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Is Obama a good president?[W:577]

Is Obama a good president?


  • Total voters
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I actually put him right with Obama. His foreign policy disaster could even pull him below Obama depending on an individual's opinion of the disaster.

I don't know, It's not like the Middle East has gotten any better since he got into office. Actually, I think you could probably argue that it's gotten far worse.
 
I'm not a fan of Bush's politics or policies, but he preformed better as a potus than Obama and seemed more adept at pushing his political agenda.
But I think that was more due to the team behind him, like Rove, as opposed to his own abilities.




A good president has to be a good manager, and Bush seemed to be a good manager.

You can't do it all yourself, so you have to be able to delegate responsibility to competent subordinates.
 
He is either the most misinformed or deceitful man that has ever held office. I believe deceitful and not to be malicious, but because he believes he is doing good. For him the ends justify the means. In the end he is arrogant, condescending and wrong.
 
I actually put him right with Obama. His foreign policy disaster could even pull him below Obama depending on an individual's opinion of the disaster
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I have read, and I agree that you really can't evaluate a president until at least twenty years after he leaves office for various reasons.

It's too early to fairly evaluate Bush or Obama right now. Twenty years from now we'll have a better picture of how their successes and failures during their time in office have affected the USA.
 
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what makes him stand out for me is the amount of and the intensity of support he had following his first election. I think a more forceful push from him on healthcare reform would have been able to deliver a much more broader policy change on the matter.



What in the world gives you that impression? The PPACA, like just about everything else the President has proposed, passed along purely partisan lines.

Now, we can assume that the same Republicans who have been pushing for a default on America's loans (you know, basic stuff that everybody knows better than to do) might, somehow, have started acting reasonable if the President was just a little more "forceful."

...Or we can avoid such assumptions because, in my not-so-humble-opinion, they're completely contradicted by the reality of the political circus in Washington today.

For instance, we can't get our Representatives to agree to pay the bills for the spending which they've already authorized--again, just about the most basic thing in the world--but we can get our Representatives to agree that chimpanzees should be able to retire in style.

I don't honestly see how any man or woman can be expected to perform well under such ludicrous circumstances.



But it seemed his main concern was simply getting a second term, which ultimately turned his 8 year presidency into a rather disappointing experience



If that was the case, then he'd have avoided the PPACA and the ARRA and TARP and, you know, all the things that he's been vilified for over the last 5 years.
 
I don't know, It's not like the Middle East has gotten any better since he got into office. Actually, I think you could probably argue that it's gotten far worse.

That'd be a pretty hard argument to make since President Obama authorized the raid on the compound in Abbottabad, winded down the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and switched to using drones and strike teams to handle targets instead of authorizing unilateral invasions of entire countries with the use of trillions of dollars and over a million people. Could you imagine if we had used President W. Bush's tactics to deal with targets in places like Mali, Yemen, and Syria? It'd be an unmitigated disaster (assuming Iraq wasn't an unmitigated disaster, because if it was, then I don't have a good term for handling terrorists in Syria the way we handled them in Iraq).
 
He is beyond any reasonable doubt the most useless piece of commie **** to ever be given the opportunity to **** over America.
 
Say what you want about Bush, he actually joined hands with the other side and sought to get majorities. The way this President is dividing the country sickens me.

Did he actually join hands with the other side or was he simply more successful at bullying his Democratic counterparts in the Congress than President Obama? You know, vote for the PATRIOT Act or you're not a PATRIOT, his absolute desecration of Mr. Kerry's war record, the manner in which he achieved victory in 2000 primary battle with Mr. McCain, etc. President W. Bush didn't "join hands" with anybody. He implicitly threatened to directly attack and harm your career unless you did what he and his advisers suggested. You may be about to say that President Obama hasn't shied away from such tactics, and I won't entirely disagree, but then, if that's your response, there's no way either of us agrees with your above remark.

For all the joining hands President W. Bush supposedly did, he couldn't even get his own Republicans to vote for his immigration reform bill. It wouldn't have gotten any votes at all if the Democrats back then were half as obstructive as the Republicans of today.

So there might be some truth to the idea that President Obama has "divided the nation" (I entirely disagree, but hold on), and I strongly agree that one area in which President Obama has failed is his ability to meet with the Congress, congressional Republicans or Democrats, doesn't matter, to accomplish anything. While I agree with the President that he shouldn't have to babysit the Congress, it became obvious a long time ago that the Congress is composed of nothing but bratty and selfish children, so this President has, imo, failed to do any real uniting.

But all we're really saying at that point is that the President is as content as just about everyone else to allow the pre-existing divisions to become worse.
 
I agree that Eisenhower was an excellent president.

I put him pretty close to the top of the list.

He was also a pretty good general.

We could use a lot of politicians who think and act like him like him right now.

I'm talking about people who put what's good for the USA ahead of what's good for the party that they belong to.

