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Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?


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AGENT J

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Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

Yes
No
I love mashed potatoes
Roasted Garlic Mashed Potatoes2.jpg

Now let me be clear what Im asking. The fact is we have national equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws. Then on top of that states, counties, cities, towns, corporations and many orgs have minimum these same laws/rules/ordinances and policies but also expand them in different ways.

Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

With these laws and protections of rights factually in place for all the other categories and factually in place in Colorado did the judge rule properly?

If you think all equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws shouldn’t exist, this ain’t the thread for you because that isn’t the topic.;)
I want to know if people think the judge made the right ruling based on facts and law.

We can discuss if you think orientation should be grouped with the others though.

Here’s some quotes from his ruling.:
I haven’t found the whole ruling yet, id really like to read it if anybody has it please post it and or let me know.
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“The undisputed facts show that Respondents (Phillips) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage,” Judge Spencer wrote."

The order says the cake-maker mustcease and desist from discriminatingagainst gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.Judge Spencer shot down the constitutional arguments, noting that the Supreme Court has "repeatedly found" that those engaged in commercial activity are subject to state discrimination laws, regardless of their religious beliefs. "Conceptually, refusal to serve a same-sex couple due to religious objection to same-sex weddings is no different from refusing to serve a biracial couple because of religious objection to biracial marriage," wrote Judge Spencer.

"At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses," Spence wrote. "This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are."
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Now for me this is pretty easy,this is about illegal discrimination and violating rights and nothing else.

Its factual a matter of civil/legal/equal rights as supported by law, rights, court cases, court precedence, constitutions and even the ruling above vs illegal discrimination.

In the public realm we all have laws and rules we must follow, we all have rights, and they are the same for ALL OF US. Nobody gets special treatment nobody gets to break the law and infringe on the rights of others.

The owner CHOSE to get a business license and agree to its terms and follow the rules and laws that come with that.
The owner CHOSE to commit a crime and break law and he had to face the consequences of that.

In reality he actually got off light, he broke the law and violated the rights of others and was simply given a cease and desist order to not longer break the law and illegal discriminate.

Now he was asked if he would be willing to go to jail over this and he said “You know if that’s what it takes, I guess I would be,” well, happy trails Jack because that’s is where criminals tend to end up when they get caught breaking the law.

Sorry he is entitled to his opinion but as a Christian myself I see zero logic in breaking the law and zero wrong with selling cake to gays, theres nothing sinful about that. This is simply very stupid and poor foresight and Jack has nobody to blame but himself.

It actually blows my mind that SOME of the same people that don’t accept religion as a reason to break the law, illegally discriminate and violate equal rights some how magically think its ok when it comes to "queers faggots and dykes” treat them as a lesser and give them the same rights we all have or at least protect them. How absurd, and severely transparent those particular people are.

Links:
Judge orders baker to serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs | Fox News
Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
Judge orders Colorado baker to serve gay couples - U.S. News
Court Rules Bakery Illegally Discriminated Against Gay Couple | ACLU - Colorado
Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater for Same-Sex Weddings - ABC News
Judge Rules Colorado Bakery Discriminated Against Gay Couple - WSJ.com
Cake Shop Owner Tells Fox News He
It Was Never About the Cake | Deborah Munn
Colorado Judge: Bakery That Refused Wedding Cake To Same-Sex Couple Broke The Law | ThinkProgress
 
Last edited:
Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

Yes
No
I love mashed potatoes
View attachment 67158094

Now let me be clear what Im asking. The fact is we have national equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws. Then on top of that states, counties, cities, towns, corporations and many orgs have minimum these same laws/rules/ordinances and policies but also expand them in different ways.

Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

With these laws and protections of rights factually in place for all the other categories and factually in place in Colorado did the judge rule properly?

If you think all equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws shouldn’t exist, this ain’t the thread for you because that isn’t the topic.;)
I want to know if people think the judge made the right ruling based on facts and law.

We can discuss if you think orientation should be grouped with the others though.

Here’s some quotes from his ruling.:
I haven’t found the whole ruling yet, id really like to read it if anybody has it please post it and or let me know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“The undisputed facts show that Respondents (Phillips) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage,” Judge Spencer wrote."

The order says the cake-maker mustcease and desist from discriminatingagainst gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.Judge Spencer shot down the constitutional arguments, noting that the Supreme Court has "repeatedly found" that those engaged in commercial activity are subject to state discrimination laws, regardless of their religious beliefs. "Conceptually, refusal to serve a same-sex couple due to religious objection to same-sex weddings is no different from refusing to serve a biracial couple because of religious objection to biracial marriage," wrote Judge Spencer.

