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Considering the ongoing threats of more contamination, should they be re-opend?

Considering the ongoing threats of more contamination, should they be re-opend?

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
NeoVsMatrix said:
With that bias you should be well off...worst case scenario you get free light by just glowing in the dark yourself like a twilight vampire.
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Well I could always make lamp oil by rendering the fat from all the feral cats in my neighborhood if worst comes to worst.
 
DaveFagan said:
TBO.com | AP Wires

Japan delaying cleanup of towns near nuclear plant
"Radiation cleanup in some of the most contaminated towns around Fukushima's nuclear power plant is behind schedule, so some residents will have to wait a few more years before returning, Japanese officials said Monday. Environment Ministry officials said they are revising the cleanup schedule for six of 11 municipalities in an exclusion zone from which residents were evacuated after three reactors at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant went into meltdown following the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami. The original plan called for completing all decontamination by next March."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_JAPAN_NUCLEAR?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=TEPCO

TEPCO doesn't have enough money to fix this.

The Japanese public will be required to pay for this.

Million and millions of gallons of radiated water stored in fragile tanks.

Possible fission reaction ongoing in melted core/s revealed by cesium and other readings in leaking groundwater.

Damaged fuel storage pool with thousands of fuel rods and susceptible to another earthquake or tidal wave.

Should these towns be re-opened with the Fukushima meltdown still out of control?

Should the exclusion zone be enlarged?

Is the fuel rod threat in the storage pool enough threat to stop re-opening the towns?

Are the melted fuel cores, especially the one that has melted through containment enough threat to stop re-opening the towns?

Japan, a super high tech Nation, has asked for International help and who will be able to help?

Radiation contaminated water in huge quantities seeps into the Pacific daily and does this worry you?

All "Nuke" plants are on major waterways and does this worry you?

Should all "Nuke" plants be made illegal?
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I went with IDK, as I do not know enough about the Fukushima situation.

What I do think is relevant to the question of atomic power plants is the cost in lives and cash
As far as I can tell, the price in lives has been much lower in the nuclear sector than with coal. The cash costs seem to be higher than with solar voltaic, if the new plant in UK is a realistic indication.
 
joG said:
I went with IDK, as I do not know enough about the Fukushima situation.

What I do think is relevant to the question of atomic power plants is the cost in lives and cash
As far as I can tell, the price in lives has been much lower in the nuclear sector than with coal. The cash costs seem to be higher than with solar voltaic, if the new plant in UK is a realistic indication.
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If you go to the link provided, your education will be complete. In truth, it is not information you want to know. It is, however, a synoptic overview of Fukushima.

Fukushima - A Global Threat That Requires a Global Response

"The first thing that is needed is to end the media blackout. The global public needs to be informed about the issues the world faces from Fukushima. The impacts of Fukushima could affect almost everyone on the planet, so we all have a stake in the outcome. If the public is informed about this problem, the political will to resolve it will rapidly develop.

The nuclear industry, which wants to continue to expand, fears Fukushima being widely discussed because it undermines their already weak economic potential. But, the profits of the nuclear industry are of minor concern compared to the risks of the triple Fukushima challenges.

The second thing that must be faced is the incompetence of TEPCO. They are not capable of handling this triple complex crisis. TEPCO "is already Japan’s most distrusted firm" and has been exposed as "dangerously incompetent." A poll found that 91 percent of the Japanese public wants the government to intervene at Fukushima.

Tepco’s management of the stricken power plant has been described as a comedy of errors. The constant stream of mistakes has been made worse by constant false denials and efforts to minimize major problems. Indeed the entire Fukushima catastrophe could have been avoided:

"Tepco at first blamed the accident on ‘an unforeseen massive tsunami’ triggered by the Great East Japan Earthquake on March 11, 2011. Then it admitted it had in fact foreseen just such a scenario but hadn’t done anything about it.""
 
DaveFagan said:
If you go to the link provided, your education will be complete. In truth, it is not information you want to know. It is, however, a synoptic overview of Fukushima.

Fukushima - A Global Threat That Requires a Global Response

"The first thing that is needed is to end the media blackout. The global public needs to be informed about the issues the world faces from Fukushima. The impacts of Fukushima could affect almost everyone on the planet, so we all have a stake in the outcome. If the public is informed about this problem, the political will to resolve it will rapidly develop.

The nuclear industry, which wants to continue to expand, fears Fukushima being widely discussed because it undermines their already weak economic potential. But, the profits of the nuclear industry are of minor concern compared to the risks of the triple Fukushima challenges.

