• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Would you support THIS voter ID law described in OP?

Would you support THIS voter ID law described in OP?

  • Total voters
    24
jamesrage said:
1.)For a long time in my state they just asked for your name and party affiliation
2.) they pulled out a computer print out with names look for your name and have you sign next to it.
3.) No ID or even a voter registration card was asked for.
4.) So if someone knew what elections certian voters voted in and didn't vote in then someone could litterally walk in claim to be that person,forge their signature and no one would be the wiser.
5.) Eventually we enacted voter id laws. In my state to get a voter registration card is still a joke.You just fill out a form,mail it in and then a week or two later you have a voter ID. Many employers use this as ID.
6.)The thing is many people do not vote in every election. Generally in presidential elections most registered voters in a city will vote, but if its just a state election then there is less registered voters from that same city voting and if its just a mayoral election then even less registered voters from that same city will vote. Its like a funnel.I think on top of a photo ID and voter registration card the election board should send you a letter informing you that you have voted this way voters will know if someone someone voted for them or not.
Click to expand...

1.) party affliation? now that weird, heck in PA as an independent i cant even vote sometimes unless i go on line and switch which is easy but they never ask that
2.) yeah i forgot the sign part we do that here too
3.) ID was always asked for but it wasnt law. As far as the cards thats never been asked for but if you werent registered then you werent on the list anyway
4.) which is a huge risk and very hard to pull off unless one is certain.
5.) does seem a little lax.
6.) I like that idea, about being notifed you voted, i think its really good actually, very simple.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The problem with accepting multiple (non mutually exclusive) IDs is that without verification one can hold several of them, possibly in different districts/states, and vote multiple times "legally", thus defeating the purpose entirely.
Click to expand...

no problem with that here in PA because a registered voter has to vote at his polling place and his polling place is assigned to him and to be registered info must check out.
 
Fisher said:
not in my state they are not. State ID's are mailed to the address of record about two weeks after your visit to the DMV.
Click to expand...

that fine just pointing out the technology and ability is very simple and already done in many places
 
AGENT J said:
no problem with that here in PA because a registered voter has to vote at his polling place and his polling place is assigned to him and to be registered info must check out.
Click to expand...

There are not two John Smith's with different addresses? Do they check the photo's to see if they match? Can you not vote absentee while on vacation? Can you not drive to NY, NJ, MD, OH, WV or DE in a just few hours?
 
Modern computer networks being what they are, they should just have a laptop and pull up a picture of you from the DMV. In fact, all you need is for you to give permission to the DMV next time you renew your license to share your photo with county voting authorities (or whoever does it). You show up, tell them who you are, they can pull up your picture and address on the laptop, and you're good to go. Then you can vote without an ID. I'd also do the same for anybody living in section 8 housing - we take your picture and we'll share it with voting authorities. ICE can share it when you become a citizen if you're naturalized. I mean, it's the 21st Century, no need for paper here.

In fact, you shouldn't even really need all that. Keep your records updated and scan a fingerprint when you go to vote. It's a lot harder to fake a fingerprint than it is to fake an ID, and even poor people have fingerprints!
 
And with a fingerprint scan, they'll know right away if you're a felon (because well, we've got your prints if you committed a crime)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
There are not two John Smith's with different addresses?
2.) Do they check the photo's to see if they match?
3.) Can you not vote absentee while on vacation? Can you not drive to NY, NJ, MD, OH, WV or DE in a just few hours?
Click to expand...

1.)boom and you nailed it, DIFFERENT addresses, different voting polls
2.) yes they do
3.) dont know i would imagine so but you still have to be registered
4.) dont know the laws in other states nor do they effect what i said about PA
 
AGENT J said:
1.)boom and you nailed it, DIFFERENT addresses, different voting polls
2.) yes they do
3.) dont know i would imagine so but you still have to be registered
4.) dont know the laws in other states nor do they effect what i said about PA
Click to expand...

2)Photos are compared between the different polling places? All John Smith photos in PA are compared by who and/or what?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
2)Photos are compared between the different polling places? All John Smith photos in PA are compared by who and/or what?
Click to expand...