That will be the day in today's day and age of party first politics. We have a president that demonizes the opposition, two leaders in the senate that both believe in the my way or the highway attitude. A speaker that scared of a vocal minority of his party members. Such is the state of our political system today.
 
That'd be a pretty hard argument to make since President Obama authorized the raid on the compound in Abbottabad, winded down the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and switched to using drones and strike teams to handle targets instead of authorizing unilateral invasions of entire countries with the use of trillions of dollars and over a million people. Could you imagine if we had used President W. Bush's tactics to deal with targets in places like Mali, Yemen, and Syria? It'd be an unmitigated disaster (assuming Iraq wasn't an unmitigated disaster, because if it was, then I don't have a good term for handling terrorists in Syria the way we handled them in Iraq).

Putting aside that you are assuming what Bush would of done, and we can't say for sure he would of done the same thing, look at the Middle East as a whole. Egypt is a military dictaorship, Syria is in Civil war, Lybia has become a haven for our enemies. And then there is Pakistan. Because of those drone strikes and strike teams, vehicles can't move in and out of Pakistan into Afghanistan because of protests. And Afghanistan, even after a surge, isn't working out well and will be a quagmire. And Iraq was wrapped up by Bush before he left off with the agreement of withdrawal.

So yeah, Obama is worse.
 
He is beyond any reasonable doubt the most useless piece of commie **** to ever be given the opportunity to **** over America.

"Commie." Adorable. Good to see some people are still fighting the Cold War and red-baiting at the drop of a hat.
 
I do believe that the extremists have a hold on this one..
And, we "progressives" are above these shenanigans are we not ??
Thus we have yet another ruined poll, which was not good from the go..
 
That will be the day in today's day and age of party first politics. We have a president that demonizes the opposition, two leaders in the senate that both believe in the my way or the highway attitude. A speaker that scared of a vocal minority of his party members. Such is the state of our political system today.




I hear what you're saying and I agree that needs to change.

We need to start sending people to Washington,D.C. who care more about what's good for the whole USA than they do about what's good for one party or another.
 
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I hear what you're saying and I agree that needs to change.

The problem is I do not see change in the near future. What is going on in the senate makes me miss leaders like Dole and Mitchell, heck I even miss leaders like Byrd and Baker. I miss a president like Clinton who did a pivot and his trianglelazation strategy. At least he worked with members of the opposition and he got most of his agenda through and ended up almost balancing the books. What a mess this political polarization has gotten our country into.
 
What in the world gives you that impression? The PPACA, like just about everything else the President has proposed, passed along purely partisan lines.

well 1) he avoided the debate until most of the troubled aspects were hammered out in congress. 2) The bill suffered heavily from internal dissent within the democratic party, including times they had a super majority in the senate

If that was the case, then he'd have avoided the PPACA and the ARRA and TARP and, you know, all the things that he's been vilified for over the last 5 years.

He did avoid the ACA for most of the debate, and TARP was signed into law under Bush ...
 
That'd be a pretty hard argument to make since President Obama authorized the raid on the compound in Abbottabad, winded down the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and switched to using drones and strike teams to handle targets instead of authorizing unilateral invasions of entire countries with the use of trillions of dollars and over a million people. Could you imagine if we had used President W. Bush's tactics to deal with targets in places like Mali, Yemen, and Syria? It'd be an unmitigated disaster (assuming Iraq wasn't an unmitigated disaster, because if it was, then I don't have a good term for handling terrorists in Syria the way we handled them in Iraq).


the Drone Program was developed under Bush. Obama simply increased and expanded it
 
well 1) he avoided the debate until most of the troubled aspects were hammered out in congress. 2) The bill suffered heavily from internal dissent within the democratic party, including times they had a super majority in the senate

He did avoid the ACA for most of the debate, and TARP was signed into law under Bush ...

If it hadn't, the public option (which I considered a must-have if the individual mandate was a part of the deal) wouldn't have gotten scotched.
 
If it hadn't, the public option (which I considered a must-have if the individual mandate was a part of the deal) wouldn't have gotten scotched.

The administration never really gave serious concern to the public option, from my understanding. They more or less used it as a bargaining chip, and the form it was offered in was drastically watered down from anything that would have been effective.

But with that said, I think he had more than enough influence to bully his own party in line, but the ACA seems to be the exact type of legislation he was working for

Truth about the public option momentarily emerges, quickly scampers back into hiding - Salon.com

Truth Emerges about the Public Option : Columbia Journalism Review

But with that said, Obama had the public support at the time to undoubtedly steer internal party politics much more than he tried. Though he seemed more content to be persona non grata during that whole fracas
 
The administration never really gave serious concern to the public option, from my understanding. They more or less used it as a bargaining chip, and the form it was offered in was drastically watered down from anything that would have been effective.