The second thing that must be faced is the incompetence of TEPCO. They are not capable of handling this triple complex crisis. TEPCO "is already Japan’s most distrusted firm" and has been exposed as "dangerously incompetent." A poll found that 91 percent of the Japanese public wants the government to intervene at Fukushima.

Tepco’s management of the stricken power plant has been described as a comedy of errors. The constant stream of mistakes has been made worse by constant false denials and efforts to minimize major problems. Indeed the entire Fukushima catastrophe could have been avoided:

"Tepco at first blamed the accident on ‘an unforeseen massive tsunami’ triggered by the Great East Japan Earthquake on March 11, 2011. Then it admitted it had in fact foreseen just such a scenario but hadn’t done anything about it.""
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Thanks for the link. I'll read it later in the day.
 
I've been reading articles that describe the molten cores as "lost." That means they don't know if they are sitting on the lowest level breached floors or if they are burning into the Earth. There is no good side to this disaster. On the "good or bad" side, they begin unloading the fuel cores in the damaged pool storage this month. I pray that goes well because it is a job fraught with peril as the fuel rods or their support structure may be damaged. They can't be allowed to come in contact with one another or a radiation spewing fire will result. Thousands of fuel rods at Fukushima. The workers they are hiring are homeless and unemployed, not nuclear professionals.
 
Here is a major issue with people believing what they are reading about this. Many of the people "discussing" Fukushima have no fricking clue about radiation or how nuclear reactors work, including terminology.

Example: (This is the first result on the search for Fukushima cores I got)

3 Fukushima reactor cores melted into the earth, and are still missing

This guy has no fricking clue.

"They could go critical (atom-bomb style)." - This is proof he has no idea what he is talking about because "critical" in nuclear power is good. It means the dang thing is on and working. It is not generally bad. (Although it, admittedly, would not be good for Fukushima, but it also wouldn't be likely either.) And it is in no way "atom-bomb style". Heck, I heard "the reactor is critical" so often during my time on the ship that I had to eventually force myself to listen for so I could record the time in my logs when it happened, and it was "hey, we'll have steam soon, good, more work". "Supercritical" is the bad one when it comes to nuclear reactors.

Nuclear reactor physics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
roguenuke said:
Here is a major issue with people believing what they are reading about this. Many of the people "discussing" Fukushima have no fricking clue about radiation or how nuclear reactors work, including terminology.

Example: (This is the first result on the search for Fukushima cores I got)

3 Fukushima reactor cores melted into the earth, and are still missing

This guy has no fricking clue.

"They could go critical (atom-bomb style)." - This is proof he has no idea what he is talking about because "critical" in nuclear power is good. It means the dang thing is on and working. It is not generally bad. (Although it, admittedly, would not be good for Fukushima, but it also wouldn't be likely either.) And it is in no way "atom-bomb style". Heck, I heard "the reactor is critical" so often during my time on the ship that I had to eventually force myself to listen for so I could record the time in my logs when it happened, and it was "hey, we'll have steam soon, good, more work". "Supercritical" is the bad one when it comes to nuclear reactors.

Nuclear reactor physics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The cores at three plants at Fukushima have melted the fuel rods and control apparatus and gone through the metal containment vessels into the supporting basement infrastructure. The molten fuel cores are working on the basement reinforced concrete at this time and specific isotopes being measured offshore indicate that the contamination is reaching underground springs (flowing water) and flowing into the Pacific Ocean big time. That indicates cracks or breaks of some nature in the concrete. Just use your imagination to figure how they will contain these "coriums" at this time. They can't even get equipment into the meltdown buildings to make measurements. TEPCO is constructing water storage tanks as fast as possible, trying to buy more acreage for storage tanks and admitting that eventually they must dump "slightly" decontaminated water into the Pacific. That simplifies to read, "you can't keep building storage tanks for contaminated water forever." This is their best case scenario providing no more quakes or tsunamis.
 
