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Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 45.2%
  • No

    Votes: 34 54.8%

  • Total voters
    62
The last thing this country needs is our teaching populace being held to higher standards.

Hyperbole would leave me to say its like being a Priest without the spiritual benefits and prestige.
 
In other countries being a teachers are held to a higher standard. People aspire to be teachers, not just fall back on it when all else fails. Thats what we need here

No, there is a sense of mission in many teacher colleges and in the schools. It may or may not be felt by individual teacher-candidates or teachers, but it's pretty damn hard not to notice. I'm assuming that in many or most public schools, the beginning of the school year (for the instructors that is) is one or two days of professional aggrandizement (perhaps to get them prepped for the year, before it sucks the life out of them). Then in other settings, say conferences or local and state government issues, you better not upset a teacher by critiquing any sort of common practice. It's not usually a passive matter to them. Sometimes after they get out of conferences, it's sometimes like the after-effects of a Party convention.

That's not to demean the profession or those that practice it. It's a matter of perspective I developed after being a former client, turned teacher-candidate, turned researcher. Each side (be it student, parent, service provider, advocacy organization, administrator, teacher, politician) in the whole process has its own professional or institutionalized quirks.
 
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So basically, avoid Mexico at all costs. Drugs, cartels, government corruption, and bad schools :p

I can't comment on the schools, but I just enjoyed a very nice vacation in the San Miguel De Allende region, one of several areas where many older USA citizens now live. The locals are very nice, mellow people, and the crime rate was relatively low. (people didn't always lock their bikes in public places) Not all of Mexico is the same.
 
I can't comment on the schools, but I just enjoyed a very nice vacation in the San Miguel De Allende region, one of several areas where many older USA citizens now live. The locals are very nice, mellow people, and the crime rate was relatively low. (people didn't always lock their bikes in public places) Not all of Mexico is the same.

Granted.
 
The last thing this country needs is our teaching populace being held to higher standards.

im not talking about standardization, im talking about actually making their job worth while. You can almost make more on welfare in some places than you get from working as a teacher.
 
Despite what you may have heard, that's what we have here.
i'd disagree. No young people aspire to be a teacher. they do it because its a sure job and a source of income. They have no true passion for teaching.
 
Let's put things into perspective here.
A new college grad who decides to opt for a teaching career has at least a year more of school ahead before even applying. Should he/she make the investment, including a student teaching semester in which no other job is possible (no time), and add another ten or twenty grand to the student loan debt, then he/she may apply to a school, along with a hundred or so other applicants. Should he/she be hired, then it's time to discover just how a lot of kids have been raised. It's a matter of sink or swim in most schools, and many sink, quit teaching, go to something else. Some get jobs in small schools where their policy is to keep teachers two years, then let them go to hire cheaper new grads. Some get jobs in charter schools where they are at will employees, and where the school may or may not be in business next year.

I started a teaching career in 1966, when there was a severe shortage of teachers and you could actually work on a credential while teaching and getting a paycheck. I stayed with it until 2001, when I was able to retire with a good pension (yes, there are financial perks to teaching, and retirement is one of them).

No way would I invest the money to get a teaching credential today. Schools are run by the state now, the curriculum is test centered, and the kids could care less about the test. Nevertheless, the mindless bureaucrats in charge (MBIC) have issued the edict that every child will pass the test whether they want to or not, whether they have an IQ of 80 or 120, whether or not they just got to the US from a nation where English is not spoken and kids don't go to school, it doesn't matter, according to the MBIC, every child has to pass a difficult multiple guess test, or the teacher has failed.

I can look back on a rewarding career, but would not want to be in the trenches fighting the MBIC and the economic realities of today, no thank you, not even in a community where the gangs are not yet in charge.


It depends what a person is teaching. What it the value in the private sector for a Bachelor's degree in history, geography, art, music, history....

Do you REALLY think they make notably more than teachers in terms of salary, benefits and job security?
 
i'd disagree. No young people aspire to be a teacher. they do it because its a sure job and a source of income. They have no true passion for teaching.


