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Another question about race

Is it wrong to refer to themselves as any of the following?

  • No, its fine to be refered to as listed

    Votes: 14 53.8%

  • Yes, its wrong to be refered to as listed

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, I have neve expressed disapproval toward these designations

    Votes: 4 15.4%

  • Yes, I have expressed disapproval toward these designations

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • No, I'm fine "-American" in these cases

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • Yes, its wrong to add "-American" in these cases

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Total voters
    26
Un biased said:
As for yourself . It's as much as a ethnicity compared to other religions . I did not say it wasn't a ethnicity , since ethnicity is a very broad and general term . Its that after which point every religion would need to be considered a ethnicity .
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Such ignorance. Are you still in high school or something?

Post diaspora Jewish communities kept to themselves for the most part, did not proselytize to gain converts,and dna studies have revealed the entire Jewish community to be very closely linked genetically.They are an ethicity in every sense of the word unlike various other religions which spread through various ethnicities by converts.

You should be embarrassed to be saying such idiotic things.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is an interesting take on things, indeed. So patriotism, as defined by veteran status, is extremely low for females (2%) and the young males (14% of those below 40 years old), yet strongest in the elderly (80% of those 80-85 years old).

In U.S., 24% of Men, 2% of Women Are Veterans
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I'm not even a little bit surprised to hear that Americans were more truly patriotic is bygone days and that the number is decreasing in today's "I, Me, Mine" society.

And understand that I'm not trying to fill a quota so even if it were shown that only 1% of some demographic were Veterans it wouldn't really sway me.
 
Un biased said:
Its still a religious distinction. A male/female can be of a country and have a religion but it does not show where the person has came from or their origin or their history or traditions , just like most other religions . You can change them at any time . Jewish Atheist contradicts itself .
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There are a lot of Jews who might disagree with you.

In my understanding a Jew can be:

1. Someone with Hebrew ancestry, but no faith component to their lives. Google "Secular Jews."
2. An adherent to the faith of Judaism who is also of Hebrew ancestry.
3. A believer in Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ha-Mashiach) who is also of Hebrew ancestry. These Jews are by and large rejected by most other Jews of all stripes. Google "Messianic Jews."
4. A convert of the faith of Judaism but is not of Hebrew ancestry such as Ruth in the Old Testament, the grandmother of King David.
 
soot said:
I'm not even a little bit surprised to hear that Americans were more truly patriotic is bygone days and that the number is decreasing in today's "I, Me, Mine" society.

And understand that I'm not trying to fill a quota so even if it were shown that only 1% of some demographic were Veterans it wouldn't really sway me.
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Of course it would not; since you, by your own defintion, are in your own little patriots club. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Of course it would not; since you, by your own defintion, are in your own little patriots club. ;)
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There ya go.

Membership is open to just about anyone.

Not my fault few choose to join.
 
Smeagol said:
Do you there anything unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong for Americans to refer to themselves as any of the following with respect to ethic heritage?

- Italian
- Indian
- Chinese
- Irish
- Jewish
- German
- Arab

If you do consider it unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong; have you ever in your life expressed disapproval of the specific references listed?

To clear up any confusion that ethnicity is being discussed and not nationality of which the person is a patriotic citizen of America; is it unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong for Americans to add "-American" in that reference?
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Generally I consider myself a 98% German, 1% English, 1% mixed bag caucasian white guy protestant type of lower income, semi-native Coloradan skier and climber unfortunately born Cornhusker but a self-adopted Buff who likes to hunt and read... American.

Oh, and I vote. :)
 
Smeagol said:
Do you there anything unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong for Americans to refer to themselves as any of the following with respect to ethic heritage?

- Italian
- Indian
- Chinese
- Irish
- Jewish
- German
- Arab

If you do consider it unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong; have you ever in your life expressed disapproval of the specific references listed?

To clear up any confusion that ethnicity is being discussed and not nationality of which the person is a patriotic citizen of America; is it unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong for Americans to add "-American" in that reference?
Click to expand...
...but to answer your question, I don't necessarily consider it wrong or divisive - though I think the better way to put it would be to say "I'm an American... of German (or whatever) descent."
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Chinese-American implies that one is first, and foremost, Chinese but also happens to be of American citizenship.
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Actually, no... it doesn't imply that at all.
 
Un biased said:
I don't think that is possible it is a religious distinction . A ethnicity cannot be changed after birth as a religion can . If it were true then Christians would be Jewish .
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There is Judaism, the religion.

And there's the Jewish ethnicity. The Nazis did not care much for religion - they were measuring the curvature of noses. You could have been Christian for generations, but if were Jewish by blood, you were perceived as the enemy.


Likewise, in the internal passports of Soviet citizens, there was the "Fifth Line": ethnicity. For example, "Russian", "Pole" (like yours truly), "Tatar" or "Jew". Religion had nothing to do with it: everybody was supposed to be atheist anyway.
 
