk people act and how foolish they are, how they kill themselves slowly and painfully and hurt everyone around them, and hope that my child would never touch it. I don't have a problem with moderation but a lot of people are apparently not capable of that. That is obvious.
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Just to point out - the two highlighted sections are somewhat mutually exclusive. Do you not have a problem with your child drinking in moderation, or do you want him to never touch the stuff?

Your child is going to be either responsible or not responsible and introducing him to drinking isn't going to change that.
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It's not magic or genes. Children are responsible when they are taught to be responsible. As I intend to teach my children, including with alcohol, vehicles, finances, other people, firearms, etc.
 
ChrisL said:
I would rather teach my child by showing him how stupid drunk people act and how foolish they are, how they kill themselves slowly and painfully and hurt everyone around them, and hope that my child would never touch it. I don't have a problem with moderation but a lot of people are apparently not capable of that. That is obvious.

Your child is going to be either responsible or not responsible and introducing him to drinking isn't going to change that.
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If you are allowing your children to drink to the point of being "stupidly drunk" then that is not teaching them responsible drinking. But completely sheltering them from it or only showing the bad will confuse them once they are out on their own. They will get conflicting information and likely wish to see which is more accurate, leading to stupid decisions being made and no experience for dealing with things.
 
cpwill said:
Just to point out - the two highlighted sections are somewhat mutually exclusive. Do you not have a problem with your child drinking in moderation, or do you want him to never touch the stuff?



It's not magic or genes. Children are responsible when they are taught to be responsible. As I intend to teach my children, including with alcohol, vehicles, finances, other people, firearms, etc.
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The problem is, alcohol is an addictive poison. A firearm is not. A vehicle is not. Finances are not. Do you understand that?
 
ChrisL said:
Okay, again, this is NOT Candy Land. Teens are going to drink with their friends at unsupervised parties. :roll: My God!!!
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So, in other words, unless they learn how to drink at home, they will be learning how to drink at unsupervised teen parties? And you think that the second is preferable to the first?
 
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