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Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not based on what we know?


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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Don't know enough specifics.
Voted other, and meant this.

FFS I'm tired of the constant trend these days, of convicting someone in the court of public opinion days, months, even years before they actually stand trial.

Stop.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

OK, so what do you want to talk about on internet forums?
Voted other, and meant this.

FFS I'm tired of the constant trend these days, of convicting someone in the court of public opinion days, months, even years before they actually stand trial.

Stop.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Until more information about her actions is released, I'm going with innocent.
She was drunk and stoned
and all she did was knock on the door and wait for someone to answer? To much effort is being expended to make her look like a victim and not enough explaining what really went on.




Since when does someone being drunk and/or stoned constitute a valid excuse to shoot and kill them?

Maybe you could fill us in on that.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

"did not need to"? I guess that depends on your view. My view is that just the fact there is an 85% or greater chance she was a obama supporting liberal more than justifies it. If she was acting weird, which she was drunk and stoned, then I can see the old man being a bit edgy.

Personally, if he is a union supporting liberal, then burn him to the max and make it a twofer, if he ain't, give him a medal for helping clean up and improve America.




If you read this and thought about it at all before you posted it, you may have a problem.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Since when does someone being drunk and/or stoned constitute a valid excuse to shoot and kill them?

Maybe you could fill us in on that.

it doesnt one bit what so ever unless theres a whole bunch we dont know, but knowing that alone is meaningless with out evidence of anything else, right not its as relevant as whether her ears were pierced or not.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

it doesnt one bit what so ever unless theres a whole bunch we dont know, but knowing that alone is meaningless with out evidence of anything else, right not its as relevant as whether her ears were pierced or not.




I am just going to guess that the perp's attorney won't bring it up as a defense at the trial.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

I am just going to guess that the perp's attorney won't bring it up as a defense at the trial.


and i would agree unless theres real evidence

but it m may come up anyway because the drivers lawyer already as suggested that injured and drinking and dazed form the head injury makes her less of a potential threat, we know already interacted with people that tried to help her and all she could tell them is she wanted to go home, no signs of aggression or begin defensive at that moment.

COuld that have changed? of course but again there will have to be further evidence not guessing like that poster is trying to do.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

OK, so what do you want to talk about on internet forums?
Other things.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

It sure as hell looks like the shooter is guilty of something, but I'm uncomfortable convicting him at this point without knowing why he shot. It seems crazy, without a chance of any reasonable argument or defense. I'd like to see a mental examination, a statement from the shooter, just a little more.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Since when does someone being drunk and/or stoned constitute a valid excuse to shoot and kill them?
No one said it does.
But it does go to whether or not it is likely she was banging on the door as the only witness said, or if she was knocking on the door which the family perpetrated and the Prosecutor adopted.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

No one said it does.
But it does go to whether or not it is likely she was banging on the door as the only witness said, or if she was knocking on the door which the family perpetrated and the Prosecutor adopted.

theres zero factual evidence or rational that says a person drunk/high will knock on a door in any particular way, nor due to current evidence does it matter

theres zero factual evidence that says the the Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy deviated from evidence/protocol and adopted the family's "opinion" to bring charges against the home owner, she doesn't work for the parents, she doesn't represent the family. Her job is the county proscuter she brings charges against people for the county.

Gerald Thurswell is the attorney who represents McBride’s family


now this doesnt change the fact there will be a trial but here are the comments from Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy who after an investigation decided to bring charges against McBride based off of evidence her and the county and police have.

"evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

" Evidence suggests that Wafer opened the front (interior) door before he fired through the closed and locked screen door"

“Under Michigan law, there is no duty to retreat in your own home. However, someone who claims self-defense must honestly and reasonably believe that he is in imminent danger of either losing his life or suffering great bodily harm, and that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent that harm,”

“This ‘reasonable belief,’ is not measured subjectively by the standards of the individual in question, but objectively, by the standards of a reasonable person.”

“we have examined everything and after examining everything these are the appropriate charges and he did not act in lawful self-defense,”

"We dont feel its relevant to our charges at all in this case" (talking about the driver being intoxicated)

"Race was not a factor in her decision to bring charges against Theodore Wafer for the death of Renisha McBride"

“No matter what kind of pressure you receive to not charge a case or to charge it, you don’t go by that,”

“If the facts and evidence are leading you, then you can’t go wrong. If you are afraid to make those decisions, then you need not have this job. If you are afraid you will lose friends or lose influence or lose whatever — lose traction — then you don’t need to have this job, because you’ll make decisions based on the wrong things.”

"We make our decisions based on the facts and the evidence"

if you have any factual support to back up the claim that the county prosecutor adopted the knocking from the family please provide it, id love to read it, seem you complete made it up.
 
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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Not guilty.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

In every weapons class that I have ever had, these were stressed:

Opportunity= A person has the immediate opportunity to cause serious physical harm (The young lady was on the other side of a locked screed door)

Ability= Same person has the ability, by a weapon or even from physical stature. (No weapon, but there is a possibility that she was acting in a bizarre manner than may have been threatening, but has nor been shown)

Intent= Through actions or words they have presented intent to exercise the ability and opportunity to cause such harm. (again, no evidence to support this)


I do not see any of those in the evidence as shown in the news stories so far.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

The only witness said there was banging. That is the evidence that we have to go on. Period.


As most folks know from the Trayvon fiasco, what the prosecution says, is not evidence.
They can even say they are charging based on evidence and facts when they really aren't.

And in this case it is apparent that some folks are not paying attention to what was even said.
The Prosecutor said in her press conference that "It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." The only folks who had alleged such has been the family.