DaveFagan said:
The cores at three plants at Fukushima have melted the fuel rods and control apparatus and gone through the metal containment vessels into the supporting basement infrastructure. The molten fuel cores are working on the basement reinforced concrete at this time and specific isotopes being measured offshore indicate that the contamination is reaching underground springs (flowing water) and flowing into the Pacific Ocean big time. That indicates cracks or breaks of some nature in the concrete. Just use your imagination to figure how they will contain these "coriums" at this time. They can't even get equipment into the meltdown buildings to make measurements. TEPCO is constructing water storage tanks as fast as possible, trying to buy more acreage for storage tanks and admitting that eventually they must dump "slightly" decontaminated water into the Pacific. That simplifies to read, "you can't keep building storage tanks for contaminated water forever." This is their best case scenario providing no more quakes or tsunamis.
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They screwed up. They are not us. Heck, they aren't even doing those same things anymore. It is called "a learning experience", just as we had with TMI and the world had with Chernobyl. A learning experience that really is just a reinforcement of many things that many other nuclear-power using places already foresaw and this just reinforced that these are issues that need to be dealt with. Nuclear power is still a lot safer than many other current major forms of fuel. You are complaining about the safety of something that already showed the problem. It happened. And it in all likelihood will not happen again, particularly in that same way.

Of course nothing you said in any way refutes what I did. None of that stuff has anything to do with whether or not the problem is so big we can't deal with it or it is going to cause devastating problems to the rest of the world. It doesn't in any way refute that many of the people you are believing have any real clue about what is going on, since I showed that many of them are not even capable of using proper terminology in reference to nuclear reactors and their operations.
 
roguenuke said:
They screwed up. They are not us. Heck, they aren't even doing those same things anymore. It is called "a learning experience", just as we had with TMI and the world had with Chernobyl. A learning experience that really is just a reinforcement of many things that many other nuclear-power using places already foresaw and this just reinforced that these are issues that need to be dealt with. Nuclear power is still a lot safer than many other current major forms of fuel. You are complaining about the safety of something that already showed the problem. It happened. And it in all likelihood will not happen again, particularly in that same way.

Of course nothing you said in any way refutes what I did. None of that stuff has anything to do with whether or not the problem is so big we can't deal with it or it is going to cause devastating problems to the rest of the world. It doesn't in any way refute that many of the people you are believing have any real clue about what is going on, since I showed that many of them are not even capable of using proper terminology in reference to nuclear reactors and their operations.
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Here's a link where I find information. Since Shinzo Abe made it illegal to report on Fukushima, news has dried up, but this source is accurate. Humans can not imply that they will be responsible for a waste that lasts thousands of years. Corporations are "fictitious entities" that can and do bankrupt when liabilities exceed assets and nukes will ultimately always lead to that financial condition. POW! Bankrupt and now the waste is your collective (socialized liabilities) responsibility and the executives have disappeared with their "privatized" profits.

Fukushima 2013 « nuclear-news

Radiation increase a thousand fold in Fukushima groundwater
Shock revelations about US sailors exposed to Fukushima radiation
Cancer is clearly increasing in Fukushima children,
 
DaveFagan said:
Here's a link where I find information. Since Shinzo Abe made it illegal to report on Fukushima, news has dried up, but this source is accurate. Humans can not imply that they will be responsible for a waste that lasts thousands of years. Corporations are "fictitious entities" that can and do bankrupt when liabilities exceed assets and nukes will ultimately always lead to that financial condition. POW! Bankrupt and now the waste is your collective (socialized liabilities) responsibility and the executives have disappeared with their "privatized" profits.

Fukushima 2013 « nuclear-news

Radiation increase a thousand fold in Fukushima groundwater
Shock revelations about US sailors exposed to Fukushima radiation
Cancer is clearly increasing in Fukushima children,
Click to expand...

I know enough about radiation to understand what is going on. I also know that those sailors are full of it, in all likelihood. There are radiation detectors all over a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. In fact, we have personal ones that measure how much radiation we are exposed to. We are only allowed so much exposure. Their levels of radiation exposure are clearly documented and many of the "symptoms" I have seen they are claiming aren't even symptoms of radiation sickness. (Heck, technically it wouldn't even be radiation sickness, just exposure.)

Sure there are plenty of problems and people are hurting, dying because of this. But that happens with pretty much any form of power generation. We work to make things better, safer. We don't discard an entire form of power generation simply because we have an accident that is in fact already being safeguarded against happening again by any place that actually cares about such safeguards. In fact, most people already made those considerations before Fukushima.
 
roguenuke said:
I know enough about radiation to understand what is going on. I also know that those sailors are full of it, in all likelihood. There are radiation detectors all over a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. In fact, we have personal ones that measure how much radiation we are exposed to. We are only allowed so much exposure. Their levels of radiation exposure are clearly documented and many of the "symptoms" I have seen they are claiming aren't even symptoms of radiation sickness. (Heck, technically it wouldn't even be radiation sickness, just exposure.)

