One way trip to Mars

joko104 said:

OK, Mars. Name anything a station on Mars can do that a probe can't? Anything at all.

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We have NO clue. How about this. What would it take to sustain life? Why don't we discuss that? And THEN we will discuss what potential benefits that would have for the HUMAN RACE?

1) Energy to Get everything There: What could research into that give us? I don't know? A more efficient energy for Earth?
2) Renewable Air Source: Gee how could that help us out? Air filtration?
3) Renewable Water: Well gee? How can we solve our problems with water now?
4) Renewable food: Holy CRAP batman? What would that be like? A possible gain in the ability to feed a population at low cost and easy regeneration? What could that do for a starving planet?
5) Medical Technology: Gee? What would gain over being able to use a cheap, renewable, and efficient medical system?
6) Random: The thousands of other little things we could gain in the process of attempting to grow, let alone sustain, life on another planet could have COUNTLESS impacts on our already rapidly advancing technology. The fact that you don't seem to grasp this is insane. A simple look at history shows that mankind needs a REASON to develop this kind of technology, and it also needs a practical application.

What can a probe not do that a (and I am going to broaden this because life isn't reserved to humans) life could? Determine if it is possible for life to exist on another rock other than Earth. You can scan. You can measure. You can have every little number crunch you want on the atmopheres...but at the end of the day you cannot actually KNOW what all the little factors that could end life in that kind of environment...unless you put life in that EXACT environment.

Here is a Science Experiment that could be conducted:

A small shelter is built on Mars. It houses a few plants (ferns, corn, whatever). They all have their own chambers. All have different environmental factors. All have controlled water and air and all of that. Well what if one plant dies more rapidly than another? Why? What in God's name could we gain from knowing that? Or what if a plant grew better? I mean that simple kind of experiment could be conducted and solve all kinds of human issues.

Now. Yes. It could all be done by probes. Right? Sure. But that is just one step on a road that could lead us to investigation in human life on another planet. The fact is that a probe isn't ALIVE and therefor is limited in the ability to determine whether or not life is ACTUALLY possible...rather than theoretically impossible/possible.

The stopped sending manned probes in deep oceans 5 decades ago. They don't send manned probes down into ancient ice. We don't send manned probes to the Moon for about 5 decades. SO... the reason to send a manned probe to Mars, rather than a robotic one is?

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Progress. It would take many technological developments that could assist human life on Earth...to gain that ability. So why try? Because it would benefit mankind.


Edit:

I would further add to the last bit...the purpose of those probes. Why would you continue to send humans to a location when the only data you are attempting to gather could be gathered with the same remote probe. I am not advocating...and nor is anyone else here...advocating the end of the use of remote probes. In fact in an attempt to design, build, and execute human life in otherwise impossible environment...it would require the development of more "intelligent" and efficient probes to do that.

The race to the moon wasn't about science or space. It was about war, specifically missiles of war, national pride in the terror of Communist Russia. We did get to the moon. We brought back a few pounds of rocks. No shortage of rocks on earth.

A probe could bring us Martian rocks for a fraction of sending people to pick them up and bring them back.

Mason66 said:

We will all be long dead and so will our great grandchildren.

Remember there is no more space program, Obama killed it.

There isn't enough private money out there to accomplish this, and if there was you certainly wouldn't want it spent on this.

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Maybe you wouldn't want money spent on this, but I see this as a very worthwhile project and I just might put a little cash into it.

joko104 said:

The race to the moon wasn't about science or space. It was about war, specifically missiles of war, national pride in the terror of Communist Russia. We did get to the moon. We brought back a few pounds of rocks. No shortage of rocks on earth.

A probe could bring us Martian rocks for a fraction of sending people to pick them up and bring them back.

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Gee. So the ONLY thing gained was missile technology? Or did we gain some other important things along the way? It doesn't change that the space race and moon race gained us scientific knowledge we otherwise would not have received.

stonewall50 said:

We have NO clue. How about this. What would it take to sustain life? Why don't we discuss that? And THEN we will discuss what potential benefits that would have for the HUMAN RACE?

1) Energy to Get everything There: What could research into that give us? I don't know? A more efficient energy for Earth?
2) Renewable Air Source: Gee how could that help us out? Air filtration?
3) Renewable Water: Well gee? How can we solve our problems with water now?
4) Renewable food: Holy CRAP batman? What would that be like? A possible gain in the ability to feed a population at low cost and easy regeneration? What could that do for a starving planet?
5) Medical Technology: Gee? What would gain over being able to use a cheap, renewable, and efficient medical system?
6) Random: The thousands of other little things we could gain in the process of attempting to grow, let alone sustain, life on another planet could have COUNTLESS impacts on our already rapidly advancing technology. The fact that you don't seem to grasp this is insane. A simple look at history shows that mankind needs a REASON to develop this kind of technology, and it also needs a practical application.

What can a probe not do that a (and I am going to broaden this because life isn't reserved to humans) life could? Determine if it is possible for life to exist on another rock other than Earth. You can scan. You can measure. You can have every little number crunch you want on the atmopheres...but at the end of the day you cannot actually KNOW what all the little factors that could end life in that kind of environment...unless you put life in that EXACT environment.

