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Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 45.2%

  • No

    Votes: 34 54.8%
  • Total voters
    62
Dittohead not! said:
It was the straight forward, no nonsense teachers who believed in me despite my adolescent foolishness.

No one heard of PC back in the '50's anyway. That was the era when Eisenhower's campaign against illegal immigration was officially called "operation wetback."
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What I meant by that was a teacher that taught the material and that was it. One that was not involved with the students or even openly didn't like kids. There were a lot of those.

I honestly can't remember most of my high school teachers names, other than the auto shop teacher, who made the biggest impression on me.
 
Mason66 said:
What I meant by that was a teacher that taught the material and that was it. One that was not involved with the students or even openly didn't like kids. There were a lot of those.

I honestly can't remember most of my high school teachers names, other than the auto shop teacher, who made the biggest impression on me.
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I still remember Mr. Crawford, who taught kids and geometry. I still remember a little bit of geometry, but not much, as I've found little use for it. I do remember some of the unrelated things he talked to us about.

I also remember Mr. Aaserude, who taught physics and kids. His was one of the hardest classes I took back then. He once told me that I had talent, and that if I didn't use it, he'd come back to haunt me one day.

and that is from more than 50 years ago. Not bad for a failing memory.
 
Dittohead not! said:
That is the real question, isn't it?

Don't expect the Washington bureaucrats or the denizens of ivory tower central district offices to come up with an answer any time soon.

Decentralize the schools. Let parents choose their school. the teacher who brings in customers will be a valuable asset to the school. Maybe that idea will be a start.
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I think that's a really horrible idea. How do you objectively test the school system as a whole when it's a mish-mash of different standards, different lessons and different ideas? I can imagine nothing so horrible as what you propose, where students moving from a school in one state to a school in another state may be a year ahead or a year behind because if local educational conditions, where parents are allowed to push the schools to teach whatever nonsense their religions or social customs dictate, no matter how ridiculous they are?

Pass.
 
Cephus said:
I think that's a really horrible idea. How do you objectively test the school system as a whole when it's a mish-mash of different standards, different lessons and different ideas? I can imagine nothing so horrible as what you propose, where students moving from a school in one state to a school in another state may be a year ahead or a year behind because if local educational conditions, where parents are allowed to push the schools to teach whatever nonsense their religions or social customs dictate, no matter how ridiculous they are?

Pass.
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On the other hand, centralized planning has such a great track record, and not just in education.
 
As much as there is a difference between private school and public education. They pay more in Private schools and class sizes are smaller and that attracts the better teachers.
 
Considering the best teachers I've had are without exception making $100k+ as professors, and how lousy and poorly compensated my K-12 teachers were, I'd say there's definitely a correlation. But also understand, there aren't enough PhD's to go around teaching K-12, if they're even willing to do that. Raising pay but keeping the same teachers isn't going to solve much.
 
Dittohead not! said:
On the other hand, centralized planning has such a great track record, and not just in education.
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Just like states like Texas and Kansas have such great track records in their educational standards. :roll:
 
iguanaman said:
As much as there is a difference between private school and public education. They pay more in Private schools and class sizes are smaller and that attracts the better teachers.
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You might want to do some research on that part about Private Schools paying more than Public Schools. In general I think you will find the wages less.

My sister used to teach in a private Catholic School, she made about 50% of what Public School teachers made and had "0" benefits (no medical, dental, or retirement).


(I'm talking "in general" here, there may be exception of some high end, pay out the yang private schools.)

>>>>
 
Krystov said:
It's not really intended to be a blanket statement for each and every profession, it's more of a statement saying if you can't cut it in your profession you wind up teaching. Only a few of my teachers were in the field at the same time they were teaching and they presented relevant material, but those who've been out of the field and teaching for 20 years were teaching older concepts not necessarily still valuable, and not enough in itself to allow a graduate to excel at his or her profession. In my case, software engineering requires constant training, and I was only presented with fundamentals in school, not the "right" way of doing things nor the most efficient way.
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Most teachers teach K-12 and have regular PD in order to stay current with teaching practices... it is a stupid statement. There are "bad" people in every profession. Fact.
 
iguanaman said:
As much as there is a difference between private school and public education. They pay more in Private schools and class sizes are smaller and that attracts the better teachers.
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I made far less at a top private school than I did in public... more than a few teachers did not have a teaching credential and only one had a Masters as opposed to public teachers where many have advanced degrees including Masters and Ph.D.s
 
Cephus said:
But isn't it part of the job of the teacher to instill their students with a love of learning? Lots of employees don't care about the job but it's the responsibility of the manager to make them perform well. Same deal.
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Not the same at all. If you don't like your job you can leave. Students in public school are FORCED to stay in school til they are 16. If you have an employee that isn't cutting it you fire them. You can't fire a student. There is nothing similar about the deal. Nothing at all.

My point remains intact.
 
WorldWatcher said:
You might want to do some research on that part about Private Schools paying more than Public Schools. In general I think you will find the wages less.

My sister used to teach in a private Catholic School, she made about 50% of what Public School teachers made and had "0" benefits (no medical, dental, or retirement).