"At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses," Spence wrote. "This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for me this is pretty easy,this is about illegal discrimination and violating rights and nothing else.

Its factual a matter of civil/legal/equal rights as supported by law, rights, court cases, court precedence, constitutions and even the ruling above vs illegal discrimination.

In the public realm we all have laws and rules we must follow, we all have rights, and they are the same for ALL OF US. Nobody gets special treatment nobody gets to break the law and infringe on the rights of others.

The owner CHOSE to get a business license and agree to its terms and follow the rules and laws that come with that.
The owner CHOSE to commit a crime and break law and he had to face the consequences of that.

In reality he actually got off light, he broke the law and violated the rights of others and was simply given a cease and desist order to not longer break the law and illegal discriminate.

Now he was asked if he would be willing to go to jail over this and he said “You know if that’s what it takes, I guess I would be,” well, happy trails Jack because that’s is where criminals tend to end up when they get caught breaking the law.

Sorry he is entitled to his opinion but as a Christian myself I see zero logic in breaking the law and zero wrong with selling cake to gays, theres nothing sinful about that. This is simply very stupid and poor foresight and Jack has nobody to blame but himself.

It actually blows my mind that SOME of the same people that don’t accept religion as a reason to break the law, illegally discriminate and violate equal rights some how magically think its ok when it comes to "queers faggots and dykes” treat them as a lesser and give them the same rights we all have or at least protect them. How absurd, and severely transparent those particular people are.

Links:
Judge orders baker to serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs | Fox News
Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
Judge orders Colorado baker to serve gay couples - U.S. News
Court Rules Bakery Illegally Discriminated Against Gay Couple | ACLU - Colorado
Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater for Same-Sex Weddings - ABC News
Judge Rules Colorado Bakery Discriminated Against Gay Couple - WSJ.com
Cake Shop Owner Tells Fox News He
It Was Never About the Cake | Deborah Munn
Colorado Judge: Bakery That Refused Wedding Cake To Same-Sex Couple Broke The Law | ThinkProgress

It seems pretty open and shut to me.
 
It seems pretty open and shut to me.

Thats the way i feel about it but it seems some think its the end of the world and the judge went rogue. I believe the words were he must be just an extreme, lefty, liberal judge that hates religion, is ruling on his feelings, doesnt care about peoples rights and he is ignoring the constitution or something like that.

But i was hoping for more rational insight, even if people didnt agree, as long as its calm, honest and rational its welcome.
 
Thats the way i feel about it but it seems some think its the end of the world and the judge went rogue. I believe the words were he must be just an extreme, lefty, liberal judge that hates religion, is ruling on his feelings, doesnt care about peoples rights and he is ignoring the constitution or something like that.

But i was hoping for more rational insight, even if people didnt agree, as long as its calm, honest and rational its welcome.

There are just some issues where a person/s can sit down and think things through logically. Gay marriage and rights are one of those. It is all knee jerk. All of this stuff could be avoided if humans would treat other humans as the human beings they are. We are mighty mean to others of our own species.
 
There are just some issues where a person/s can sit down and think things through logically. Gay marriage and rights are one of those. It is all knee jerk. All of this stuff could be avoided if humans would treat other humans as the human beings they are. We are mighty mean to others of our own species.

Amen Brother, Amen :applaud

yes for some that is simply to hard for them, the have to be and need to be "better" some how
 
There are just some issues where a person/s can sit down and think things through logically. Gay marriage and rights are one of those. It is all knee jerk. All of this stuff could be avoided if humans would treat other humans as the human beings they are. We are mighty mean to others of our own species.

An odd thing about that thread...or perhaps topic...is that people saw being against gays...or even specifically supporting gay marriage...as 'moral' issues but didnt see racism as a moral issue. All I could think of is it wasnt a moral issue 'for them.' And dont remember when it was a big deal and a moral issue for alot of people.

The good thing is....IMO anti-discrimination laws and the acceptance and integration of blacks into society is what brought alot of that change in attitudes about.
 
An odd thing about that thread...or perhaps topic...is that people saw being against gays...or even specifically supporting gay marriage...as 'moral' issues but didnt see racism as a moral issue. All I could think of is it wasnt a moral issue 'for them.' And dont remember when it was a big deal and a moral issue for alot of people.

The good thing is....IMO anti-discrimination laws and the acceptance and integration of blacks into society is what brought alot of that change in attitudes about.

I agree 100%, the fact his now and in history many people use/d religion to justify discrimination and unequal treatment for slavery, minorities, women other religions etc and that excuse didnt fly then and doesnt fly now but some how for gays it does? it makes no sense this si why its so hypocritical and illogical to try and separate sexual orientation from other things.
 