Here is a Science Experiment that could be conducted:

A small shelter is built on Mars. It houses a few plants (ferns, corn, whatever). They all have their own chambers. All have different environmental factors. All have controlled water and air and all of that. Well what if one plant dies more rapidly than another? Why? What in God's name could we gain from knowing that? Or what if a plant grew better? I mean that simple kind of experiment could be conducted and solve all kinds of human issues.

Now. Yes. It could all be done by probes. Right? Sure. But that is just one step on a road that could lead us to investigation in human life on another planet. The fact is that a probe isn't ALIVE and therefor is limited in the ability to determine whether or not life is ACTUALLY possible...rather than theoretically impossible/possible.



Progress. It would take many technological developments that could assist human life on Earth...to gain that ability. So why try? Because it would benefit mankind.

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There is exactly NOTHING you name that could not be done right here on Earth. You don't have to spend trillions to go to another planet to experiment with growing corn, recycling air and water, developing new energy systems, medical technology or any of the rest.

The experiments "in space" were specific. Effects of a no-gravity environment. A station on Mars wouldn't even offer that.

In fact, all but a couple of things you mention are continuously being advanced anyway. DO you REALLY think there is a shortage of science in regards to growing superior crops?

The few that are not - if any, can be pursued in trying to learn more about our oceans, of which less than 10% are known. Hell, the entire bottom of the ocean hasn't even been mapped yet.

If there was merit to your idea, there would be a station on the moon. There isn't. No one in science or astronomy is pushing for one. It would just be a massive money pit sucking money away from legitimate research. A station on the moon would just be an outrageously expensive mobile home you can't leave. And with astronomically expensive and limited delivery and shipping costs. Nothing else. It would offer nothing in research, nor is it "space" because of the gravity.

Why not a station on the moon rather than Mars, if you think being somewhere else matters? Because it's not as cool and because it would unbelievably astronomically more expensive than the moon?

Astronomers lost interest in moon bases fast. They are rapidly losing interest in the space station orbiting earth too. It's just a pain in the ass to get to and extremely limited what can be done there.

Oh, and "space" research is now literally MILLIONS OF LIGHT YEARS past our solar system. Taking about "exploring Mars" is kindergarten astronomy. They got what Mars is made of LONG ago and are way, way past that. The science community in terms of space knowledge would not want a trillion dollars diverted from REAL research exploring the universe.

joko104 said:

No, it isn't "just down the road." How is Mar's rich?

There was a lot of talk and even a couple companies trying to promote mining an asteroid. However, when looked by economists, even if it was made of pure gold and platinum, it doesn't work economically.

I'll ask it again. What can a manned probe do that a remote probe cannot? For size and survivability issues, a remote probe can have 100 times as much equipment and 1/100th the risks - and can stay there and function virtually indefinitely.

Do you have any clue of the challenges, prices and size of a spacecraft that has to support a crew and travel for 1 year (there and back) is? What is your budget for this adventure question? Plus big enough for landing and take off fuel too? $1 Trillion? $3 Trillion? More?

What is rational about not finding out what they might be worth going for and where at least before going there?

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I did not mean that we should jump onboard and head for Mars next year. Robots are undergoing a great deal of real development right now. Maybe we'll send a semi-AI to explore first. We have a rover up there right now looking around. Equipment might have to be sent ahead and constructed by automatons.

I admit to punting on the wealth of Mars. There could be a underground civilization. There could be relics from earlier space-farers, there could be Cat Cafes with really big cats. There could be rare minerals. You can't know until you go.

Maybe in time we won't need so much fuel. Maybe batteries will run space flight. My personal budget is 17 trillion dollars for this project. I don't know where I came up with that number but t sounds like an amount you could borrow. Money is just paper and digits.

stonewall50 said:

But. How could we come near to that ability? Wouldn't it require something? Like experimentation? You know? Attempts at pushing said technologies forward? We make new discoveries every day. Why not try a few out?

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Who is going to do this experimentation?

stonewall50 said:

Wish I could. Correct me if I am wrong...didnt he pretty much cancel investments into programs we had running for years?

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Exactly, that was my point.

He killed the space program so exploring space is pretty much off the table.

specklebang said:

Honestly Mason, I don't know where the air comes from on the Space Station or the Moon Rockets but I assume there is some way to break down other elements to produce air and water. If not, nobody will be going anywhere. It is reasonable to assume that some provision must be made for this. You're not going to Mars in the family Buick. It will require parts to be sent in advance. It will be difficult and expensive.

Think about the first cables they placed across the Atlantic for the early days of telegrams. What a challenge that was in an era with far less development. They had to invent wire. They had to invent a way to make stuff travel across that wire. Today, we speak., 0s and 1s take this and bring it to another phone around the world. How impossible that must have seemed once.

And you may be right. We may never do this. We may stay here until the sun goes dark. But there are a few people who think this is something to be challenged. I support them and believe in them.

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The OP was would you sign up for a one way trip to mars in a couple of years.

How can you argue that a person is not stupid to sign up for a suicide trip like that?