2.) no sorry misunderstood I thought you just meant the ID itself but regardless i cant go to any other poling place, i have to go to mine nor would i be registered at any other polling place
 
AGENT J said:
2.) no sorry misunderstood I thought you just meant the ID itself but regardless i cant go to any other poling place, i have to go to mine nor would i be registered at any other polling place
Click to expand...

Why not? A passport bears no address so one could register at multiple polls.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Why not? A passport bears no address so one could register at multiple polls.
Click to expand...

thats not how it works in PA
theres a verification process and you cant same day register, you have to 30 days prior

like i said even as a registered voted i can only vote at my designated polling place
 
AGENT J said:
The ID is free and easily and readily obtainable.
It can be obtain where all other IDs can DMV, Passport, court house for weapons permits etc and at the polling places at certain times.

Also the VOTING ID isnt required to vote other picture IDs are also acceptable, Drivers license, Passport, military ID etc.

as always if theres a problem with ID you still get to vote special ballot and will have a time frame to work it out.

Yes
No
I love mashed potatoes.

View attachment 67157568


I would definitely support it under these conditions.
Click to expand...

Nope.

You are still discriminating against those too lazy to get off their asses and go get the free ID. Of course, one would also think those lazy people are too lazy to go to the polls and vote, so now a lot of places have mail-in voting. Unfortunately, those people you've discriminated against are too lazy to open their mail, fill out the ballot and mail it back.

You just can't win, dude.
 
Mycroft said:
Nope.

1.)You are still discriminating against those too lazy to get off their asses and go get the free ID. Of course, one would also think those lazy people are too lazy to go to the polls and vote, so now a lot of places have mail-in voting. Unfortunately, those people you've discriminated against are too lazy to open their mail, fill out the ballot and mail it back.

2.)You just can't win, dude.
Click to expand...

1.)in the example in the OP this doesnt happen since they can get it at the polling place

2.) also nothing to win just wanted to know what people thought
 
Perotista said:
This is Georgia's voter ID law. Its free, easy to get, etc.
Click to expand...

Georgia is not a Presidential Elections swing state. It seems the only places where there new more difficult voter ID laws were enacted were states that:

A). Had GOP control of state government
B). Where polling and other date indicated the GOP could possibly win but it would be close
C). There were significant numbers of lower income minorities in the state who might not all have all their ducks in a row with respect to personal organization, use public transportation and of course are likely to live on a shoestring budget. Not every single minority in their state, just maybe enough to swing an outcome in a close swing state.

These same states were also the only one to cut back on early voting options that just so happened to coincidentally correspond to the days minorities have shown up to vote in the largest numbers and one state in particular reduces early voting hours in minority communities while leaving them extended in non-minority communities...in the same state!

BTW: I was just talking with a friend yesterday on former GOP Florida State Chairman Jim Greer's sworn testimony that the GOP held strategy meeting to brainstorm on how to suppress the black vote in that state. According to my friend, Jim Greer lied under oath and it was only a coincidence that the Republican Governor and legislature in that state rolled out a comprehensive voter ID and early voting reduction schedule that fell on the days blacks vote in the largest number. This was only to save money and to stop (non-existent) voter fraud in the state. So now we know!
 
AGENT J said:
The ID is free and easily and readily obtainable.
It can be obtain where all other IDs can DMV, Passport, court house for weapons permits etc and at the polling places at certain times.

Also the VOTING ID isnt required to vote other picture IDs are also acceptable, Drivers license, Passport, military ID etc.

as always if theres a problem with ID you still get to vote special ballot and will have a time frame to work it out.

Yes
No
I love mashed potatoes.

View attachment 67157568


I would definitely support it under these conditions.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd support something like that. Hell why not just make a voter ID card a picture ID and solve all the problems.
 
I'm sure most people have some sort of ID. And as long as there is no cost for those that don't have an ID to get one it would be fine. Are the states going to provide some kind of mobile ID method so there are no cost, ie gas, bus fare, and so on. If there is any cost wouldn't that be considered a poll tax? Also how will the ID's of those voting by mail be checked? How about the Military people stationed overseas that vote by mail? If you're going to require ID at the voting places then all bases need to be covered otherwise this is just another "feel good" law.
 
