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Do You Trust the Government to Get Things Right?

Do you trust the government to get things right?

  • Total voters
    41
LowDown

LowDown

Curmudgeon
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
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Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Watching the movie "Miracle on 42nd Street" I was struck by the climax scene in which the US Post Office was lauded as an institution that always gets it right. Since they delivered mail addressed to Santa Claus to the fellow on trial then that fellow must indeed be Santa, the judge concludes.

The men back then all wore hats and the women all wore gloves, but the trust they had for the government and its institutions was the most striking of the anachronisms on display in that movie.

From then to now it has been a steady course of degeneration, not only of the trust in government but of all sorts of institutions.

Neither the left nor the right trusts government these days. Some on the left think that the Pentagon shot a passenger jet down with a guided missile, executed the inside job known as 9-11, framed a football player for killing his wife, engineered the assassination of JFK, and on and on. Some on the right think that their tax monies are mostly wasted, that green projects are scams, that climate change is a scam. And some from both sides think that their democracy is manipulated by powerful interests.

Nevertheless, there is a marked asymmetry in reliance that the left and right have on government.
 
LowDown said:
Watching the movie "Miracle on 42nd Street" I was struck by the climax scene in which the US Post Office was lauded as an institution that always gets it right. Since they delivered mail addressed to Santa Claus to the fellow on trial then that fellow must indeed be Santa, the judge concludes.

The men back then all wore hats and the women all wore gloves, but the trust they had for the government and its institutions was the most striking of the anachronisms on display in that movie.

From then to now it has been a steady course of degeneration, not only of the trust in government but of all sorts of institutions.

Neither the left nor the right trusts government these days. Some on the left think that the Pentagon shot a passenger jet down with a guided missile, executed the inside job known as 9-11, framed a football player for killing his wife, engineered the assassination of JFK, and on and on. Some on the right think that their tax monies are mostly wasted, that green projects are scams, that climate change is a scam. And some from both sides think that their democracy is manipulated by powerful interests.

Nevertheless, there is a marked asymmetry in reliance that the left and right have on government.
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Miracle on 42nd Street. I imagine there have always been kooks that don't trust their government. These kooks just have more opportunities to communicate today. Their message may seem loud but that doesn't make it normal.

Look at the barrage of congressmen, senators and even local politicians that repeatedly get re-elected. I think people trust their government today. The silent majority have no recent to complain. The losing side is really pissed off because they are losing. They usually end up making the most noise.
 
LowDown said:
The men back then all wore hats and the women all wore gloves, but the trust they had for the government and its institutions was the most striking of the anachronisms on display in that movie.
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That is actually a really great way of putting it. The public's trust in the government has definately waned in recent years (recent to me is relative, I'm speaking recent as in the 50s), and I think it rally has had an impact on whether we can really trust the institution of elected officials.
I've always had the thought that people are elected, promising to enact change and create the govenment into a trustworthy body of people, but seemingly fail when they must accord with an arbitrary line in the sand.
 
LowDown said:
.Nevertheless, there is a marked asymmetry in reliance that the left and right have on government.
Click to expand...

Generally, I trust government with things we want to have less of: crime, pollution, foreign aggressions...Coercive force has its uses. With things we want more of, I'd rather rely on the markets and voluntary associations within the society.
 
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so i voted no but really its more of a in somethings than no. Consider that for every screw up we hear about there are hundreds for laws that go through congress.
 
Get things right is a tough one. For me no, but if it's to transfer wealth from hard working successful people to low life scum that won't bother trying ...yeah they'll probably succeed.
 
Our federal gov't may be getting bigger and it may be getting slower but it sure is getting expensive.
 
I guess if I look to the past I can see the government doesn't usually do the right thing. They waste to much, and all to often try to legislate by idioligy not sanity.
 
A government is comprised of people. The trustworthiness of any group is just about the people in it. Fill the government with trustworthy people, and it will be a trustworthy institution. Of course, how we shape such an institution affects what sort of people will be a part of it. Right now, it's a stepping stone to personal gain and lucrative deals with private interests. Change the rules, and patriots will flock to serve their country.
 
