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Minimum drop out age

Sould the drop out grade be lowered

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 28.6%

  • Keep it the same

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • the grade shouldent exist and they should stay in school till 12th grade

    Votes: 18 51.4%
  • Total voters
    35
Helix said:
there's no good reason to let kids drop out
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If the school is wasting the student's precious time, isn't that good enough reason?

Why or, why not??
 
PirateMk1 said:
They affect you directly how? If you keep supporting then yes they do affect your pocketbook. If you don't wish your pocketbook to be affected stop supporting them. They are able to make stupid decisions because there is no consequence to their actions. Stop absorbing the consequence then more will stop being stupid. There is a certain amount of stupid people no amount of help or cohersion is going dissuade them from being stupid. Free society cant be free from making poor decisions otherwise its not free.
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dropouts affect me by :

being more likely to end up in jail
being more likely to end up on medicaid
being more likely to end up on welfare
being more likely to end up on food stamps

and by being more likely to not possess essential skills for self sufficiency.

a free society requires responsibility and preparation. what we're doing now isn't working. it's not too much to ask a citizen to complete high school. there is no good reason to allow minors to drop out of school.
 
So a teenager doesn't want to be in school and is failing because of it, so the solution is to force them to stay? Ah...no
 
Helix said:
dropouts affect me by :

being more likely to end up in jail
being more likely to end up on medicaid
being more likely to end up on welfare
being more likely to end up on food stamps

and by being more likely to not possess essential skills for self sufficiency.

a free society requires responsibility and preparation. what we're doing now isn't working. it's not too much to ask a citizen to complete high school. there is no good reason to allow minors to drop out of school.
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By definition a free society requires freedom.
 
Muhammed said:
If the school is wasting the student's precious time, isn't that good enough reason?

Why or, why not??
Click to expand...

education is weightlifting for the mind. it is impossible to "waste time" strengthening the intellect of kids whose brains are achieving maturity.

they can at least finish high school.
 
Drop outs become criminals and welfare recipients. They have an obligation to society to succeed.
 
Henrin said:
By definition a free society requires freedom.
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and responsibility is essential for the preservation of freedom. you know why we have so many laws for you to rage against? because irresponsible, selfish idiots ruined it for the whole class. developing one's intellect reduces the chance of being an idiot who is going to generate more laws to rage against. this is a key point that libertarians never seem to accept. i suppose that's part of why i'm no longer a libertarian.

there is no good reason to let kids drop out of school.
 
Helix said:
dropouts affect me by :

being more likely to end up in jail
being more likely to end up on medicaid
being more likely to end up on welfare
being more likely to end up on food stamps

and by being more likely to not possess essential skills for self sufficiency.

a free society requires responsibility and preparation. what we're doing now isn't working. it's not too much to ask a citizen to complete high school. there is no good reason to allow minors to drop out of school.
Click to expand...

Three of the problems caused by dropouts aren't caused by them, they are caused by you.

High school today does not provide the tools necessary for self sufficiency. It is inadequate at best.

A free society also implies people will NOT be responsible.

By the way what you propose isn't asking its forcing, that's big difference. Perhaps if you want them to complete high school maybe you should think about utilizing honey instead of vinegar. Honey seems to always get more flies.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062537321 said:
Drop outs become criminals and welfare recipients. They have an obligation to society to succeed.
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They have NO obligation to anyone even themselves.
 
Muhammed said:
If the school is wasting the student's precious time, isn't that good enough reason?

Why or, why not??
Click to expand...

Ohh I leaned something new today. Thnx. :mrgreen: I will fill this away with BOHICA and FUBAR and SNAFU and BUFF.

Reference to post 50 sorry.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Three of the problems caused by dropouts aren't caused by them, they are caused by you.

High school today does not provide the tools necessary for self sufficiency. It is inadequate at best.

A free society also implies people will NOT be responsible.

By the way what you propose isn't asking its forcing, that's big difference. Perhaps if you want them to complete high school maybe you should think about utilizing honey instead of vinegar. Honey seems to always get more flies.
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i'm open to incentivising the completion of high school. however, i'm still not for allowing a minor to drop out. it's just plain dumb. many of the issues conservatives rage against are compounded by people who drop out of high school. we should be in complete agreement on this issue.
 
Helix said:
i'm open to incentivising the completion of high school. however, i'm still not for allowing a minor to drop out. it's just plain dumb. many of the issues conservatives rage against are compounded by people who drop out of high school. we should be in complete agreement on this issue.
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I am not conservative. I am liberal as in classic. I don't even believe there should be such a thing as public schools or that schooling of any kind should be compulsory. These problems are a RESULT of public schooling. If you wish to cure the dropout rate and have children complete schooling then perhaps making worth their while would work.
Quite frankly public schooling is a joke, and a bad one at that. I for one refuse to send my children to them. I prefer to use tutors. The results are far superior.
 
PirateMk1 said:
I am not conservative. I am liberal as in classic. I don't even believe there should be such a thing as public schools or that schooling of any kind should be compulsory. These problems are a RESULT of public schooling. If you wish to cure the dropout rate and have children complete schooling then perhaps making worth their while would work.
Quite frankly public schooling is a joke, and a bad one at that. I for one refuse to send my children to them. I prefer to use tutors. The results are far superior.
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i bolded a sentence in your quote to seek clarification.

so, your argument is that we should change our current education system to allow parents to opt out completely? in other words, it should be an option to have completely illiterate children who have no education whatsoever?
 