Un biased said:
Jewish is a religious distinction not of country of origin and that is the only problem I have with people putting American at the end . Most people are of multiple nationalities and not of just one . Besides it brings up the question of how long does one need to reside in this country for one to be deemed just a American since everybody ( except the natives ) had to immigrate to this country .
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When I read books, newspapers and personal journals and diaries pre WW ll and going back to the early 1800's, Germans who were Jews were just referred to as German-Jews. But never saw German-Catholic or German-Lutheran ever being being used.

Until the mid 1970's only first generation Americans used the hyphenated-American when referring to themselves. The next generation were just Americans.
 
Theodore Roosevelt's Hyphen-American speech:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism... a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish-American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic.

Hyphenated American - Conservapedia
 
APACHERAT said:
...
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First, no citing conservapedia - that's ridiculous.

Second, Roosevelt lived before airplanes, computers and globalization. Sure, I appreciate his philosophy and such. He was a very smart and learned man, but his geopolitical musings are out-dated.
 
ecofarm said:
First, no citing conservapedia - that's ridiculous.

Second, Roosevelt lived before airplanes, computers and globalization. Sure, I appreciate his philosophy and such. He was a very smart and learned man, but his geopolitical musings are out-dated.
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It's Roosevelt's speech, not Conservapedia's speech.

I've been on so many political forums going back in the beginning when C-SPAN use to have a public forum. I've never seen so much attacking the messenger instead of the message than on the DP forum. It's just fricken unbelievable. It's like dealing with a bunch of young college kids who think they been there and done that and know it all.

And just to be historicaly correct, the speech was given in 1915 and there were airplanes at the time flying over France shooting each other down.
Don't they teach history any longer in our schools ?
 
APACHERAT said:
It's Roosevelt's speech, not Conservapedia's speech.
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So? You still cited a joke website.

I've been on so many political forums going back in the beginning when C-SPAN use to have a public forum. I've never seen so much attacking the messenger instead of the message than on the DP forum. It's just fricken unbelievable. It's like dealing with a bunch of young college kids who think they been there and done that and know it all.
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Source is an important consideration.

And just to be historicaly correct, the speech was given in 1915 and there were airplanes at the time flying over France shooting each other down.
Don't they teach history any longer in our schools ?
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You know what I meant.


Are you gonna address the point? Or are you going to ignore the fact that world is vastly different now.
 
Everybody in America is something-American. Don't know why it bothers people so much. So they are proud of their heritage. Big freaking deal. If I want to run around wearing a headdress, a green derby and leiderhosen, and say that I am Irish-German-Native American (which I am), it shouldn't be anybody's business. Don't know why everybody's gotta be up in everybody else's business.
 
Un biased said:
Jewish is a religious distinction not of country of origin and that is the only problem I have with people putting American at the end . Most people are of multiple nationalities and not of just one . Besides it brings up the question of how long does one need to reside in this country for one to be deemed just a American since everybody ( except the natives ) had to immigrate to this country .
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Jewish is an ethnicity as well.
 
US Conservative said:
I never understood the Jewish ultra-liberal hate for Israel.
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Not only ultraliberal.
Most American Jews living here for many generations and have mainly pro-socialist worldview, it is expected that Israel will follow the socialist path of development.
But when Israel turned into almost normal capitalism, they immediately come to hate it.
 
loader said:
Not only ultraliberal.
Most American Jews living here for many generations and have mainly pro-socialist worldview, it is expected that Israel will follow the socialist path of development.
But when Israel turned into almost normal capitalism, they immediately come to hate it.
Click to expand...

Thats a shame. How do jews elsewhere in the world see israel?
 
Smeagol said:
Do you there anything unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong for Americans to refer to themselves as any of the following with respect to ethic heritage?

- Italian
- Indian
- Chinese
- Irish
- Jewish
- German
- Arab

If you do consider it unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong; have you ever in your life expressed disapproval of the specific references listed?

To clear up any confusion that ethnicity is being discussed and not nationality of which the person is a patriotic citizen of America; is it unpatriotic, divisive or otherwise wrong for Americans to add "-American" in that reference?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's wrong, but I don't think it helps anything.

Yes, language does have an extremely profound impact on perception. Language is the main tool of social and neural building for human beings. To say that these kinds of qualifiers have no impact on social cohesion, I think, is naive.

"American" is not an ethnicity, and adding your ethnicity into it suggests that you wish to be set apart from just "American." Perhaps you don't wish it, but even then, that is how it goes into other people's brains.

I won't say it's by any means the sole cause of the sharp racial divides we have in this country, but it is certain it reinforces it.

I think this is more detrimental than purely ideological based divisions, because it basically forces an entire artificial framework that isn't actually based on any shared character or belief, and in the absence of any logical explanation for otherising yourself, it's inevitable illogical explanations will arise. That does nothing but deepen the stereotype the races.

I am not going to call anyone out for doing it. I don't think it's "wrong." But I don't think it's helpful, and the fact that people feel such a need to include it even when people can readily see what color they are is a symptom and perhaps a contributor to bad racial relations.
 
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