The only evidence that would support knocking, would be an eye witness to such, yet none are present at this time.

The only other evidence that may be available, is of her touching the door. Which really would not indicate whether done by knock or bang.

The prosecution, adopted exactly what the family had been alleging (that she had been knocking), none of whom were there.

All we really have is the eye witnesses account that she was banging on the door.


Here is a link to a PDF of the Police report, heavily redacted.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/835676/dearborn-case-report.pdf



And yes, her being inebriated well past the legal limit, will go directly to whether or not it is likely she was banging on the door as the only witness said.
Someone would have to be truly uneducated in the matters being discussed not to know that, as well as thinking what the Prosecutor thinks is relevant, or irrelevant, matters one bit to the defense.


For those interested, here is an interesting read about the case by Bennett L. Gershman, Professor of Law, Published at the Huff Post.
"I Didn't Mean to Kill Renisha McBride." But Does it Matter? | Bennett L. Gershman
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

1.)The only witness said there was banging. That is the evidence that we have to go on. Period.


As most folks know from the Trayvon fiasco, what the prosecution says, is not evidence.
They can even say they are charging based on evidence and facts when they really aren't.

And in this case it is apparent that some folks are not paying attention to what was even said.
The Prosecutor said in her press conference that "It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." The only folks who had alleged such has been the family.


The only evidence that would support knocking, would be an eye witness to such, yet none are present at this time.

The only other evidence that may be available, is of her touching the door. Which really would not indicate whether done by knock or bang.

The prosecution, adopted exactly what the family had been alleging (that she had been knocking), none of whom were there.

All we really have is the eye witnesses account that she was banging on the door.


Here is a link to a PDF of the Police report, heavily redacted.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/835676/dearborn-case-report.pdf



And yes, her being inebriated well past the legal limit, will go directly to whether or not it is likely she was banging on the door as the only witness said.
Someone would have to be truly uneducated in the matters being discussed not to know that, as well as thinking what the Prosecutor thinks is relevant, or irrelevant, matters one bit to the defense.


For those interested, here is an interesting read about the case by Bennett L. Gershman, Professor of Law, Published at the Huff Post.
"I Didn't Mean to Kill Renisha McBride." But Does it Matter? | Bennett L. Gershman

translation: you have ZERO factual evidence to back up the lie you posted, thanks for playing facts destroy your post once again

so i will ask again

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]if you have any factual support to back up the claim that the county prosecutor adopted the knocking from the family please provide it, id love to read it so far its nothing but a lie.[/FONT]
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

As everybody can see, agent j is wrong in his assertion.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

No one said it does.
But it does go to whether or not it is likely she was banging on the door as the only witness said, or if she was knocking on the door which the family perpetrated and the Prosecutor adopted.





I will definitely agree that a drunk and/or stoned person is a lot more likely to bang on a door than a sober, not stoned person.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

"did not need to"? I guess that depends on your view. My view is that just the fact there is an 85% or greater chance she was a obama supporting liberal more than justifies it. If she was acting weird, which she was drunk and stoned, then I can see the old man being a bit edgy.

Personally, if he is a union supporting liberal, then burn him to the max and make it a twofer, if he ain't, give him a medal for helping clean up and improve America.

I don't care if I get cited.

Go **** yourself.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

translation: you have ZERO factual evidence to back up the lie you posted, thanks for playing facts destroy your post once again

so i will ask again

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]if you have any factual support to back up the claim that the county prosecutor adopted the knocking from the family please provide it, id love to read it so far its nothing but a lie.[/FONT]

As everybody can see, agent j is wrong in his assertion.

Moderator's Warning:
The baiting, flaming and personal comments need to stop. There is a way to address another poster's comments. This is not that way. Stick to the topic, address the post, not the poster and leave out the the rest.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Manslaughter, probably.... but whether voluntary or involuntary, I haven't enough info.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

I don't care if I get cited.

Go **** yourself.

You said it... I thunk it...
I am not a liberal, but this sort of trash is what is driving a wedge into the America political landscape.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

"White homeowner kills black woman"? Wtf. Total race baiting.

Maybe the girl tried to open the screen door initially.

Either way, the man acted irresponsibly.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

So far, it looks like manslaughter. He probably did not intend to kill someone before opening the door, but his actions after opening the door resulted in him shooting her. His actions, his reaction, after shooting her do not sound like it was an accident. If she was shot from a distance, it wasn't self defense. So...that leaves manslaughter--he killed her, probably on purpose, but not with malice of aforethought.

However...the victim is not without blame. I'd have a hard time with this if I was on the jury. On one hand, you can't shoot people for just being on the porch. But, you shouldn't be drunk off your ass on someone's porch at 2-3 in the morning either.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

"did not need to"? I guess that depends on your view. My view is that just the fact there is an 85% or greater chance she was a obama supporting liberal more than justifies it. If she was acting weird, which she was drunk and stoned, then I can see the old man being a bit edgy.

Personally, if he is a union supporting liberal, then burn him to the max and make it a twofer, if he ain't, give him a medal for helping clean up and improve America.
Those being your thoughts, I'd say that you, DV, have ZERO credibility....but YES to hatred and fear...and ignorance..
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

"White homeowner kills black woman"? Wtf. Total race baiting.Racist, IMO...textbook definition of....

Maybe the girl tried to open the screen door initially.

Either way, the man acted irresponsibly.
Sad , another case where "non-lethal " was necessary - but un-known...
Drunks and fools should not even have guns !
 
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