Some do. So teachers really like children and really like teaching.
 
im not talking about standardization, im talking about actually making their job worth while. You can almost make more on welfare in some places than you get from working as a teacher.

If I thought that was true, then I'd argue for higher wages.

As long as a teacher makes more than 30K, I don't see a need for an adjustment.
 
i'd disagree. No young people aspire to be a teacher. they do it because its a sure job and a source of income. They have no true passion for teaching.

That would be wrong.... and most people do not aspire to the job they have. They get one because they need income. How many people havea true passion to stock shelves, file things, answer phones, repair the roads. Probably none.
 
If I thought that was true, then I'd argue for higher wages.

As long as a teacher makes more than 30K, I don't see a need for an adjustment.

Depends on where you live. 35K in CA would see you living on the streets.
 
I didn't go through all 29 pages of this thread, but I'd be interest in comments from posters like Josie, who's a teacher. Does Josie feel she'd be a better teacher if she was paid more? If so, why?
 
Fair enough. Maybe I should've described it as a percentage above minimal standard of living.

I was making almost 60K and with a wife and two babies it wasn't enough. I had to work 4 nights a week in a fine dining extablishment on top of a full time teaching load.
 
I didn't go through all 29 pages of this thread, but I'd be interest in comments from posters like Josie, who's a teacher. Does Josie feel she'd be a better teacher if she was paid more? If so, why?

I would feel as if my education level would finally be respected and I wouldn't be just "getting by" anymore. High school teaching isn't just the whiteboard. I have literally helped to save teenagers lives. Talked them out of depression glooms, helped them see what life is really about, helped turn potential and actual gnag bangers around, etc. Psychologists make hundreds and hour doing less than I do. Lawyers makes 300+ an hour losing cases. Doctors make a ton taking your temp and handing you an anti-biotic like a robot.
 
I was making almost 60K and with a wife and two babies it wasn't enough. I had to work 4 nights a week in a fine dining extablishment on top of a full time teaching load.

Well, the days of the single income household are gone, barring a truly great job. You'd have to be a doctor or lawyer to do well with one job and a wife that didn't work, along with kids.
 
Well, the days of the single income household are gone, barring a truly great job. You'd have to be a doctor or lawyer to do well with one job and a wife that didn't work, along with kids.

Agreed. And that sucks... the Keeping Up With the Joneses has ruined it for people that want a single family income lifestyle.
 
Agreed. And that sucks... the Keeping Up With the Joneses has ruined it for people that want a single family income lifestyle.

I'm just thankful I got rid of my ex-girlfriend that literally had to upgrade her phone every few months because "this one has *enter random stupid upgrade here*".
 
I'm personally disappointed with how much our educators make. IMO, they should be starting at around 100K salaries, with the due education, of course.

That's ridiculous. And I'm a teacher.
 
Here are my thoughts on this subject --

I've known veteran teachers making $70,000+ and doing jack squat. I've also known teachers making that much who work their asses off. The flip side is true too. I've known teachers making $30,000 and they're HORRIBLE teachers....then again, some are EXCELLENT teachers. Quality of teachers has little to do with pay and more to do with their work ethic. Some teachers have become so complacent and lazy in their near-retirement years. Some never have lost the joy of teaching. If we paid every teacher $100,000, the same lazy-ass teachers would still be lazy asses. The same hard-working, heart completely into it teachers wouldn't change either.

And one more thing --- the #1 problem with education BY FAR is the parents and home lives of these children.
 
I'm just thankful I got rid of my ex-girlfriend that literally had to upgrade her phone every few months because "this one has *enter random stupid upgrade here*".

I should have gotten rid of mine before I knocked her up! But I did get over ten years of torment and abuse! Well, and my two beautiful daughters.
 
I should have gotten rid of mine before I knocked her up! But I did get over ten years of torment and abuse! Well, and my two beautiful daughters.