PirateMk1 said:
I am not conservative. I am liberal as in classic. I don't even believe there should be such a thing as public schools or that schooling of any kind should be compulsory. These problems are a RESULT of public schooling. If you wish to cure the dropout rate and have children complete schooling then perhaps making worth their while would work.
Quite frankly public schooling is a joke, and a bad one at that. I for one refuse to send my children to them. I prefer to use tutors. The results are far superior.
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Well, then come out of your "Private" leaning closet and join those of us who are proud to show their lean as a true liberal...
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062537321 said:
Drop outs become criminals and welfare recipients. They have an obligation to society to succeed.
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haha..so people in general then have an obligation to you to succeed in their lives. How absurd.
 
Helix said:
and responsibility is essential for the preservation of freedom. you know why we have so many laws for you to rage against? because irresponsible, selfish idiots ruined it for the whole class. developing one's intellect reduces the chance of being an idiot who is going to generate more laws to rage against. this is a key point that libertarians never seem to accept. i suppose that's part of why i'm no longer a libertarian.

there is no good reason to let kids drop out of school.
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I see, so if responsibility is essential to preserve freedom, we must make people less free, so that people are responsible, so that in turn we preserve freedom. Wow, that makes no sense at all.
 
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I'm not only talking about The possibility of a violent act, but how many disrupt the class to the point where others have a hard time learning. I would imagine more should be done with scared straight programs for kids who are messing up big time. Have them live in complete poverty for a few days or spend a few days in a prison cell.
The Mark said:
So put them in a special class. With armed guards for the teacher, or something.
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Helix said:
i bolded a sentence in your quote to seek clarification.

so, your argument is that we should change our current education system to allow parents to opt out completely? in other words, it should be an option to have completely illiterate children who have no education whatsoever?
Click to expand...

Schooling until the late 1800's and early 1900's was NOT compulsory for the most part and reading and education rates went though the roof. Today in order to use pretty much ANY electronic devise you must learn to read. Period. There is no real getting around it. If public schooling were stopped today I suspect that the reading rates would stay the same or increase.

Schooling via the public schooling system amounts to no more than public indoctrination. There very little real value in it. It is designed to provide minimally educated workers, not thinkers or business people. Universities are starting to break now as they used to bastions for critical thinking and now are less and less so. Most of which that is taught in public school can be taught by the parents of the children. The rest can be done by tutors or the internet. Parents can easily best schools by providing practical experience for their children utilizing their new found skills. A far superior education can be had at a fraction of the cost currently spent by public institutions. For those that don't or wont get educated, well so far the world still needs ditch diggers.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Well, then come out of your "Private" leaning closet and join those of us who are proud to show their lean as a true liberal...
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Some of what I believe is not so easily classified. The foundation of my beliefs is the concept of self sovereignty, everything else flows form that view.
 
High school as it is today is a joke. Reading, writing, math, history and science should be taught K-9 and grades 10 - 12 should be prep education to go on to college for those who qualify and trade school for those who don't.

Teens without direction get into too much trouble, so definitely no, dropping out should not be a choice until they are 18.
 
Henrin said:
I see, so if responsibility is essential to preserve freedom, we must make people less free, so that people are responsible, so that in turn we preserve freedom. Wow, that makes no sense at all.
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education is key in creating responsible individuals who contribute to a stable society. a stable and responsible society requires less legislation to maintain. freedom depends on responsibility.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Schooling until the late 1800's and early 1900's was NOT compulsory for the most part and reading and education rates went though the roof. Today in order to use pretty much ANY electronic devise you must learn to read. Period. There is no real getting around it. If public schooling were stopped today I suspect that the reading rates would stay the same or increase.

Schooling via the public schooling system amounts to no more than public indoctrination. There very little real value in it. It is designed to provide minimally educated workers, not thinkers or business people. Universities are starting to break now as they used to bastions for critical thinking and now are less and less so. Most of which that is taught in public school can be taught by the parents of the children. The rest can be done by tutors or the internet. Parents can easily best schools by providing practical experience for their children utilizing their new found skills. A far superior education can be had at a fraction of the cost currently spent by public institutions. For those that don't or wont get educated, well so far the world still needs ditch diggers.
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so, again, your argument is that there should be no minimal educational requirement?
 
Helix said:
so, again, your argument is that there should be no minimal educational requirement?
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No requirements whatsoever.
 
PirateMk1 said:
No requirements whatsoever.
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ok. there is simply no way that we will find common ground. i'm not judging your opinion, but i disagree with it completely. a subclass of illiterate individuals relegated to that status by their parents or by their own immaturity is a concept that i cannot support. i do appreciate you answering the question directly and honestly, however.
 
Helix said:
education is weightlifting for the mind. it is impossible to "waste time" strengthening the intellect of kids whose brains are achieving maturiity.
Click to expand...
Bull****. You are being extremely presumptuous when you insinuate that all students can be educated by SADFIs.
 
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