But with that said, I think he had more than enough influence to bully his own party in line, but the ACA seems to be the exact type of legislation he was working for

Truth about the public option momentarily emerges, quickly scampers back into hiding - Salon.com

Truth Emerges about the Public Option : Columbia Journalism Review

But with that said, Obama had the public support at the time to undoubtedly steer internal party politics much more than he tried. Though he seemed more content to be persona non grata during that whole fracas

I seem to remember a few of the Blue Dogs (Nelson, Bayh, maybe Baucus) objecting and the P.O. coming off the table pretty quickly.
 
I'm not a fan of Bush's politics or policies, but he preformed better as a potus than Obama and seemed more adept at pushing his political agenda. But I think that was more due to the team behind him, like Rove, as opposed to his own abilities.

Although an intelligent man, Bush didn't think he was nor had to be the smartest man in the room, unlike the current President who's never met anyone quite so brilliant as himself. When you pretty much look down on everyone you're dealing with daily, it's hard to take counsel from them or accept their advice.
 
That'd be a pretty hard argument to make since President Obama authorized the raid on the compound in Abbottabad, winded down the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and switched to using drones and strike teams to handle targets instead of authorizing unilateral invasions of entire countries with the use of trillions of dollars and over a million people. Could you imagine if we had used President W. Bush's tactics to deal with targets in places like Mali, Yemen, and Syria? It'd be an unmitigated disaster (assuming Iraq wasn't an unmitigated disaster, because if it was, then I don't have a good term for handling terrorists in Syria the way we handled them in Iraq).

Depends on your point of view - from where I sit, your take is utter nonsense.

1. Obama was able to give the order to raid the compound in Abbottabad because of intelligence gleaned from the Bush authorized enhanced interrogation techniques that Obama roundly dismissed and condemned before and after he took office. Without that intelligence, you may still be looking for bin Laden.

2. Obama did not wind down conflict in Iraq - in fact, Obama simply allowed the Bush administration withdrawal agreement with Iraq to take place. However, Obama was instrumental in being unable to negotiate with the Iraqis on an agreement to retain a certain level of troops in Iraq while the country transitioned and stabilized. As a result, Iraq has been anything but stable and has been drifting into Iranian influence since the date Obama walked into the Oval Office.

3. Obama did not wind down conflict in Afghanistan before he ramped it up, increasing the troops in the area although not as much as his military experts requested, extending time in the country without any appreciable mission or gain, and long past virtually every international country who cooperated with Bush in Afghanistan. The result is a continued, failed, Afghanistan, perhaps the most corrupt country in the world, with the US condoning or sanctioning negotiations with the Taliban. Talk about dealing with the devil.

4. The use of drones under Obama has been to the moral disgrace of America and I believe America will rue the day when a US President authorized the first and many after murders of innocent people in sovereign countries that America was not at war with and whom America explicitly or implicitly indentifies as an ally. Innocent men, women, and children, are not just "collateral damage" when a US President decides he wants to "take out" a bad guy. People like you wanted Bush tried for war crimes because a few prisoners got embarrassed by rogue soldiers whereas you think Obama is a hero for murdering people indiscriminately.

5. Finally, places like Mali, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc. were not "problems" when Bush was President - these places didn't become roiled in discontent until the great Obama decided to go to Egypt, in many respects the lead country in the middle east, and gave the masses the impression that America was behind them in their fight for freedom and independence. Was the message bad? No. But it was a disaster when it was given by a man without the ability or the backbone to back it up. He sat on his ass and watched as young people all over the middle east rose up against oppression and the great Obama sat in his golf cart and let them be beaten back and many die in the process. How cruel to encourage people and give them hope and then abandon them when they need you most.

But, it's all your individual perspective.
 
Although an intelligent man, Bush didn't think he was nor had to be the smartest man in the room, unlike the current President who's never met anyone quite so brilliant as himself. When you pretty much look down on everyone you're dealing with daily, it's hard to take counsel from them or accept their advice.

Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

You may be on to something. Maybe that's the reason no one ever tells him anything---they figure he already knows it all. :mrgreen:

I'm getting an early start today; got lots to get done! It's 22 degrees and snowing, so I'm housebound. I attended a silent auction to benefit a pet rescue animal shelter last evening, and it was fun! Hope all is well with you!
 
I'm sure this will end in a proper and dignified manner.

I don't think he's the worst president but is FAR from what I would consider a good president. I find him to be extremely divisive. I don't think I ever remember the country being so divided.
 
I don't think he's the worst president but is FAR from what I would consider a good president. I find him to be extremely divisive. I don't think I ever remember the country being so divided.

Well, give life some time. I have lived long enough to have seen it divided for quite awhile. Doesn't seem like it will change, just get more so. Attempts to blame it on Obama are wails of the sadly defeated. I don't know why Obama gets such grief. Maybe there are a lot of people that deep down inside don't like him because he is black. I don't like him either, but I am not going to blame him for all hell freezing over and the lack of a Second Coming of Christ. Goodness.

Having said that, Obama is a lot better than his predecessor, Bush, an whole lot better, and no better or worse than most that we have had in the last few decades.
 
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