It's amazing that you did. Usually a man can't get custody of his kids in a divorce unless he can prove that his ex-wife helped plan 9/11 or shot Kennedy.
 
I would feel as if my education level would finally be respected and I wouldn't be just "getting by" anymore. High school teaching isn't just the whiteboard. I have literally helped to save teenagers lives. Talked them out of depression glooms, helped them see what life is really about, helped turn potential and actual gnag bangers around, etc. Psychologists make hundreds and hour doing less than I do. Lawyers makes 300+ an hour losing cases. Doctors make a ton taking your temp and handing you an anti-biotic like a robot.

I don't doubt you feel very strongly about the services you offer children, and I commend you for that, but I'd make a couple of points:

1. I'm not sure about qualifications in the US, but here in Canada a doctor spends far more time and far more money to get the educational requirements necessary to be licensed to practice medicine - similarly, lawyers spend more time and money on their training.

2. Doctors and lawyers have significant overhead costs, regardless of whether they are operating on their own or if they're in a hospital/practice. Teachers are not paying for their classroom and supplies used in plying their trade.

3. Doctors and lawyers also have costs related to advertising and government mandated regulatory reporting whereas teachers complete documentation as part of the job but they don't fund it.

4. Doctors and lawyers can be sued and frequently are if their clients feel they've received inferior or unprofessional care. As a result, they must pay significantly for liability insurance, in the case of doctors often in the six figures area. Teachers, not only can't personally be sued for inferior or unprofessional care, they have a union that protects them and pays their legal fees.

5. Doctors and lawyers work year round, 10 - 15 hour days, on weekends, and are frequently on call. Teachers hours of work aren't nearly as onerous and teachers get significant time off during the year to recover and reenvigorate.

I'm retired after 30 years in education administration so I have some knowledge and sympathy for the position you advocate, but I don't think the comparisons are valid. I contend that the very best teachers I've come in contact with are ones that absolutely love teaching and have dedicated their lives to it and they are to be honored and respected. But lots of "professions" are honorable, respectable, and provide society as a whole with "priceless" benefits. I've had contact with an absolute saint who provided homecare for my mom in the last 10 years of her life and she was paid a pittance. This saint actually did save my mom's life on a couple of occasions.

I don't know what teachers are paid in your jurisdiction - I can tell you here in Toronto, elementary and secondary school teachers have a range that goes from about $35,000 for a first year teacher up to just under $100,000 for a fully qualified and experienced teacher. At least here in Toronto, the vast majority of teachers are in the upper pay brackets, with 20 plus years experience. While they constantly, continuously, carp about not being appreciated and deserving more in pay and benefits, there are precious few who give up teaching for another career. At least here in Toronto, with over 3 months of they year not teaching, teaching is a damn good career and very well compensated - it's why lots are trying to get in and few leave.
 
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Here are my thoughts on this subject --

I've known veteran teachers making $70,000+ and doing jack squat. I've also known teachers making that much who work their asses off. The flip side is true too. I've known teachers making $30,000 and they're HORRIBLE teachers....then again, some are EXCELLENT teachers. Quality of teachers has little to do with pay and more to do with their work ethic. Some teachers have become so complacent and lazy in their near-retirement years. Some never have lost the joy of teaching. If we paid every teacher $100,000, the same lazy-ass teachers would still be lazy asses. The same hard-working, heart completely into it teachers wouldn't change either.

And one more thing --- the #1 problem with education BY FAR is the parents and home lives of these children.

Thanks for your comments. I've been hoping to hear from you since I value your views on teaching and enjoy your frequent posts on your classes and the children you teach.
 
It's amazing that you did. Usually a man can't get custody of his kids in a divorce unless he can prove that his ex-wife helped plan 9/11 or shot Kennedy.

I have 40% custody. I will get 50%-100% of at least one of my daughters in a couple of years as she doesn't want to live with her mother at all. She couldn't plan anything that is any more complicated than going going to the supermarket.
 
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