Paschendale said:
A government is comprised of people. The trustworthiness of any group is just about the people in it. Fill the government with trustworthy people, and it will be a trustworthy institution. Of course, how we shape such an institution affects what sort of people will be a part of it. Right now, it's a stepping stone to personal gain and lucrative deals with private interests. Change the rules, and patriots will flock to serve their country.
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Yes, subtract out private interests, capitalists, and things will be all rainbows and moonbeams, like the old Soviet Union, where commissars and apparatchiks were ferried about in limousines, went to special medical clinics, shopped in exclusive stores, and spent their vacations in special dachas on the Black Sea. No private interests there, yet the operatives of the state developed their own class interests to the detriment of everyone else anyway. Such patriots they were!
 
LowDown said:
Yes, subtract out private interests, capitalists, and things will be all rainbows and moonbeams, like the old Soviet Union, where commissars and apparatchiks were ferried about in limousines, went to special medical clinics, shopped in exclusive stores, and spent their vacations in special dachas on the Black Sea. No private interests there, yet the operatives of the state developed their own class interests to the detriment of everyone else anyway. Such patriots they were!
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I think what he was saying is that there is far too much outside influence and financial gain to be made by outside parties to ever get an honest person into office. I agree with that. Most of our politicians nowadays are bought and paid for as soon as they step into office. This is not the way the founders intended it to be. By any stretch of the imagination.
 
LowDown said:
Watching the movie "Miracle on 42nd Street" I was struck by the climax scene in which the US Post Office was lauded as an institution that always gets it right. Since they delivered mail addressed to Santa Claus to the fellow on trial then that fellow must indeed be Santa, the judge concludes.

The men back then all wore hats and the women all wore gloves, but the trust they had for the government and its institutions was the most striking of the anachronisms on display in that movie.

From then to now it has been a steady course of degeneration, not only of the trust in government but of all sorts of institutions.

Neither the left nor the right trusts government these days. Some on the left think that the Pentagon shot a passenger jet down with a guided missile, executed the inside job known as 9-11, framed a football player for killing his wife, engineered the assassination of JFK, and on and on. Some on the right think that their tax monies are mostly wasted, that green projects are scams, that climate change is a scam. And some from both sides think that their democracy is manipulated by powerful interests.

Nevertheless, there is a marked asymmetry in reliance that the left and right have on government.
Click to expand...

I believe that the Congressional relationship with lobbyists is bribery and is illegal. Let's enforce the law to initiate change. If everyone agrees it's wrong, why is there no effort by Congressmen to make change? We are not making enough noise. Occupy started to make a little and we found out who the police work for. Maybe it is too late to save it.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I think what he was saying is that there is far too much outside influence and financial gain to be made by outside parties to ever get an honest person into office. I agree with that. Most of our politicians nowadays are bought and paid for as soon as they step into office. This is not the way the founders intended it to be. By any stretch of the imagination.
Click to expand...

In referring to "patriots" who step in when "private interests" are removed I take him as echoing the old progressive assumption that public servants are incorruptible angels among us as opposed to those evil, selfish capitalists and businessmen. I'm saying there's no such animal, neither in the public nor private spheres. The Constitution was designed to keep everyone in check through a system of checks and balances, a system that assumes the worst about human nature, and that is what is needed in all aspects of government, including in regulatory bodies where it is currently missing. The Executive Branch has gotten so large and so much rule making and discretion in enforcement has been delegated to it that it no longer is subject to those constitutional controls.
 
DaveFagan said:
I believe that the Congressional relationship with lobbyists is bribery and is illegal. Let's enforce the law to initiate change. If everyone agrees it's wrong, why is there no effort by Congressmen to make change? We are not making enough noise. Occupy started to make a little and we found out who the police work for. Maybe it is too late to save it.
Click to expand...

All efforts to control political speech are self serving hypocrisy and should be rebuked and proscribed.
 