Sure there are plenty of problems and people are hurting, dying because of this. But that happens with pretty much any form of power generation. We work to make things better, safer. We don't discard an entire form of power generation simply because we have an accident that is in fact already being safeguarded against happening again by any place that actually cares about such safeguards. In fact, most people already made those considerations before Fukushima.
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Please respond to this.

"Humans can not imply that they will be responsible for a waste that lasts thousands of years. Corporations are "fictitious entities" that can and do bankrupt when liabilities exceed assets and nukes will ultimately always lead to that financial condition. POW! Bankrupt and now the waste is your collective (socialized liabilities) responsibility and the executives have disappeared with their "privatized" profits."




]
 
DaveFagan said:
Please respond to this.

"Humans can not imply that they will be responsible for a waste that lasts thousands of years. Corporations are "fictitious entities" that can and do bankrupt when liabilities exceed assets and nukes will ultimately always lead to that financial condition. POW! Bankrupt and now the waste is your collective (socialized liabilities) responsibility and the executives have disappeared with their "privatized" profits."


]
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You mitigate the production of waste. Thorium reactors, from what I have been seeing about them, seem like a pretty good way to do that. Look to be much more efficient and less waste-producing.

But the waste is there and not nearly as horrible as some are making it out to be. Plus, plenty of waste generated by other fuels as well. And radiation is part of life here on Earth. It is all around us. It is in fact a part of our natural life processes. Too much is absolutely bad, but that is pretty much fearmongering if you are trying to use it to keep people from using nuclear power.

Now, sure we need to hold any corporations who run these facilities responsible for cleaning up any messes they make completely, but it is stupid to hold all nuclear power industries/operations responsible for the screw ups of a few.
 
roguenuke said:
You mitigate the production of waste. Thorium reactors, from what I have been seeing about them, seem like a pretty good way to do that. Look to be much more efficient and less waste-producing.

But the waste is there and not nearly as horrible as some are making it out to be. Plus, plenty of waste generated by other fuels as well. And radiation is part of life here on Earth. It is all around us. It is in fact a part of our natural life processes. Too much is absolutely bad, but that is pretty much fearmongering if you are trying to use it to keep people from using nuclear power.

Now, sure we need to hold any corporations who run these facilities responsible for cleaning up any messes they make completely, but it is stupid to hold all nuclear power industries/operations responsible for the screw ups of a few.
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It is immoral and unethical to even suggest that a "Corporation" with a finite life span in a Nation that has only existed for a couple hundred years can be presumed to be responsible for a waste product with many thousands of years of liability. That is the major flaw of "Nuclear." It is real, fatal, and inevitable. I'm not picking on you. I was an AX2 many years past. Aircrewman, etc. Vietnam and most of Asia by air.
 
DaveFagan said:
It is immoral and unethical to even suggest that a "Corporation" with a finite life span in a Nation that has only existed for a couple hundred years can be presumed to be responsible for a waste product with many thousands of years of liability. That is the major flaw of "Nuclear." It is real, fatal, and inevitable. I'm not picking on you. I was an AX2 many years past. Aircrewman, etc. Vietnam and most of Asia by air.
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The toxic byproducts of that computer you're using right now never become safe.
 
Deuce said:
The toxic byproducts of that computer you're using right now never become safe.
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That's true, but they are not reaching/leaching/flowing in such a manner that their inherent toxicity is negligently dangerous for half a million years. I think I would have to eat my computer to cause or suffer ill effects. The particular toxins can be handled "responsibly." Responsibility is the key word.
 
DaveFagan said:
That's true, but they are not reaching/leaching/flowing in such a manner that their inherent toxicity is negligently dangerous for half a million years. I think I would have to eat my computer to cause or suffer ill effects. The particular toxins can be handled "responsibly." Responsibility is the key word.
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Actually, a lot of the things you do and use do that. The extent of "radioactivity" and "contamination" due to nuclear power production is greatly exaggerated in how it works and how long it lasts. People simply do not seem to understand time/distance/shielding or decay rates. Many do not understand that radioactivity and radiation are part of our very world.

I'm all for finding better ways to do business, but those like you want to use fearmongering to prevent that by bringing up Fukushima and using it to prevent all nuclear power generation because this one place did an awful job at being responsible for it while plenty of other companies, organizations, sites, and countries do a very good job of being responsible with nuclear power. Heck, Thorium reactors would be so much better and yet they are prevented from even being tried because people are afraid.
 
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