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Do You Have A Right To Buy Crap?

Do You Have A Right To Buy Crap?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 88.4%
  • No

    Votes: 5 11.6%

  • Total voters
    43
How brave of you to accept the consequences of your actions. Except that going bankrupt and not paying you medical bills does not fix anything. It just moves the expense on to the rest of us.

So it is somehow better to add 15% to 20% "private" insurance overhead to that amount?
 
What the "scheme" requires besides GDP growth is growth in wages across the board, not like it's been under the supply side BS of the last 30 years. The incredible wage growth of the 1% is unsustainable anyway, and taxing some of that away is not going to hurt anything. The good news is that you will still have a place here in a growing middle class again. That might not be true in the archaic world you envision.

Yes, I understand the Progressive Meme is life as we know it began to dissolve immediately after Ronald Reagan first took the oath of office. Such a tired and intellecually dishonest bit of Progressive Machine BS.

The incredible wage growth in a small percentage of people is a direct approach to actions brought forth through labor actions that began in the late '50's, and regulatory incrementalism. When the massive public employee pension plans along with private 401k type plans began to dictate returns on investment through their dominating positions in hedge funds, big publicly traded corporations had no choice but to push profits harder. The combination of regulatory incrementalism, and demand for profits pushed jobs offshore.

The Progressive Machine has no interest in the middle class, that's just the carrot used to keep the indoctrinated interested in the machines shiney objects, and not their results.

All a person has to do to see what is really going on with Progressivism is to look at California over the last 15 years. It will take 2 - 3 generations to fix the damage.

How is it possible to have a state with everything California has going for it, and end up with the highest state taxes in the country, one third of the nations welfare cases, and among the highest unemployment of any state in the Country?

Well, just put Progressives in charge.
 
Apparently we DO have a right to buy crap - in this case, ideological crap. And fwiw, I totally support your right to buy it.

You say that untill your kid loses both kidneys and dies because of the milk mans profits. (like happened in China- unlimited capitalism paradise)
 
The question really doesn't apply to healthcare because if you do buy a crap policy and then need care that you're not covered for and can't afford you go to the ER, which by law can't turn you away, and someone else - taxpayers, owners of the hospital - pay for your care, and ER's are a horribly expensive way to dispense healthcare. If you want to do away with that requirement then I'm good with it. Buy a policy that doesn't meet your needs and live with the consequences. Otherwise I don't have a huge problem with mandating minimum standards for health insurance.

Doesn't necessarily mean I agree with Obamacare btw. I really don't. In the case of Obamacare the point of the minimum standards are more to artifically inflate the policyholder pool to spread costs around to people who aren't liable to use particular coverages and thus subsidize the cost for other policyholders.

How many times are people going to repeat the same misinformation about ER visits? The ER can, and does turn people away. If it's not classed a medical emergency and you can't pay - you can be (and often are) turned away. This lie that the ER is some sort of catchall has got to stop.
 
Is this bull**** thread still going on? The administration lied about being able to keep your insurance and now their cover response is "well...so what if we lied, the policies that are being cancelled were all crap anyway"...which is...bull****. Any excuse, anything to cover the lie. Toss it out there and the muppets will spread the gospel.
 
I was reading this article on CBC form their Washington correspondent and I found it rather interesting. It talks about Obamacare and Obama saying if you like your policy you can keep it. People are complaining that their old policies are being cancelled by Obamacare because they are substandard, while the reason they are substandard is that they are crap and provide no real protection from healthcare costs.

THis quote illustatres the point very nicely:




All Obamacare does is prevent people from being screwed by insurance companies because then everyone else has to pick up the tab. He goes on to say how is it different than requiring car insurance or banks having to have insurance to protect themselves form bad loans. After all the banks chose to finance sub-prime mortgages it is their fault, but we ended up having to pay for it the end same happens with healthcare.

Leaving any opposition or support of the ACA out and simply asking "Do we have a right to buy crap?" I think the answer is yes. Lets use a more generic model for the crap to get emotion-based politics out of it like a brand new but piece of crap car as our "crap" model.

This car looks nice on the outside, but to be honest its junk. I don't think anyone would intentionally want to buy crap if they had a choice. However things like unfair monopolies, maybe other options being cost prohibitive, being stuck in a poor credit cycle, young and naive (been there,) and even females reported are charged more for identical cars than any other demographic if they show up without a male companion. Enter the government to offer consumer protections. Some people support that. My state has lemon laws that allow people to return cars for a full refund if they have chronic mechanical problems. Lack of warranty sales must be clearly disclosed. That said, I think the private sector consumer protection services, although not identical in what they provide, offer greater benefits in many cases.
 
You have that backwards. The whole purpose of liberal policies is to place the burden of your failure to accept responsibility for your actions on someone else. That includes Obamacare.

That's ridiculous, the ACA includes a mandate that everyone must carry health insurance. A mandate that you hate because?
 
That's ridiculous, the ACA includes a mandate that everyone must carry health insurance. A mandate that you hate because?

As has been expressed ad infinitum, the mandate part.
 
The fact is that Obamacare is the biggest CRAP of all.
 
So you don't understand how bad policies that don't pay cost the rest of us money? That is not very smart is it?
I count five questions in my post - none of which you can, or will answer; so why should I answer your puerile misrepresentation of them?
 
You say that untill your kid loses both kidneys and dies because of the milk mans profits. (like happened in China- unlimited capitalism paradise)
Notwithstanding China is a communist nation, this isn't China (at least it isn't yet).
 