LowDown said:
Yes, subtract out private interests, capitalists, and things will be all rainbows and moonbeams, like the old Soviet Union, where commissars and apparatchiks were ferried about in limousines, went to special medical clinics, shopped in exclusive stores, and spent their vacations in special dachas on the Black Sea. No private interests there, yet the operatives of the state developed their own class interests to the detriment of everyone else anyway. Such patriots they were!
Click to expand...

I don't know if you ever noticed, but this isn't the Soviet Union, and we have a lot of traditions of freedom that they didn't, and we care a whole lot more about those freedoms than they ever did. This country couldn't turn into a tyrannical state like the USSR if it tried. As much as you might like to invoke that hyperbole, it's complete nonsense.
 
LowDown said:
Some on the left think that the Pentagon shot a passenger jet down with a guided missile, executed the inside job known as 9-11, framed a football player for killing his wife, engineered the assassination of JFK, and on and on.
Click to expand...

LowDown said:
Some on the right think that their tax monies are mostly wasted, that green projects are scams, that climate change is a scam.
Click to expand...

are you kidding me? The way you worded this is so irrational, I don't even know where to start.
You're clearly portraying the left as illogical, moronic conspiracy theorists, and you make
the right sound like a sensible, levelheaded party.

Your bias is showing.
 
I voted Salmon because I from the Pacific Northwest.



Thats on topic since it was a choice in this poll :p

On the other part though, no one is supposed to just trust their government we are supposed to tend it with vigilance. But some people think that all fault lies on the politicians they dont know/realize/care/or whatever that it takes work by the citizens to run a country, dont leave it all up to partisan hacks.
 
Republicans and those on the right hate government only when it does things that they don't want it to do like: help the poor in someone else's state, build infrastructure in neighborhoods they don't live in, or when a Democratic President spends money on vacations or foreign diplomatic trips.

Democrats and those on the left put too much faith in too many government institutions. The Dept of Education is an absolute joke and the EPA has overreached a lot.

But both parties generally love war and curbing freedom of information so they'll generally agree on limiting the internet freedoms people have come to cherish so there's always that.
 
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If this poll is a representation of the voting population we should see quite a few newcomers elected in 2014.
 
LowDown said:
Watching the movie "Miracle on 42nd Street" I was struck by the climax scene in which the US Post Office was lauded as an institution that always gets it right. Since they delivered mail addressed to Santa Claus to the fellow on trial then that fellow must indeed be Santa, the judge concludes.

The men back then all wore hats and the women all wore gloves, but the trust they had for the government and its institutions was the most striking of the anachronisms on display in that movie.

From then to now it has been a steady course of degeneration, not only of the trust in government but of all sorts of institutions.

Neither the left nor the right trusts government these days. Some on the left think that the Pentagon shot a passenger jet down with a guided missile, executed the inside job known as 9-11, framed a football player for killing his wife, engineered the assassination of JFK, and on and on. Some on the right think that their tax monies are mostly wasted, that green projects are scams, that climate change is a scam. And some from both sides think that their democracy is manipulated by powerful interests.

Nevertheless, there is a marked asymmetry in reliance that the left and right have on government.
Click to expand...

I grew up in the 50's and back then the majority of Americans did trust their government to do the right thing. Also the old saying, "Close enough for government work," was a compliment if your business could say that. Of course govenment was 100 times smaller, but government workers back then took pride in being a government worker and the work done was among the best.

Today if you work for the government, you are presumed lazy, have a cushy job, and think the civilian population out there are there to service you instead of you providing a service to them.
 
Perotista said:
I grew up in the 50's and back then the majority of Americans did trust their government to do the right thing. Also the old saying, "Close enough for government work," was a compliment if your business could say that. Of course govenment was 100 times smaller, but government workers back then took pride in being a government worker and the work done was among the best.

Today if you work for the government, you are presumed lazy, have a cushy job, and think the civilian population out there are there to service you instead of you providing a service to them.
Click to expand...

I have noticed that the BMV is doing a lot better on the "friendly" side. They actually smile occasionally now! :mrgreen:
 
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