An odd thing about that thread...or perhaps topic...is that people saw being against gays...or even specifically supporting gay marriage...as 'moral' issues but didnt see racism as a moral issue. All I could think of is it wasnt a moral issue 'for them.' And dont remember when it was a big deal and a moral issue for alot of people.

The good thing is....IMO anti-discrimination laws and the acceptance and integration of blacks into society is what brought alot of that change in attitudes about.

Yeah, I can remember as a kid going into town and seeing all white this and all black that and didn't think a thing about it. Well, colored was the word. I agree.
 
Amen Brother, Amen :applaud

yes for some that is simply to hard for them, the have to be and need to be "better" some how

I think in some ways we have come a long way since I was a kid in the 1950's and in others I think we have stepped backwards. Sometimes I just don't know.
 
I think in some ways we have come a long way since I was a kid in the 1950's and in others I think we have stepped backwards. Sometimes I just don't know.

I agree with this also


we have come a very long way since when i was kid too. I always wonder how my dad(black) and mom(white) ever grew up in this world/country and turned out to be such civil, level headed people. People of patience, people of civility, people of happiness and restraint first.

I like to think i could have done what they did but i dont know if i could ifI grew up when they did.

I mean my uncle lost an eye and almost his life simply walking a different way home one day. Some racist saw him started beating him and and even plucked out his eye, it was something some people did, collected nigger eyes???? luckily some NORMAL people saw this and stopped it, but no arrests, no consequences, just a boy who now only has one eye.

My aunt was kidnapped by the dog catcher, my grandfather and dad saw it happen and they chased the guy down and caught up to him. a fight broke out between my grandfather and the dog catcher and he beat the guy up. Cops showed and almost arrested and beat my grandfather until they heard my aunt screaming form inside one of ther dog cages built into the side of the truck. After that they figured out what happened and believed my grandfather. Again no arrests just an "ok boy now take your daughter and get on out of here". And the crazy part is they were LUCKY, had different cops showed up they wouldnt have accepted any excuse for a black man fighting a white man.

My mom white was fired two different times after they saw here with my dad, they were kicked out of numerous places and my dad was arrested one time just for being with her on suspicion until they talked to other members of the family.

I cant even imagine living in a world like that, its impossible to me to ever think that things like that ever happened.

Yet i was NEVER taught to use race as an excuse or that white people are evil etc. I was never taught to prejudge people based on anything as stupid as gender, race, religion, sexual orientation etc

It just always amazes me and makes me so very proud that they LIVED that, they didnt read it in a book, they LIVED IT and yet never developed a chip on their shoulders. I dont know if i could do what they did. How to you swim and nearly drown in a world of ignorance and crulity and evil like that and come out smiling.

I have experienced and witnessed tons of racism in my life, and i live through that fine and easy because im the same way as my parents BUT it doesn't compare to what they went through at all.

THIS is one of the reasons i could NEVER be so selfish, evil and or bigoted to deny my fellow Americans the same rights and protections i have. I think its utterly disgusting as a human to be like that and even more so as an american. Its pathetic and there's no excuse to be so uncivil, selfish, bigoted and malicious. Theres no logic to support it. Its all the same stuff just a different victim and recycled BS excuses.

anyway im done venting :D lol

as for where we have taken steps back that is easy. Its in all the little groups that have nothing better to do and cry over everything when its not real. They are part of the problem.

For example what do you think a show like all in the family would do today, all these crybaby groups would probably have a fit and INVENT situations.
 
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To answer it as a legal question, you have to post the statute for that state.
 
I agree with this also


we have come a very long way since when i was kid too. I always wonder how my dad(black) and mom(white) ever grew up in this world/country and turned out to be such civil, level headed people. People of patience, people of civility, people of happiness and restraint first.

I like to think i could have done what they did but i dont know if i could ifI grew up when they did.

I mean my uncle lost an eye and almost his life simply walking a different way home one day. Some racist saw him started beating him and and even plucked out his eye, it was something some people did, collected nigger eyes???? luckily some NORMAL people saw this and stopped it, but no arrests, no consequences, just a boy who now only has one eye.

My aunt was kidnapped by the dog catcher, my grandfather and dad saw it happen and they chased the guy down and caught up to him. a fight broke out between my grandfather and the dog catcher and he beat the guy up. Cops showed and almost arrested and beat my grandfather until they heard my aunt screaming form inside one of ther dog cages built into the side of the truck. After that they figured out what happened and believed my grandfather. Again no arrests just an "ok boy now take your daughter and get on out of here". And the crazy part is they were LUCKY, had different cops showed up they wouldnt have accepted any excuse for a black man fighting a white man.

