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Should the USA resume all normal activities with Cuba

Thread: Should the USA resume all normal activities with Cuba

  • No official recognition of Cuba

    Votes: 5 16.1%

  • Yes, resume all activities

    Votes: 26 83.9%
  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
[]D e e v e s said:
given the USA deals with regimes like China and Pakistan etc. Shouldn't Cuba be considered for resumption of all diplomatic/trade/commerce and tourism? Yes or no?
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If we maintain diplomatic/trade relations with China, we should do the same with Cuba.

Also, Pakistan isn't a regime? Corrupt and authoritarian leaning, yes, but I'd expect that from any developing country.
 
[]D e e v e s said:
given the USA deals with regimes like China and Pakistan etc. Shouldn't Cuba be considered for resumption of all diplomatic/trade/commerce and tourism?

Yes or no?
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Your poll doesn't give too many choices, but I believe we should head that way.
 
If Cuba had the pocket books and manufacturing ability that China did we would be all for "trading" with them.
 
It's not about equivalency it's about efficacy. The policy of graduated reduction of restrictive measures seems to be having an impact and should be continued.
 
It hasn't stopped Obama's best buds, Jay Z and Beyonce from doing w/e they wanted in Cuba, why should normal, working people who want to go to cuba be denied or be in danger of being attacked, should they go to Cuba, by cuban people who hate the US because of the way the US treats Cuba.
 
Rainman05 said:
It hasn't stopped Obama's best buds, Jay Z and Beyonce from doing w/e they wanted in Cuba, why should normal, working people who want to go to cuba be denied or be in danger of being attacked, should they go to Cuba, by cuban people who hate the US because of the way the US treats Cuba.
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Cubans don't hate the US.

Source: I've been there.
 
Hatuey said:
Cubans don't hate the US.

Source: I've been there.
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Have you been to all of Cuba and met every cuban?

Personal experience doesnt' count for much really in such cases.
 
Rainman05 said:
Have you been to all of Cuba and met every cuban?
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Nope, just married one, lived amongst them for 6 months, worked for an European company doing market research in Cuba and met with both well off Cubans and poor Cubans. That's more experience with Cubans than any current US politician - and I can without a doubt guarantee that the average Cuban is too busy trying to eat to care about hating the US. Even the average 50 year old (AKA Fidel's Revolution) has a genuine curiosity about what things are like on the other side.

What's your experience with Cubans?
 
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[]D e e v e s said:
given the USA deals with regimes like China and Pakistan etc. Shouldn't Cuba be considered for resumption of all diplomatic/trade/commerce and tourism?

Yes or no?
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yeah, we should have done that twenty years ago.

you defeat oppressive regimes with information and entertainment, not blockades. if every North Korean had a smart phone and full internet access, Kim Jong Un's head would be decorating a stake at the edge of Pyongyang within the fortnight.
 
Hatuey said:
Nope, just married one, lived amongst them for 6 months, worked for an European company doing market research in Cuba and met with both well off Cubans and poor Cubans. That's more experience with Cubans than any current US politician - and I can without a doubt guarantee that the average Cuban is too busy trying to eat to care about hating the US. Even the average 50 year old (AKA Fidel's Revolution) has a genuine curiosity about what things are like on the other side.

What's your experience with Cubans?
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I smoked a cuban cigar once with my college professor after I got my diploma.

Anyway. I don't see how your personal experience on the matter can influence this discussion. As I said, in such cases, personal experiences don't matter. You can't use them as leverage in a discussion because they're unverifiable.

I'm not saying that the majority of cubans hate the americans. I'm just saying that the fact that the US is treating Cuba like a pariah state... is kind of infurating and may cause some cubans a lot of anger. You can see how such a thing can lead to american tourists ending up in a situation they'd rather not find themselves in. It doesn't take a lot of angry cubans, just one.

And as I said before, I voted on the Yes: US should resume relations with Cuba... and not have this charade anymore.
 
Hatuey said:
What's your experience with Cubans?
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Well, about twice a year, I got this guy, he hands me a box of cigars and I enjoy the hell out of them...
 
The reality of it is that there is some untold reason Cuba is the special case it is. I mean we even have semi normal to normal relations with Vietnam for pete's sake.


I say, open up and let us all get along
 
Rainman05 said:
I smoked a cuban cigar once with my college professor after I got my diploma.

Anyway. I don't see how your personal experience on the matter can influence this discussion.
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Then don't ask me what my experiences with Cubans are. I've met more of them in the last 2 years than you will in your entire lifetime. :shrug: What would you like? My last pictures in/of Old Habana? My pictures by/of La Piragua? Maybe some pictures of the rum I bought there? Lol, you ask me whether I knew "every" Cuban, then run away when I present to you the fact I not only have kinship but also have traveled extensively in the country. Gotta say, that's the fastest backdown I've seen in quite some time.

I'm not saying that the majority of cubans hate the americans.
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Seems like you did by asking "Do you know every Cuban?" - Nope. Sure don't. However, I know enough of them, worked with enough of them and even have family relations with enough of them to know the majority in the country do not hate the US. They basically flock here every time the Mariel port is opened. There are nearly a million of them living in the US. They run businesses, they work jobs (as legal residents) - they become everyday American citizens. They do that far better than other immigrant groups have. And yet somehow they hate the US? That's just silly and inconsistent with the reality that I have not only seen but worked with.
 
I visited when I was 18 and had a great time. Really want to take my wife before we are old so I hope they lift the ban.
 
