Legal drinking age?

loader said:

By age 21, young people can buy alcohol, tobacco, vote and serve in the army. Not before. We have to give them time to become men.

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Raise the age to 70, and we'll have fewer wars, more responsible voting, and less abuse of alcohol and tobacco.

roguenuke said:

Since I still don't have a license in my thirties, I'd pick the drinking. But in reality, teens still do both and it is more likely that they would be doing both when unsupervised because they are trying to hide their drinking and/or have no one to show them how to drink responsibly rather than restricting them from drinking til they are out of their parents' house, likely in college, where most of the drinking is going to be at parties and is going to be majorly irresponsible.

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Since the question was about the legal drinking age, I was proposing a solution. If the discussion becomes about a test for being responsible, I'll address that then. As for you not having your license, good luck on your next try.

roguenuke said:

Having been that 18 year old in the military, I can tell you that we don't wait til we are 21 to drink. I was drinking while in school (my school was 18 months long, part of which was in an area where every student lived offbase, in our own apartments/houses in NY for 6 months, lots of parties, and many of us lived with someone who was old enough to purchase alcohol). Most 18 year olds are more than capable of drinking responsibly. Sure there are some idiots who can't, but they are going to do it whether the law says they should or not. The guy we had drown while in school wasn't saved because of the current drinking laws and stronger enforcement wouldn't have done squat. Underage drinking wasn't responsible for his death, drinking and doing something stupid was, something which is not limited by age. We tried prohibition. It failed miserably.

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You are correct. I was drinking when I was 15 years old. And many who join the military at 18 have already had alcohol as well. But I garuntee you that the threat of being kicked out for underage drinking does prevent many from drinking who would otherwise drink if that policy was not around. When these kids are in basic, technical school and at their first base, they live in dorm rooms. The dorm rooms are regularly inspected and if alcohol is found they are immediately given an article 15. That is a HUGE deterent that keeps many young military members from drinking. And if they do drink, it forces them to be responsible enough not to get caught doing it by doing something stupid while being drunk.

The military does not play around with under age drinking, or alcohol in general. If you are an irresponsible drinker, you will find the door quickly hitting yourself in the ass. It has gotten to the point now where even responsible drinkers are feeling the heat.

People seem stuck only on the military aspect of this. What about the voting aspect? If you are mature enough to vote for who runs the govt be it local, state or federal why are you not considered mature enough to drink? Personally I cannot fathom how someone would consider drinking a bigger responsibility than voting.

I dont think there is any diffrence between putting the line between ages 18-21 therefore i prefer to set the line at age 18.
Why 18 years old guy cant drink beer or voting? responsibility? and when he will be 21 years old he will be more responsible?

You're allowed to join the military at 17, so should you be allowed to drink.

Quag said:

People seem stuck only on the military aspect of this. What about the voting aspect? If you are mature enough to vote for who runs the govt be it local, state or federal why are you not considered mature enough to drink? Personally I cannot fathom how someone would consider drinking a bigger responsibility than voting.

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You should be able to vote at 17 as well, again, if you're allowed to join the military, you should be able to drink and vote. (As shown by the last 2 Presidential elections, not in that order necessarily)

AliHajiSheik said:

Since the question was about the legal drinking age, I was proposing a solution. If the discussion becomes about a test for being responsible, I'll address that then. As for you not having your license, good luck on your next try.

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You make the mistake of assuming that I have ever taken a driver's test.

Capster78 said:

You are correct. I was drinking when I was 15 years old. And many who join the military at 18 have already had alcohol as well. But I garuntee you that the threat of being kicked out for underage drinking does prevent many from drinking who would otherwise drink if that policy was not around. When these kids are in basic, technical school and at their first base, they live in dorm rooms. The dorm rooms are regularly inspected and if alcohol is found they are immediately given an article 15. That is a HUGE deterent that keeps many young military members from drinking. And if they do drink, it forces them to be responsible enough not to get caught doing it by doing something stupid while being drunk.