My mom white was fired two different times after they saw here with my dad, they were kicked out of numerous places and my dad was arrested one time just for being with her on suspicion until they talked to other members of the family.

I cant even imagine living in a world like that, its impossible to me to ever think that things like that ever happened.

Yet i was NEVER taught to use race as an excuse or that white people are evil etc. I was never taught to prejudge people based on anything as stupid as gender, race, religion, sexual orientation etc

It just always amazes me and makes me so very proud that they LIVED that, they didnt read it in a book, they LIVED IT and yet never developed a chip on their shoulders. I dont know if i could do what they did. How to you swim and nearly drown in a world of ignorance and crulity and evil like that and come out smiling.

I have experienced and witnessed tons of racism in my life, and i live through that fine and easy because im the same way as my parents BUT it doesn't compare to what they went through at all.

THIS is one of the reasons i could NEVER be so selfish, evil and or bigoted to deny my fellow Americans the same rights and protections i have. I think its utterly disgusting as a human to be like that and even more so as an american. Its pathetic and there's no excuse to be so uncivil, selfish, bigoted and malicious. Theres no logic to support it. Its all the same stuff just a different victim and recycled BS excuses.

anyway im done venting :D lol

as for where we have taken steps back that is easy. Its in all the little groups that have nothing better to do and cry over everything when its not real. They are part of the problem.

For example what do you think a show like all in the family would do today, all these crybaby groups would probably have a fit and INVENT situations.

Maybe you could if you had to, think of Jackie Robinson and how he had to keep quiet and take what ever was dished out. He had to, you didn't have to. I think that makes a huge difference. But one never knows what they are capable of doing until they have to.

Also vent all you want, some day it will be my turn. I like All in the Family, I thought it was hilarious. You know I watched an episode of Star Trek back in the 60's, the one in which Kirk, a white guy gave Uhura a kiss, a black woman and I never thought anything about it. But the next day I heard a lot of how awfuls it was. I couldn't understand the ruckus. I thank god that I was drafted into the army back in 1966, race for the most part means nothing, we were comrades in arms and brothers and sisters in uniform. I made a career twice out of the military. 20 years and few months active duty and another 26 years as a Department of the Army Civilian.

Try walking into any PX and you will see all sorts of mix race couples, mixed race kids and their kids marrying other of different races. Perhaps this is our future, we all started out as one race and left Africa for the 4 corners of the world. From one race we became many and now, it sure does look as if we are now starting to merge back into that one race. Your dad and mom, me marrying a Thai girl, I'm white. My oldest daughter marrying a Laotian, her oldest daughter is married to a black guy and they have 3 beautiful children, my great grand kids. I also have a son who married a white girl and my youngest married a white guy. 3 kids, 8 grand kids and 3 great grand kids. Not a bad legacy.
 
1.)Maybe you could if you had to, think of Jackie Robinson and how he had to keep quiet and take what ever was dished out. He had to, you didn't have to. I think that makes a huge difference. But one never knows what they are capable of doing until they have to.

2.) Also vent all you want, some day it will be my turn.
3.) I like All in the Family, I thought it was hilarious. You know I watched an episode of Star Trek back in the 60's, the one in which Kirk, a white guy gave Uhura a kiss, a black woman and I never thought anything about it. But the next day I heard a lot of how awfuls it was. I couldn't understand the ruckus. I thank god that I was drafted into the army back in 1966, race for the most part means nothing, we were comrades in arms and brothers and sisters in uniform. I made a career twice out of the military. 20 years and few months active duty and another 26 years as a Department of the Army Civilian.

4.) Try walking into any PX and you will see all sorts of mix race couples, mixed race kids and their kids marrying other of different races. Perhaps this is our future, we all started out as one race and left Africa for the 4 corners of the world. From one race we became many and now, it sure does look as if we are now starting to merge back into that one race. Your dad and mom, me marrying a Thai girl, I'm white. My oldest daughter marrying a Laotian, her oldest daughter is married to a black guy and they have 3 beautiful children, my great grand kids. I also have a son who married a white girl and my youngest married a white guy. 3 kids, 8 grand kids and 3 great grand kids. Not a bad legacy.

1.) well hopefully i never have to find out but yes i hope id be capable
2.) thanks
3.) I loved it too and there was so much like that stuff that was so "taboo" and "evil" thank god were wiser and more educated now eventhough we still have a way to go.