Hatuey said:
Then don't ask me what my experiences with Cubans are. I've met more of them in the last 2 years than you will in your entire lifetime. :shrug: What would you like? My last pictures in/of Old Habana? My pictures by/of La Piragua? Maybe some pictures of the rum I bought there? Lol, you ask me whether I knew "every" Cuban, then run away when I present to you the fact I not only have kinship but also have traveled extensively in the country. Gotta say, that's the fastest backdown I've seen in quite some time.

Seems like you did by asking "Do you know every Cuban?" - Nope. Sure don't. However, I know enough of them, worked with enough of them and even have family relations with enough of them to know the majority in the country do not hate the US. They basically flock here every time the Mariel port is opened. There are nearly a million of them living in the US. They run businesses, they work jobs (as legal residents) - they become everyday American citizens. They do that far better than other immigrant groups have. And yet somehow they hate the US? That's just silly and inconsistent with the reality that I have not only seen but worked with.
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You opened the door to inquiry on your personal experiences, not me. You opened the door, I stepped through it to tell you that said experiences are irrelevant.

And I asked you "do you know every cuban" to express to you that your personal, limited experiences are irrelevant.

As for the only addage you made to your comment regarding the million cuban immigrants.

Mexicans also went in the USA and some are just like the cubans... some integrated more than others, some are more successful than others. And yet, you still get La Raza and such crap.

Again, where do you take issue? I feel like you are engaging me in a conversation topic you possibly can't win and are going round-round nitpicking. I'm not against the ban being lifted, I am for-the-ban-being-lifted as it causes uneccesary tension. Your nitpicks will end up with you lying flat on your ass.
 
Rainman05 said:
It hasn't stopped Obama's best buds, Jay Z and Beyonce from doing w/e they wanted in Cuba, why should normal, working people who want to go to cuba be denied or be in danger of being attacked, should they go to Cuba, by cuban people who hate the US because of the way the US treats Cuba.
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Very few citizens from anti-US countries actually truly hate Americans. There's a couple of exceptions like Turkey or Pakistan, but it's more of the crazies in their governments that hate the US/Americans. I mean it's just like how you don't hold anything against the Russian, Iranian or Cuban who's in the grocery store. You dislike their governments, yes, but you're not going to walk up to this person and start hurling insults at them.

Also - Cuba has a fairly warm relationship with the rest of the world. My English and Australian friends have vacationed there, no problem.
 
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[]D e e v e s said:
Canadians find Cuba one of their first choices as tourists. I think America's position is rather foolish considering who they have and still do, do business.
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Perhaps we should stay away. Americans would just want a new Disney Theme Park there.:lamo
 
Rainman05 said:
You opened the door to inquiry on your personal experiences, not me. You opened the door, I stepped through it to tell you that said experiences are irrelevant.

And I asked you "do you know every cuban" to express to you that your personal, limited experiences are irrelevant.

As for the only addage you made to your comment regarding the million cuban immigrants.

Mexicans also went in the USA and some are just like the cubans... some integrated more than others, some are more successful than others. And yet, you still get La Raza and such crap.

Again, where do you take issue? I feel like you are engaging me in a conversation topic you possibly can't win and are going round-round nitpicking. I'm not against the ban being lifted, I am for-the-ban-being-lifted as it causes uneccesary tension. Your nitpicks will end up with you lying flat on your ass.
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Are you kidding me?

La Raza is an radical American group of Latinos that do nothing but make trouble.

Why would you think that the average Mexican thinks like they do?

Again, just like in Cuba, the people of Mexico work hard every day to survive and generally don't have the time or the will to hate the US. As a matter of fact a lot of think the streets are covered in gold and all they have to do is cross the border to get some of that.

You should do some research before bringing up something you know nothing about.
 
brothern said:
If we maintain diplomatic/trade relations with China, we should do the same with Cuba.
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This is not just about "how nasty their government is" - the extant Cuban regime is directly responsible for deaths of American citizens and illegal confiscation of American property.

Having said that: While they are not a free country, we are supposed to be. As such, we should not impose restrictions on visits or trade between our private citizens and any foreign entity we are not officially at war with.

No diplomatic relationships, though. Castro and Co. are thugs.
 
Absolutely. It makes little or no sense to keep it in place, its outdated, and didnt do what it was intended to do.
 
Cyrylek said:
This is not just about "how nasty their government is" - the extant Cuban regime is directly responsible for deaths of American citizens and illegal confiscation of American property.
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Given the extent of American involvement in global conflicts, I'd say there's at least two dozen such countries for which you could claim the same.

Yet if I had the money I could get a direct flight to Moscow or Hanoi and point out the damn American embassy buildings.

Cyrylek said:
Having said that: While they are not a free country, we are supposed to be. As such, we should not impose restrictions on visits or trade between our private citizens and any foreign entity we are not officially at war with. No diplomatic relationships, though. Castro and Co. are thugs.
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I'm happy that we can agree that trade/travel restrictions are a terrible idea. Like stated elsewhere in this thread, I also believe that isolation does too much to foster anti-American and anti-Western values. Distrust and outright antipathy spreads far easier against a phantom, faceless enemy than it does against an engaged country actively demonstrating its principles. It's why our American values, culture and even our entertainment is seen as a threat by many repressive governments.

Let's also not pretend that we only hold diplomatic relationships with non-thuggish governments.
 
brothern said:
Let's also not pretend that we only hold diplomatic relationships with non-thuggish governments.
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I know, the world is not all made of norways and new zealands. But if we do not hold diplomatic relationships with this particular bunch of thugs right now - let's keep it as it is. Let them file a discrimination suit. :)
 
iacardsfan said:
If Cuba had the pocket books and manufacturing ability that China did we would be all for "trading" with them.
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As they do not, we should not. Until they change their own tune or we think we can undermine them through trade, we can keep up our pretenses about human rights abuses.
 
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