The military does not play around with under age drinking, or alcohol in general. If you are an irresponsible drinker, you will find the door quickly hitting yourself in the ass. It has gotten to the point now where even responsible drinkers are feeling the heat.

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Since there isn't such a great threat to being kicked out, I don't think it really is a threat. Sure, it makes people much more likely to drink responsibly, to have that threat of being punished for it if caught, but everyone I knew in the military prior to turning 21 (with only a few exceptions) drank before they were 21. My husband lived in Marine Corps barracks and still found ways to drink underage (we met just a few months after he turned 21 and he had plenty of stories). I drank while I was in my first part of training, while still living in the BEQs (in the parking lot of Charlotte Colosseum with about 14 guys from my class, at least 10 of which were underage like me). It is ridiculous to assume that military members would not be responsible drinkers simply because there is a new drinking age of 18.

If you are an irresponsible drinker in the military at all, no matter your age, you will have major problems. I have met plenty of soldiers, sailors, and marines (don't know a whole lot of airmen) who were over 21 and still got into plenty of trouble for drinking problems, including one who ended up killing someone during a barfight after he had been drinking. Heck, my mother's job in the Army back in the '70s was to evaluate soldiers for drinking problems and she told me she recommended putting out 3 soldiers during that time, all of which were higher ups (E-6 and above). I'd say they are much more of a problem than people drinking under the age of 21, whether legal or not.

ChezC3 said:

You're allowed to join the military at 17, so should you be allowed to drink.

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With parents' permission. You can't actually join if your parents don't sign the paperwork until you are 18. My parents had to sign for me.

roguenuke said:

With parents' permission. You can't actually join if your parents don't sign the paperwork until you are 18. My parents had to sign for me.

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As mine did me. Still, once the name goes on the dotted line...

ChezC3 said:

As mine did me. Still, once the name goes on the dotted line...

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And there are states where you can drink before even the age of 18 if your parents approve/are there, depending on the state.

roguenuke said:

And there are states where you can drink before even the age of 18 if your parents approve/are there, depending on the state.

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I...did not know that...(in my best Johnny Carson voice)

shrubnose said:

Quite simply wrong.

Raising the drinking age to 21 lowered traffic accidents and related deaths all over the USA.

No one is forced to join the USA's all-volunteer military.

Allowing young people to drink alcohol is a totally unrelated issue which impacts everyone who uses our nation's highway's and roads.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

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Raising the drinking age to 30 or 40 or even 50 would have the same effect....probably even greater. Case closed?

disneydude said:

Raising the drinking age to 30 or 40 or even 50 would have the same effect....probably even greater. Case closed?

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Ignore what Europeans think about America's laws, man.

They don't matter.

I can just imagine the carnage on the roads if we lower the drinking age.

ChrisL said:

I can just imagine the carnage on the roads if we lower the drinking age.

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I doubt it would change much. Kids are going to drink regardless of what the drinking age is. Those who are going to drink and drive are going to do so. The key is education.

disneydude said:

I doubt it would change much. Kids are going to drink regardless of what the drinking age is. Those who are going to drink and drive are going to do so. The key is education.

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Of course it would. Don't be silly.

disneydude said:

Raising the drinking age to 30 or 40 or even 50 would have the same effect....probably even greater.

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Probably so, but that's probably not going to happen.

A lot of 30-40-50-year old people enjoy a drink every now and then.

I am not a fan of the "graduated adult" standard. One is either of adult age or they are not, telling someone they can make major life decisions such as getting married, signing contracts with full responsibility, serving in a theater of war(being responsible for thousands or more dollars of military equipment), but then saying they "aren't mature enough" to have a beer, gamble in a casino, own a handgun, etc. is ridiculous.

All of those things require a mature mind and a weighing of consequence, either one is capable of those decisions in full or they are not. Pick either 18 or 21 and be done with it.

ChrisL said:

I can just imagine the carnage on the roads if we lower the drinking age.