Mason66 said:

The OP was would you sign up for a one way trip to mars in a couple of years.

How can you argue that a person is not stupid to sign up for a suicide trip like that?

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I'm not the OP. I'm not stupid.

This is a philosophical discussion. I promise not to actually leave for Mars unless I'm properly equipped. Honestly, I'm not going to go although it sounds like fun and something I might have done 50 years ago.

This thread is a welcome relief from the all-day, all-night Obama bashing / Obama praising on this board. I thought we were here to have fun and present points of view. If you are taking this seriously, I suppose I must seem stupid to you so I withdraw my request for you to reconsider what seems to be rudeness for no actual purpose.

Mason66 said:

You are really trying to compare the moon and mars?

Didn't your OP say it was a one way trip?

That would mean the first people going there would have to build living quarters with no resources and no air.

I think that is the definition of stupid.

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So what you are saying is that you have no clue what you are talking about?

Will the astronauts have enough water, food and oxygen? - Mars One

"Will the astronauts have enough water, food and oxygen?
Our astronauts will be settling on Mars indefinitely. It's not feasible to send water, oxygen and food from Earth to the astronauts: they will produce those on Mars.

...On Mars, water can be extracted from the soil..............Oxygen can be produced by splitting water into its constituent parts, hydrogen and oxygen....................When the astronauts land, there will be limited rations of food available for them to use. Food from Earth will only serve as emergency rations, the astronauts will eat fresh food that they produce on Mars."

People have actually gave this great thought (unlike you) read the FAQ instead of making a thousand posts showing that you never even bothered to learn about it. FAQ - Mars One

specklebang said:

I'm not the OP. I'm not stupid.

This is a philosophical discussion. I promise not to actually leave for Mars unless I'm properly equipped. Honestly, I'm not going to go although it sounds like fun and something I might have done 50 years ago.

This thread is a welcome relief from the all-day, all-night Obama bashing / Obama praising on this board.

I thought we were here to have fun and present points of view

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. If you are taking this seriously, I suppose I must seem stupid to you so I withdraw my request for you to reconsider what seems to be rudeness for no actual purpose.

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That's what I thought also.

Some people look at everything from a dollars and cents perspective.

Perotista said:

If I wasn't such an old fart, I would be raring to go. This is something I have always dreamed about.

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I'm a land lubber myself.:lol:

I personally would never sign up for Mars . The thought of going in a airplane gets me nervous and the thought of going 24000 mph straight up into and out of the atmosphere makes me feel panicky .

sawyerloggingon said:

I'm a land lubber myself.:lol:

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As a kid of the 50's it seemed the whole universe was open to us, then in the 60's we went to the moon. We just knew a Lunar colony and Mars was next. We expected it to happen within the next decade. So where did we go wrong?

Perotista said:

As a kid of the 50's it seemed the whole universe was open to us, then in the 60's we went to the moon. We just knew a Lunar colony and Mars was next. We expected it to happen within the next decade. So where did we go wrong?

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Two words. Space Shuttle. It soaked up all the money and minds.

Un biased said:

I personally would never sign up for Mars . The thought of going in a airplane gets me nervous and the thought of going 24000 mph straight up into and out of the atmosphere makes me feel panicky .

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Eventually, we'll build a highway and you'll be able to drive to Mars in your flying car.

Some of us, anyway.

Mason66 said:

Everybody going knows they are going to die, hence one way trip.

What risks would matter?

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Those fronting the cash (and then please do not forget the spacecraft they want to use) care about what their money is going toward.

joko104 said:

Even if you couldn't take any of your guns? :lol:

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That would be annoying, yes... but it's not like Mars has a crime problem, and I've heard the hunting sucks. :lamo

shrubnose said:

That's what I thought also.

Some people look at everything from a dollars and cents perspective.

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I come here with my "notions" and I argue my case with the best of my ability and occasional fanciful concepts.

For example, I know that the last Cat Cafe on Mars closed in 12374 CM due to a shortage of willing cats. Yet I mentioned this as possible attraction.

Once I make my case, I welcome dispute and explanation to prove me wrong. But I don't call those who don't agree with me "stupid". I just call them "misguided":roll:

Goshin said:

That would be annoying, yes... but it's not like Mars has a crime problem, and I've heard the hunting sucks. :lamo

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But you would be going with other humans which would be where the danger would lie.

sawyerloggingon said:

Two words. Space Shuttle. It soaked up all the money and minds.

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Yeah and didn't accomplish a thing. It's like we just wasted 40 years or there about.

joko104 said:

Think of living the rest of your life in a mobile home in the middle of the most horrible desolate and hot region on earth that you never, ever can leave. It's worse on Mars.

Any time they have tried to have humans in a small group live in a small space (cave, arboretum), they all quit within weeks.

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You are absolutely right. The trick is to make them RV or trailer absolutely huge. I mean bigger than an aircraft carrier. Significantly so. That means assembling that living space in space. We have a few things to learn yet before we can do the trip comfortably and efficiently.

specklebang said:

Eventually, we'll build a highway and you'll be able to drive to Mars in your flying car.

Some of us, anyway.

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Sounds like an excellent idea to me.