(I'm talking "in general" here, there may be exception of some high end, pay out the yang private schools.)

>>>>
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As a general rule, private schools pay less and teachers there have less education. There are exceptions, of course.
 
Dittohead not! said:
WorldWatcher said:
You might want to do some research on that part about Private Schools paying more than Public Schools. In general I think you will find the wages less.

My sister used to teach in a private Catholic School, she made about 50% of what Public School teachers made and had "0" benefits (no medical, dental, or retirement).


(I'm talking "in general" here, there may be exception of some high end, pay out the yang private schools.)

>>>>
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As a general rule, private schools pay less and teachers there have less education. There are exceptions, of course.
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She loved teaching there, but at some point had to leave. She felt she'd rolled the dice enough without being able to afford medical insurnace and needed to start building a retirement plan so in her late 20's she took a teaching job in the public sector.



>>>>
 
Zariak said:
I'm personally disappointed with how much our educators make. IMO, they should be starting at around 100K salaries, with the due education, of course.

But, there's always the nagging thought in my head that tells me there might not even be any correlation between education quality and teacher pay.

I think we can all agree that our education system needs fixing. What do you think?
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Don't you think everyone should make at least $100,000 per year? :roll:

Of course all teachers shouldn't be paid a minimal $100K salary. There is exactly NOTHING showing doing so would improve education whatsoever. It would make more sense to think it would attract gold-diggers who don't give a damn about education children and only want the $$$.

Of course, you certainly have no suggestion how to pay for that either, do you? Raise property/school taxes 100% more?
 
I have yet to see anyone post ANY proof that other countries have better educational systems because their teachers are paid more. Have you?
 
Cephus said:
Just like states like Texas and Kansas have such great track records in their educational standards. :roll:
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Those states have centralized systems.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Not the same at all. If you don't like your job you can leave. Students in public school are FORCED to stay in school til they are 16. If you have an employee that isn't cutting it you fire them. You can't fire a student. There is nothing similar about the deal. Nothing at all.

My point remains intact.
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18 in some states.
 
joko104 said:
Those states have centralized systems.
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Centralized but not nationalized. I really want a national curriculum, refreshed every 10 years, where the best educators and scientists in the nation come together and agree on a single base curriculum for every school in the nation so that everyone in 10th grade is learning the same things as everyone else in 10th grade and a kid can leave one school in California and go to a school in Maryland and have the same general thing going on. The problem with the current system is states like Texas and California can hold the entire nation hostage by adopting bizarre school curriculums. Take the current Texas stupidity. Because of their textbook buying power, they can essentially screw up the education of many other states. Luckily, all 14 textbook publishers have told Texas where they can shove their new curriculum, which is a good thing. Now Texas can't get textbooks that reflect their idiotic ideas.
 
a351 said:
I don't necessarily believe that raises handed out to current teachers would result in enhanced performance, but wage hikes in the field in general would likely do much to lure brighter minds away from more lucrative fields.
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Do we really need brighter minds though?

At the end of the day, first grade is first grade. I certainly believe more parental involvement would go along way to improving the education of a first grader but I don't know if requiring IQs north of 150 will amount to much.
 
Cephus said:
Centralized but not nationalized. I really want a national curriculum, refreshed every 10 years, where the best educators and scientists in the nation come together and agree on a single base curriculum for every school in the nation so that everyone in 10th grade is learning the same things as everyone else in 10th grade and a kid can leave one school in California and go to a school in Maryland and have the same general thing going on. The problem with the current system is states like Texas and California can hold the entire nation hostage by adopting bizarre school curriculums. Take the current Texas stupidity. Because of their textbook buying power, they can essentially screw up the education of many other states. Luckily, all 14 textbook publishers have told Texas where they can shove their new curriculum, which is a good thing. Now Texas can't get textbooks that reflect their idiotic ideas.
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I understand. You want standardized people, like how Canada required all their Indigenous (Indian) children taken from their parents and put in schools so they could be forced to be taught the history, values, and education that white people think they should be so they can be like white people too. To you, that was the perfect attitude towards education. Outlaw any divergence from government dictated education.

I understand you totally despise individuality - obviously - either for teachers or students, and that everyone in the country ultimately should have 100% the same knowledge, 100% the same lack of knowledge, and everyone think, act and look alike. Certainly, all foreign accents should be eliminated and any usage of foreign language. As you said, a single education so everyone in the country is taught (and not taught) the same thing. That all of allowed human accumulated knowledge the government dictates and prohibits is no more than maybe 3000 pages.

I totally, absolutely disagree with your view that schools should all be 100% identical basically federal child internment camps for national government prescribed education and indoctrination - and ANY teacher who teaches outside the Federal book immediately fired.

Texas has no manner to force any other school district to buy or not buy 1 book. Every state buys so many books they all could negotiate a volume book price if they want too. There are more than 14 publishers in the USA. Texas could get any books it really wants to.
 
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How about this?

American teachers will be paid as much as teachers in China? Chinese students do much better in testing.
 
The folks wanting teachers to be paid vastly more than other people never, ever have ANYTHING to prove what they claim, nothing.
 
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