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Honestly, a lot of kids start drinking because it's considered the "adult" thing to do. I think we would make more inroads by encouraging them to learn that alcohol consumption requires responsibility rather than creating a false standard acceptable age. The French have a culture to where kids start to have a glass of wine with their parents at young ages, Europe has a lower drinking age, and overall they have less alcohol related problems. I think the big thing is we create a mystery around the substance and in a perverted way entice kids to over imbibe when they can get their hands on it. If we would take a more open approach to slowly introducing kids to it they would treat it with more responsibility.

LaMidRighter said:

Honestly, a lot of kids start drinking because it's considered the "adult" thing to do. I think we would make more inroads by encouraging them to learn that alcohol consumption requires responsibility rather than creating a false standard acceptable age. The French have a culture to where kids start to have a glass of wine with their parents at young ages, Europe has a lower drinking age, and overall they have less alcohol related problems. I think the big thing is we create a mystery around the substance and in a perverted way entice kids to over imbibe when they can get their hands on it. If we would take a more open approach to slowly introducing kids to it they would treat it with more responsibility.

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The fact is that kids here in America like to party. In places like Russia where there is really no enforced drinking age, alcoholism is a HUGE problem.

LaMidRighter said:

I am not a fan of the "graduated adult" standard. One is either of adult age or they are not, telling someone they can make major life decisions such as getting married, signing contracts with full responsibility, serving in a theater of war(being responsible for thousands or more dollars of military equipment), but then saying they "aren't mature enough" to have a beer, gamble in a casino, own a handgun, etc. is ridiculous.

All of those things require a mature mind and a weighing of consequence, either one is capable of those decisions in full or they are not.

Pick either 18 or 21 and be done with it.

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The USA has picked 21 as the age to let people start buying alcohol and that will likely not change anytime soon.

LaMidRighter said:

Honestly, a lot of kids start drinking because it's considered the "adult" thing to do. I think we would make more inroads by encouraging them to learn that alcohol consumption requires responsibility rather than creating a false standard acceptable age. The French have a culture to where kids start to have a glass of wine with their parents at young ages, Europe has a lower drinking age, and overall they have less alcohol related problems. I think the big thing is we create a mystery around the substance and in a perverted way entice kids to over imbibe when they can get their hands on it. If we would take a more open approach to slowly introducing kids to it they would treat it with more responsibility.

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Don't forget that alcohol is LITERALLY a poison. When you drink alcohol, you are actually poisoning yourself, hence the "high."

Demographic[edit]
See also: Demographics of Russia

A study by Russian, British and French researchers published in The Lancet scrutinized deaths between 1990 and 2001 of residents of three Siberian industrial towns with typical mortality rates and determined that 52% of deaths of people between the ages of 15 and 54 were the result of alcohol abuse.[11] Lead researcher Professor David Zaridze estimated that the increase in alcohol consumption since 1987 has caused an additional three million deaths nationwide.[11]

In 2007, Gennadi Onishenko, the country's chief public health official, voiced his concern over the nearly threefold rise in alcohol consumption over the past 16 years; one in eight deaths was attributed to alcohol-related diseases, playing a major role in Russia's population decline.[9] Men are particularly hard hit; according to a U.N. National Human Development Report, Russian males born in 2006 had a life expectancy of just over 60 years, 17 fewer than western Europeans, while Russian females could expect to live thirteen years longer than their male counterparts.[12]

In June 2009, the Public Chamber of Russia reported over 500,000 alcohol-related deaths annually, noting that Russians consume about 18 litres (4.0 imp gal; 4.8 US gal) of spirits a year, more than double the 8 litres (1.8 imp gal; 2.1 US gal) World Health Organization experts consider dangerous.[13]

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ChrisL said:

Don't forget that alcohol is LITERALLY a poison. When you drink alcohol, you are actually poisoning yourself, hence the "high."

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Everything you ingest and has pharmacological action is literally a poison.

The dose makes the poison.