Smeagol said:
Georgia is not a Presidential Elections swing state. It seems the only places where there new more difficult voter ID laws were enacted were states that:

A). Had GOP control of state government
B). Where polling and other date indicated the GOP could possibly win but it would be close
C). There were significant numbers of lower income minorities in the state who might not all have all their ducks in a row with respect to personal organization, use public transportation and of course are likely to live on a shoestring budget. Not every single minority in their state, just maybe enough to swing an outcome in a close swing state.

These same states were also the only one to cut back on early voting options that just so happened to coincidentally correspond to the days minorities have shown up to vote in the largest numbers and one state in particular reduces early voting hours in minority communities while leaving them extended in non-minority communities...in the same state!

BTW: I was just talking with a friend yesterday on former GOP Florida State Chairman Jim Greer's sworn testimony that the GOP held strategy meeting to brainstorm on how to suppress the black vote in that state. According to my friend, Jim Greer lied under oath and it was only a coincidence that the Republican Governor and legislature in that state rolled out a comprehensive voter ID and early voting reduction schedule that fell on the days blacks vote in the largest number. This was only to save money and to stop (non-existent) voter fraud in the state. So now we know!
Click to expand...

That all may be, but what about South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas? In all these states the photo ID has been challenged and taken to court, these states will not be close. Connecticut, Pennsylvania are two northern states that has also been taken to court and are reliable Democratic states, usually not close again. All total 34 out of 50 states now have photo ID laws or are in the process of getting them depending on the outcome of some court cases.

Personally I never like this early voting. We have an election day and it is that day people are suppose to go vote. Not vote early. Who knows how Ohio would have turned out last year? Early voting started before the first presidential election debate, how many had voted early and then changed their minds only to find out it was too late. I think election day should be exactly that, election day. Oh I know early voting was instituted in the hopes that it would bring more people to the polls, but it hasn't done that.

Back in the 60's when one only could voted on one day, election day the turn out for presidential elections was 63, 63 and 61%. The turn out over the last three presidential elections were 51,55, and 56%. Not up to standards I would say. But I am old fashioned and like the old way better. No evil intent here. Just a firm belief that election day should be just that, election day. Election day shouldn't consist of 3 weeks or a month or longer.

I have no doubt some of the laws were to suppress voter turn out, but many more by looking at the 34 states that have or are getting them, it was more to prevent fraud than to repress. I have no problem with them. Now if a state has early voting in some area and not all, then yes, that is a problem that has to be addressed. But if there was no early voting, the problem would be solved.
 
AGENT J said:
The ID is free and easily and readily obtainable.
It can be obtain where all other IDs can DMV, Passport, court house for weapons permits etc and at the polling places at certain times.

Also the VOTING ID isnt required to vote other picture IDs are also acceptable, Drivers license, Passport, military ID etc.

as always if theres a problem with ID you still get to vote special ballot and will have a time frame to work it out.

Yes
No
I love mashed potatoes.

View attachment 67157568


I would definitely support it under these conditions.
Click to expand...

Yes. Honestly, every person should have some sort of ID. I think in 2012 the new "Real ID Act" caught a lot of people by surprise then only to learn it was required to vote ruffled some feathers. I have a friend who had to return to the DMV office 2 times with visits on 3 different days because each time she learned the documentation to get her drivers license renewed was not enough. REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Identity and date of birth: To document identity and date of birth, you must submit one of the following documents.
-Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or U.S. passport card
-Certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a state of the United States. (“State” includes the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.) It must be a certified copy and have the stamp or raised seal of the issuing authority. A hospital-issued certificate is not acceptable. A certified birth certificate issued by Puerto Rico must be certified as being issued on or after July 1, 2010.
-Legal immigrants have a whole other list of documentation requirements.

Plus one of the following. Photocopies and faxes of these documents will NOT be accepted.
-Your Social Security card
-W-2 form
-Social Security Administration 1099 form
-Non-Social Security Administration 1099 form
-Pay stub with your name and Social Security number on it