LOL You are defending bankers. Bankers that have already paid billions in fines for their unscrupulous actions. Why do you think they are just folding and paying the fines without appeal? Are they stupid too?
Have you ever asked yourself what would prompt someone in the business of lending money to lend money to someone they knew couldn't repay it?
 
To get insurance costs down everyone (Including the very healthy.) must have health insurance.

All of that has been debated here over and over again, and some agree while others disagree with you. My response was to iguanaman's question which was a rehash of so many threads.
 
That's ridiculous, the ACA includes a mandate that everyone must carry health insurance. A mandate that you hate because?
What part of mandate don't you understand?
 
Have you ever asked yourself what would prompt someone in the business of lending money to lend money to someone they knew couldn't repay it?

Of course. The answer is when you can bundle and resell that loan to some sucker for another commission by lying about its safety and then place bets (called CDS's) that the loan will fail and make even more money when it does. You do realize that bankers took RECORD bonuses during the boom and now they are paying fines for there misdeads that don't begin to dent the profits they made? You also must know the GW. Bush sold $440 Billion of those stinkers to Fannie Mae in 2002 to kick off the housing bubble?

Fannie and Freddie were just another investor for the banks to swindle. GW Bush himself turned bankers shill and boasted that he got Fannie to commit to 440 Billion $ to buy the new subprimes in his 2002 "Minority Housing Initiative Program." He even evoked 911 and promised that the plan would "turn incredible evil into incredible good," I swear, I'm not making that up. Heres ole GW himself with the bit about Fannie in 2002


And so, therefore, I've called -- yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I'm proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it's about $440 billion over a period of time. They've used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we're talking about here. It's in their charter; it now needs to be implemented. Freddie Mac is interested in helping. I appreciate both of those agencies providing the underpinnings of good capital.HUD Archives: President George W. Bush Speaks to HUD Employees on National Homeownership Month (6/18/02)


Can you believe he actually said "It's in their charter, it NOW needs to be implemented"? If you know why?, it all will make sense. Anyway there's plenty more, but I fear your brain might explode.
 
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To get insurance costs down everyone (Including the very healthy.) must have health insurance.

Mostly because those 1000's of those "very healthy" individuals end up in the hospital every year. No one is immune to accidents or sudden illness.
 
Mostly because those 1000's of those "very healthy" individuals end up in the hospital every year. No one is immune to accidents or sudden illness.

Indeed and most of them pay the full bill for it too. Sometimes it takes them quite a while to do so. The wiser ones insurance up after that. Some are willing to pay as they go. Their choice is NOT a federal call any more than requiring flood or earthquake insurance is.
 
How many times are people going to repeat the same misinformation about ER visits? The ER can, and does turn people away. If it's not classed a medical emergency and you can't pay - you can be (and often are) turned away. This lie that the ER is some sort of catchall has got to stop.

Really. I didn't know that. I've been told this several times. Will have to research it myself when I have a few minutes
 
Really. I didn't know that. I've been told this several times. Will have to research it myself when I have a few minutes

When I was studying for my LVN I worked part of the time at the ER admitting desk of a major California hospital. ERs are only are required by law to take life threatening medical emergency cases. However, most ERs will take you for more minor ailments if you can demonstrate the ability to pay (insurance or credit) and they aren't stacked at the time.

Here's the law on the subject:

Non-covered medical conditions[edit]
Not all medical problems are covered by EMTALA, meaning that a person cannot assume that if they are ill, they will be treated. Specifically, EMTALA does not cover non-emergency situations. The hospital is allowed to determine that there is no emergency, using their normal screening procedure, and then refuse EMTALA treatment
 
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Indeed and most of them pay the full bill for it too. Sometimes it takes them quite a while to do so. The wiser ones insurance up after that. Some are willing to pay as they go. Their choice is NOT a federal call any more than requiring flood or earthquake insurance is.

A lot of times they don't pay too, and then we all foot the bill. Don't forget the ones that have insurance but are bankrupted because their insurance won't pay. The mandate eliminates all insurers excuses to deny payment.
 
When I was studying for my LVN I worked part of the time at the ER admitting desk of a major California hospital. ERs are only are required by law to take life threatening medical emergency cases. However, most ERs will take you for more minor ailments if you can demonstrate the ability to pay (insurance or credit) and they aren't stacked at the time.

Here's the law on the subject:

Thanks. Interestingly enough the Wikipedia article did note that something like 55% of ER visits go unpaid so in any case hospitals must be taking a bath on ER visits.
 
Thanks. Interestingly enough the Wikipedia article did note that something like 55% of ER visits go unpaid so in any case hospitals must be taking a bath on ER visits.

That's a highly debated statistic. What they are not saying is that they're lumping insurance underpayment in with those figures. Also they ignore any cost recouping from debt collection.
 
A lot of times they don't pay too, and then we all foot the bill. Don't forget the ones that have insurance but are bankrupted because their insurance won't pay. The mandate eliminates all insurers excuses to deny payment.

Nah, it really doesn't. The insurance companies still have excluded procedures. ERs are infamous for going ahead with excluded procedures. Hospital admins are always on them about it.
 
Notwithstanding China is a communist nation, this isn't China (at least it isn't yet).

China is not Communist. China is unregulated capitalism. that is why all the capitalists in USA are going there...................
 
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