4.) awesome and beautiful, civility and human like its supposed to be. !
 
judge made wrong decision.

a person has no exercisable rights on another person's property.

law, rights, facts, court cases and court precedence all disagree, what "facts" are you basing this opinion on?
 
name for me an exercisable right you have on ANOTHER PERSON'S PROPERTY?

so you have no facts to back up your claim? got it
i will ask again

law, rights, facts, court cases and court precedence all disagree, what "facts" are you basing this opinion on?
 
so you have no facts to back up your claim? got it
i will ask again

law, rights, facts, court cases and court precedence all disagree, what "facts" are you basing this opinion on?

NO..i am asking you a question here, and your not answering it........name for me an exercisable right you have on another persons property.
 
1.) well hopefully i never have to find out but yes i hope id be capable
2.) thanks
3.) I loved it too and there was so much like that stuff that was so "taboo" and "evil" thank god were wiser and more educated now eventhough we still have a way to go.

4.) awesome and beautiful, civility and human like its supposed to be. !

Exactly, love conquers all if one can love. I do think some people never can understand love, to them it is just another 4 letter word, much like hate.
 
NO..i am asking you a question here, and your not answering it........name for me an exercisable right you have on another persons property.
lol make it bigger next time with colors it wont change anything

you made a statement, i pointed out the fact that it was an opinion, then i asked you the question, thats how it works. Dont like it? move along lol ill repeat it one last time.

law, rights, facts, court cases and court precedence all disagree, what "facts" are you basing this opinion on?
 
Exactly, love conquers all if one can love. I do think some people never can understand love, to them it is just another 4 letter word, much like hate.

that so seems to be the case with some
 
second paragraph

Then 2nd paragraph doesn't mention commerce, although I imagine it's there.

Not sure of my opinion on this.
For example, when we traveled to Key West on a holiday weekend, we had not made reservations and came in around midnight. We stopped at at least 2 dozen motels with managers to lazy to turn on the "NO" on their "vacancy" signs. Found a room for $500 (a luxury hotel) and the next night a quaint one in the heart of it. It was a very small old charming hotel specifically for lesbians (really) I don't remember the "coded" language signs at check-in and we hadn't notices those.
The owner at the desk hinted all around it until my wife picked up what she was saying. To this my wife asked to talk to her privately. This resulted in an OK, but that I was not to enter a certain shielded outdoor swimming pool & small bar area. Women could go nude there.

^ Was any of that illegal? Unethical? Not wanting to lease hotel rooms to heterosexuals because the hotel was also geared around gay romance and sexuality in both a wider sense than just as hotel and for a sense of privacy - that gay women only wanted other women galking at and flirting with them in their home-away-from-home? The limited number of rooms meant any room not going to a gay woman or women reduced "the party" of it.
I don't think there was anything wrong it limited those staying to gays.
 
1.) Then 2nd paragraph doesn't mention commerce, although I imagine it's there.

Not sure of my opinion on this.
For example, when we traveled to Key West on a holiday weekend, we had not made reservations and came in around midnight. We stopped at at least 2 dozen motels with managers to lazy to turn on the "NO" on their "vacancy" signs. Found a room for $500 (a luxury hotel) and the next night a quaint one in the heart of it. It was a very small old charming hotel specifically for lesbians (really) I don't remember the "coded" language signs at check-in and we hadn't notices those.
The owner at the desk hinted all around it until my wife picked up what she was saying. To this my wife asked to talk to her privately. This resulted in an OK, but that I was not to enter a certain shielded outdoor swimming pool & small bar area. Women could go nude there.

^ Was any of that illegal? Unethical? Not wanting to lease hotel rooms to heterosexuals because the hotel was also geared around gay romance and sexuality in both a wider sense than just as hotel and for a sense of privacy - that gay women only wanted other women galking at and flirting with them in their home-away-from-home? The limited number of rooms meant any room not going to a gay woman or women reduced "the party" of it.
I don't think there was anything wrong it limited those staying to gays.

public accommodations covers that, while i already knew that, i looked up some info real quick for just an FYI

What does the expanded Colorado
Anti-Discrimination Act now prohibit?


Places of public accommodation may not
deny any person participation, entry, or
services based upon the person’s sexual
orientation, including transgender status.

What is a “place of public accommodation”?

A public accommodation is any place of
business engaged in offering sales or
services of any kind to the public, as well
as any place offering facilities, privileges,
advantages or other accommodations to
the public. Typical examples of public
accommodations include, but are not
limited to, hotels, restaurants, stores,
hospitals, clinics, and health clubs.


2.) i understand but the question is about law and facts vs the rulling fyi
 
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