Plus proof of residency
-voter registration card.
-A valid vehicle registration certificate.
-Valid insurance card or certificate of coverage (life, health, auto, homeowner’s or renter’s)
-Second valid insurance card or certificate of coverage (different than first)
-Utility hook up or bill (water, gas, electric, or garbage removal)
-Second utility hookup or bill (different than the first)
-Telephone hookup, service agreement or bill (landline or mobile)
-Statement from a financial institution (bank, credit union or other financial institution)
-Second statement from a financial institution (different from the first)
-Personal check or deposit slip issued by a financial institution (you may mark this “VOID”)
-Credit, debit or charge card statement
-Residential mortgage, lease or rental agreement (lease and rental agreements must include the landlord’s name and contact information)
-Pay stub or statement from your employer
-Your current school enrollment papers for a public or private school
-Current school enrollment papers for a dependent child in a public or private school
-A federal, State or local government document (such as a receipt, license, permit, assessment, professional or trade license, or other document)
-Second federal, State or local government document (different than the first)
-An envelope, box, postcard or magazine that includes a postmark or stamped date

Your marriage license issued by the state or foreign government if a name change is applicable. Photocopies and faxes will not be accepted.

All this for the very first time in order to vote thrown on low income, inner-city minorities who have direct deposit and use public transportation weeks before election day in several GOP controlled states.

Since the Real ID required documentation is the same for a passport, I say go ahead and give every American a passport when they are issued their drivers licenses.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The problem with accepting multiple (non mutually exclusive) IDs is that without verification one can hold several of them, possibly in different districts/states, and vote multiple times "legally", thus defeating the purpose entirely.
Click to expand...

Seems like a job computers easily solve.
 
Smeagol said:
Yes. Honestly, every person should have some sort of ID. I think in 2012 the new "Real ID Act" caught a lot of people by surprise then only to learn it was required to vote ruffled some feathers. I have a friend who had to return to the DMV office 2 times with visits on 3 different days because each time she learned the documentation to get her drivers license renewed was not enough. REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Identity and date of birth: To document identity and date of birth, you must submit one of the following documents.
-Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or U.S. passport card
-Certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a state of the United States. (“State” includes the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.) It must be a certified copy and have the stamp or raised seal of the issuing authority. A hospital-issued certificate is not acceptable. A certified birth certificate issued by Puerto Rico must be certified as being issued on or after July 1, 2010.
-Legal immigrants have a whole other list of documentation requirements.

Plus one of the following. Photocopies and faxes of these documents will NOT be accepted.
-Your Social Security card
-W-2 form
-Social Security Administration 1099 form
-Non-Social Security Administration 1099 form
-Pay stub with your name and Social Security number on it

Plus proof of residency
-voter registration card.
-A valid vehicle registration certificate.
-Valid insurance card or certificate of coverage (life, health, auto, homeowner’s or renter’s)
-Second valid insurance card or certificate of coverage (different than first)
-Utility hook up or bill (water, gas, electric, or garbage removal)
-Second utility hookup or bill (different than the first)
-Telephone hookup, service agreement or bill (landline or mobile)
-Statement from a financial institution (bank, credit union or other financial institution)
-Second statement from a financial institution (different from the first)
-Personal check or deposit slip issued by a financial institution (you may mark this “VOID”)
-Credit, debit or charge card statement
-Residential mortgage, lease or rental agreement (lease and rental agreements must include the landlord’s name and contact information)
-Pay stub or statement from your employer
-Your current school enrollment papers for a public or private school
-Current school enrollment papers for a dependent child in a public or private school
-A federal, State or local government document (such as a receipt, license, permit, assessment, professional or trade license, or other document)
-Second federal, State or local government document (different than the first)
-An envelope, box, postcard or magazine that includes a postmark or stamped date

Your marriage license issued by the state or foreign government if a name change is applicable. Photocopies and faxes will not be accepted.

All this for the very first time in order to vote thrown on low income, inner-city minorities who have direct deposit and use public transportation weeks before election day in several GOP controlled states.

Since the Real ID required documentation is the same for a passport, I say go ahead and give every American a passport when they are issued their drivers licenses.
Click to expand...

and this was basically my point, the argument has been made many times that so many people dont support VOter ID and that is simply not true. the vast majoirty of americans would support it if it was just about an ID.

Where the support suffers is the things piggy backed on to the voter ID bills or the hoops that need jumped through to get the ID, not the ID itslef.

DL# and or SS is all that should be needed, then the state checks that against residency and prior registration. In most cases this will be enough, in cases of conflicted then the system gets deeper of course.

and also like i said this is going off of my state model where i can only vote at one polling place, no other, ID is checked and you sign.

Something James brought up that i thought was simple and awesome is you should be notified that you voted.

Very simple system and then we just simply tweek it from there.
 
Perotista said:
That all may be, but what about South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas? In all these states the photo ID has been challenged and taken to court, these states will not be close. Connecticut, Pennsylvania are two northern states that has also been taken to court and are reliable Democratic states, usually not close again. All total 34 out of 50 states now have photo ID laws or are in the process of getting them depending on the outcome of some court cases.

Personally I never like this early voting. We have an election day and it is that day people are suppose to go vote. Not vote early. Who knows how Ohio would have turned out last year? Early voting started before the first presidential election debate, how many had voted early and then changed their minds only to find out it was too late. I think election day should be exactly that, election day. Oh I know early voting was instituted in the hopes that it would bring more people to the polls, but it hasn't done that.

Back in the 60's when one only could voted on one day, election day the turn out for presidential elections was 63, 63 and 61%. The turn out over the last three presidential elections were 51,55, and 56%. Not up to standards I would say. But I am old fashioned and like the old way better. No evil intent here. Just a firm belief that election day should be just that, election day. Election day shouldn't consist of 3 weeks or a month or longer.

I have no doubt some of the laws were to suppress voter turn out, but many more by looking at the 34 states that have or are getting them, it was more to prevent fraud than to repress. I have no problem with them. Now if a state has early voting in some area and not all, then yes, that is a problem that has to be addressed. But if there was no early voting, the problem would be solved.
Click to expand...

I must have been mistaken. I was only aware of the voting controversies in the swing states and I include Pennsylvania. Must have been where I recall most of the national news coverage.

I personally love early voting. I've always hated standing in line for an eternity. I'd still vote but early voting is far more convenient.
 
Smeagol said:
I must have been mistaken. I was only aware of the voting controversies in the swing states and I include Pennsylvania. Must have been where I recall most of the national news coverage.

I personally love early voting. I've always hated standing in line for an eternity. I'd still vote but early voting is far more convenient.
Click to expand...

I agree, early voting is more convenient. For me I have to go down to the county voter registration office as it is the only one open for early voting, but I do it if I am in the area. If not I will wait until election. I live in the country so long lines has never been a problem. As for the rest, the news covers what it covers and controversy sells. So one doesn't hear about all the other states.
 
if there is a problem with your ID you "don't" get to vote. Why it require it, if nothing changes
 
Perotista said:
That all may be, but what about South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas? In all these states the photo ID has been challenged and taken to court, these states will not be close. Connecticut, Pennsylvania are two northern states that has also been taken to court and are reliable Democratic states, usually not close again. All total 34 out of 50 states now have photo ID laws or are in the process of getting them depending on the outcome of some court cases.

Personally I never like this early voting. We have an election day and it is that day people are suppose to go vote. Not vote early. Who knows how Ohio would have turned out last year? Early voting started before the first presidential election debate, how many had voted early and then changed their minds only to find out it was too late. I think election day should be exactly that, election day. Oh I know early voting was instituted in the hopes that it would bring more people to the polls, but it hasn't done that.

Back in the 60's when one only could voted on one day, election day the turn out for presidential elections was 63, 63 and 61%. The turn out over the last three presidential elections were 51,55, and 56%. Not up to standards I would say. But I am old fashioned and like the old way better. No evil intent here. Just a firm belief that election day should be just that, election day. Election day shouldn't consist of 3 weeks or a month or longer.

I have no doubt some of the laws were to suppress voter turn out, but many more by looking at the 34 states that have or are getting them, it was more to prevent fraud than to repress. I have no problem with them. Now if a state has early voting in some area and not all, then yes, that is a problem that has to be addressed. But if there was no early voting, the problem would be solved.
Click to expand...

:agree: with everything you said. I realize that there may be good reasons for people to request an absentee ballot---business travel, planned hospital procedures, family vacations and so forth---but three weeks for early voting? C'mon, no one is that damn busy! At most, maybe one week could be allowed. We used to have one day to vote...Election Day...for year and years, and I don't recall problems with people being "disenfranchised," back then. This current trend to keep on extending the voting times is just :bs: in my opinion! If there was no early voting, there would be no problem with fraud, as you pointed out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom