What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

Serenity said:

I've seen someone get put on his ass for accusing someone of parking in a disabled zone when they felt he wasn't eligible. The guy doing the accusing was an idiot, carrying on like a maniac and he picked the wrong person. I bet he finds a new "hobby" now.

(This happened outside of the hospital not far from where ambulances sometimes have to queue for patient transfers. - The guy parked in the disabled zone was waiting for his wife who was wheelchair bound and in having her chemo session whietch he told me usually lasted for 2 hours. He'd just got back to pick her up and he had every right to be there.)

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I have resisted the urge to drop kick the folks mouthing off or giving me bad looks. It is funny. I do the right thing for the right reasons and I get judged in such a way. My crime is helping my mobility impaired oxygen ridden elderly mother to the store. When I come out with groceries first and load up the car is when I get the remarks or bad looks. I think someone even snapped a picture or took a video of me with their phone once. The one time someone that mouthed off waited for me to come out with my mom, she didn't even have the integrity to apologize.

Sometimes what I do is stop in a loading zone if a store employee is present and they help her with a motorized scooter. Then I go get the handicapped spot. This gives me two chances at being harassed. Someone actually said - if you can do that, why take a handicapped spot, are you lazy? I say that when my mom comes out in a scooter, she needs the extra space to negotiate the scooter.

Again, tell me, why do I do I have to justify myself when I am doing the right things for the right reasons in a legal way.

I swear, if that video ever showed up on a "people behaving badly" website, I would create my own website "Assholes without integrity enough to find out the whole story" and let them eat their words/videos.

Rocketman said:

I met another "disabled person" this morning that was loading up for a week trip to go horseback riding in Missouri. How disabled could that person really be, horses are alot of trouble and require high amounts of physical labor for care.

It is becoming sickening seeing these types basically on early retirement while the rest of us work.

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There are all types of disabilities, yours seems to be a complete lack of knowledge in what you are talking about.

That guy getting ready for a ride may very well be stage 4 cancer, how the **** would you know otherwise? Or next week the same guy may very well be qualified by your personal opinion on disabilities but he will be at home or in a hospital.

Go to this site watch these videos because they make you look like a whinny bigot.
Invisible Disabilities Association - IDA - Encourage | Educate | Connect | Invisible No More

One of the many jobs I had while going to school included a stint at a states Vocational Rehabilitation office.
For those unaware their purpose is to help individuals with disabilities get the skill sets they need in order to find employment. I worked more as an internal consultant but I learned a lot from the job. Including that disabilities that can make employment difficult to near impossible come in a lot of different forms.

You could have a person in great physical shape that suffers from seizures constantly which pretty much makes it impossible for him to hold employment...or he's stuck at a dead end job because employers don't want to deal with all the potential ways his seizures can cause them problems. So the person still needs health coverage...maybe they are working at some part time job for extra money but actually holding down a full time job and advancing is nearly impossible.

How about someone with chronic depression or schizophrenia? Disability may be what they need in order to get their medication. If they aren't on their medication they can't hold down a job. Most employers are wary about hiring individuals with mental health disabilities.

So.....I guess my point is....disabilities that make holding down a job range from the classic example of someone bedridden to disabilities that when you meet a person face to face you could never recognize. Let's stop with the practice of judging people when you're ignorant of their condition. I'm all for checks in the disability system to prevent fraud. It stops people that really need it from getting it. That also means it's not your role to criticize or act belligerent towards individuals where you are ignorant of their condition.

TurtleDude said:

I set forth the legal definition under the two federal laws

an impairment that causes a substantial limitation on a major life function

of course some jobs can be done with such limitations. a software designer can work from a wheelchair

a police officer or firefighter-not so much. You can still be considered disabled under federal law even if your disability has no impact on your job

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The problem is the person she was responding to in this post put forward a completely different definition.

An impairment that causes a substantial limitaiton on a major life function is SIGNIFICANTLY different than "if you can perform ANY job, you can't qualify for disability"

My mother is one of those disabled folks that likely most would ignorantly see and just assume isn't. She has a condition in her foot known as RSD or CRPS depending on what term you want to use. Basically, the nerves in and around her foot are constantly firing in a hyper sensitive pain reading manner. To give a reference, the McGill pain scale for Chronic pain arthritis is about an 18, chronic back pain at about 29, an amputation of a digit coming in around 40, and RSD checks in around 48 as the highest on the scale.

The pain is always present, but the severity comes and goes. During good times she can function somewhat normally, in large part because she's always had a good pain tolerance. During the bad times, she's got no recourse other than to put her head in a pillow and scream and cry until she can pass out.

She can't wear socks or tight fitting shoes because it creates significant pain all along the foot if she has a flare up. Even when seemingly acting "normal", her memory and ability to concentrate is significantly impaired because she rarely is able to actually partake in any kind of actual, restful, rejuvinative sleep. Attacks are random, though there are various things that can help induce (such as stress), and can be utterly dabilitating when they happen.

She does not "look" like a disabled person. She continues to make herself get up and go around and try and live a normal life because it's about the only thing that held her remains sane. Many with the disease don't, they stay hole up in their home causing atrophy to set into the limbs and many typically end in suicide. Trying to be as "normal" as possible keeps her moving, keeps her sane, and keeps her fighting against this. Yet to ignorant assholes leveraging "well I pay taxes and it goes into the system so I can speak my mind to any person I want that I think is faking it", I'm sure at times she may not "look" like she's "disabled".

What employer wants someone whose regularly medicated? Who is completely unable to be counted on as they could be stricten unable to reasonable function at any given time, for any given length of time? Who can not wear professional dress? Whose mind is reasonably cloudy and apt to miss details? What employer for what kind of job would actively seek to take on such a liability? Please, if you know it then it'd be wonderful to hear and I'll forward the information onto her. I can not speak for all disabled people, I can speak for my mother however...there's no doubt that if she COULD reasonably work a job she would. From the moment me and my Sister was out of the house she was working because it provided her with some actual new purpose and enjoyment in life. It provided additional income to allow her some of the freedom for things she enjoyed in life. Being placed on disability doesn't do any of those; the primary benefit of it for her was the fact that she'll no longer need to be paying significant money per month for COBRA (she previously had insurance through her job, which she was no longer able to work and had to part ways with).

Not everyone whose disabled has their legs amputated and are in a wheel chair. Is there fraud? Absolutely. Without question there is. But telling people off and giving them a piece of your mind and harassing them because someone THINKS they are being fraudulent doesn't do anything to "fix" the system...but it does likely lead to many people who are legitimately handicapped having to suffer from harassment and vitriol by ignorant bafoons who don't have 1/10th of the proper knowledge, expertise, or standing to question their condition.

Rocketman said:

I met another "disabled person" this morning that was loading up for a week trip to go horseback riding in Missouri. How disabled could that person really be, horses are alot of trouble and require high amounts of physical labor for care.

It is becoming sickening seeing these types basically on early retirement while the rest of us work.

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Actually while I agree with your sentiment, horse riding is used as a therapeutic approach for many disabilities. Our neighbors actually are a retired couple that provide this service for mentally and physically disabled kids.

APACHERAT said:

I never said the person was committing fraud, I'm saying the entire system is a fraud.

I could go down to the VA tomorrow and file a combat PTSD claim and I don't have to prove it and the VA can't prove I don't have it. And there are thousands of vets who have done it because it's FREE STUFF.

I know more than a few who have done it and they asked why don't I do it ? It's free money.

How many Americans have filed disability claims since Obama has become POTUS ?

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You don't seem to understand a lot about how VA works. You only get "free stuff", including money in connection to what you are qualified for. You do have to prove PTSD, or at least provide proof that you did something/experienced something that was likely to result in PTSD plus show signs of it.

Forensic Validity of a PTSD Diagnosis - NATIONAL CENTER for PTSD

It's possible that my husband had PTSD right after Iraq (considering how he acted for a year or two after), but then again it could have been simply a hard time readjusting. I'm not a doctor. But it also depends on what functioning level you are at.

I qualify for certain VA claims due to my job, including claims based on hearing loss (engine rooms are loud, even with hearing protection) and exposure to ionizing radiation (which ups my chance of cancer by about .04% over the base chance everyone faces). Then there was my broken nose (due to faulty equipment). Have I done it? No. But that doesn't mean I might not do it if I end up with problems associated with any of these things.

But if we went ahead and put in place a UHC, it would reduce the need for people making false claims, especially for things not needed.

But how many people have went into a battlezone or left the military since Obama became POTUS? How many left just before and simply put off applying for it til now? Plus, what is the big deal about veterans getting the care they need? It only goes toward their service connected disability.

opendebate said:

awesome

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Where would the "king" take the money from? Is creating the inevitable cry for ever more benefits really the wisdom of a king?

Fiddytree said:

No, it's not just examples. It's meant to make a point. Here's what happens. By all accounts we have maybe, what, knowledge of 1% that are taking advantage of the system unfairly. Now, burrowed underneath is centuries of resentment and disgust of the disabled burrowing up, and we get neighbors or random people calling up to say so and so is a fraud. Then on the systematic level, based off of little else than speculation, we blow up the concern by stating that even though we do not have evidence that it is a massive (enough to cause regular beneficiaries to worry about their damn neighbors looking at them funny) problem, that doesn't mean there isn't a massive problem down deep. I'm sorry, but it's just another connected issue that many of us have dealt with for years. Uneducated, unqualified yahoos thinking they know what we get and what we ought to get, even though there is no way on God's green earth they would for a second tolerate the same kind of rude behavior or audaciousness. There's many of us who have been approached, out of nowhere, by someone, anyone, that we are frauds or somehow we are being unfair to you folks. It's ridiculous behavior.

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Dr. Tom Coburn's Senate investigation found 25% fraudulent cases out of 300 studied. If that's anywhere near a representative sample I'd say the 1% number is a bit low.
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public...ecord_id=ebca7c81-e7ea-4650-99e4-86e7890232f1

ChrisL said:

Well gee, I think it's a given that a paralyzed person can't work. :roll: I think he's trying to say, people you see out in their yards, doing yard work, working on their vehicles, all kinds of other things.

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Just because they do things, or you see them doing things, doesn't mean they aren't disabled. Maybe they have severe arthritis that is mostly controlled with medications, but it can flair up and make it so that every few days they can't get out of bed. Very few jobs are going to be okay with an employee who is calling in at least once a week because they simply can't move.

Sure there are some people who cheat the system, but just because you see someone who is doing something you don't think they should be doing because they qualify for disability doesn't mean they aren't disabled.

Matt E said:

The problem is that poor people cannot get jobs where they sit down. Everything's fine for people like me (I'm a software developer), but if you're poor, you have to stand up. There is not a single job where you don't have to, and that will kill anyone's back if done for 8 hours per day, every day, without even considering wheelchairs. Workers at walmart need to be given stools, and getting a proper education needs to be cheaper. College tuition has skyrocketed, and we're talking about state-owned schools, which are taking their huge endowments and paying it to their professor ameritouses (as opposed to the regular old professors) and charging students for the rest.

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You must break away from your computer screen and look around a little more. There are plenty of sit down jobs for poor. Receptionist comes to mind. I used to work at a plant many years ago that made rubber car and appliance parts. The entire inspection department sat to work. Low skill, low physical requirement job.

What specifically should "disability" mean when it comes to qualifying for SSDI? That is the important question.

If disability claims spike during a recession, if there are unusually higher percentages of people on SSDI in economically depressed communities, and so forth, that is a bad sign, because it probably means people are turning to SSDI because they can't secure a job. That is not what disability is. If it was, then a lot of 22-year old college graduates would be "disabled."

Neomalthusian said:

What specifically should "disability" mean when it comes to qualifying for SSDI? That is the important question.

If disability claims spike during a recession, if there are unusually higher percentages of people on SSDI in economically depressed communities, and so forth, that is a bad sign, because it probably means people are turning to SSDI because they can't secure a job. That is not what disability is. If it was, then a lot of 22-year old college graduates would be "disabled."

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Disability Planner: What We Mean By Disability


The definition of disability under Social Security is different than other programs. Social Security pays only for total disability. No benefits are payable for partial disability or for short-term disability.

"Disability" under Social Security is based on your inability to work. We consider you disabled under Social Security rules if:

You cannot do work that you did before;
We decide that you cannot adjust to other work because of your medical condition(s); and
Your disability has lasted or is expected to last for at least one year or to result in death.
This is a strict definition of disability. Social Security program rules assume that working families have access to other resources to provide support during periods of short-term disabilities, including workers' compensation, insurance, savings and investments.

Listing of Impairments - Adult Listings (Part A)


1.00
Musculoskeletal System
2.00
Special Senses and Speech
3.00
Respiratory System

4.00
Cardiovascular System
5.00
Digestive System
6.00
Genitourinary Impairments

7.00
Hematological Disorders

8.00
Skin Disorders


9.00
Endocrine Disorders


10.00
Congenital Disorders that Affect Multiple Body Systems
11.00
Neurological

12.00
Mental Disorders

13.00
Malignant Neoplastic Diseases

14.00
Immune System Disorders

Rocketman said:

Working people that see these people taking advantage of the system care. The statute reads and I quote "IF you are physically able to perform ANY job you aren't qualified for disability"

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What statute? Put it out here so that we might all have your wisdom.

You are saying then that blind people are not disabled? How about someone with Menieré's Disease? Is someone with multiple chemical sensitivity disease disabled? Talk to us about people who have cancer or progressive diseases and tell us which ones should and which ones should not include public accommodations. Explain to us how all disabilities are constant in their limitations and never vary. Tell us how if a person with a disability is going to have a bad day, they know it before they go to the store. Explain to me how the world is just as accessible for people with disabilities and why we have soooo many people in positions of power and authority who are disabled?

Disability has become so rife with corruption that I don't even think there is any point in keeping it at all. People who hurt themselves at work because of an employer's negligence should sue for damages and compensation. That's it. End it entirely.

After decades of abuse, the authorities have finally starting going after Long Island Railroad employees who fraudulently claim disability and it's been sickening. I always thought it was an exaggeration when railroad employees said nearly everyone goes out on disability but then Newsday published a chart of retirees and retirees claiming disability and it turns out nearly everyone goes out on disability. On a given year 150+ employees who retire, 140+ of them go out on disability, and nearly all of them see one of two or three doctors.

Neomalthusian said:

What specifically should "disability" mean when it comes to qualifying for SSDI? That is the important question.

If disability claims spike during a recession, if there are unusually higher percentages of people on SSDI in economically depressed communities, and so forth, that is a bad sign, because it probably means people are turning to SSDI because they can't secure a job. That is not what disability is. If it was, then a lot of 22-year old college graduates would be "disabled."

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It means that people with disabilities are often underemployed and un-employed and that when times are tight it is worse for people with disabilities. They are often the first to be sacked. They are certainly among the last to be hired.

Dapper Andy said:

Disability has become so rife with corruption that I don't even think there is any point in keeping it at all. People who hurt themselves at work because of an employer's negligence should sue for damages and compensation. That's it. End it entirely.

After decades of abuse, the authorities have finally starting going after Long Island Railroad employees who fraudulently claim disability and it's been sickening. I always thought it was an exaggeration when railroad employees said nearly everyone goes out on disability but then Newsday published a chart of retirees and retirees claiming disability and it turns out nearly everyone goes out on disability. On a given year 150+ employees who retire, 140+ of them go out on disability, and nearly all of them see one of two or three doctors.

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Prove it, give us the comparable data from reliable sources. You have obviously reached your position from reading reliable research or you don't really know what the **** you are talking about. Show us.

Risky Thicket said:

How about someone with Menieré's Disease?

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You're the first person I've ever seen that randomly knows of and mentions this disease. 99 out of 100 times I have people look at me like I'm speaking greek when I say it.

johndylan1 said:

Dr. Tom Coburn's Senate investigation found 25% fraudulent cases out of 300 studied. If that's anywhere near a representative sample I'd say the 1% number is a bit low.
Dr. Coburn Releases Report on Social Security Disability Fraud - Right Now - Tom Coburn, M.D., United States Senator from Oklahoma

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http://www.c-c-d.org/fichiers/CCD-Just_the_Facts_on_SS_Disability-Programs-Final-10-2-13-(2).pdf

http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/589681.pdf#page=9

U.S. GAO - Disability Insurance: Work Activity Indicates Certain Social Security Disability Insurance Payments Were Potentially Improper

Statement of Carolyn W. Colvin, Social Security Administration before the House Committee on Ways and Means

Risky Thicket said:

Prove it, give us the comparable data from reliable sources. You have obviously reached your position from reading reliable research or you don't really know what the **** you are talking about. Show us.

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Obviously I don't think for a second you're going to read anything I post but the paper has a whole section online dedicated to coverage of the ongoing LIRR pension fraud issue that you can peruse. You may need to be a subscriber though.

roguenuke said:

You don't seem to understand a lot about how VA works. You only get "free stuff", including money in connection to what you are qualified for. You do have to prove PTSD, or at least provide proof that you did something/experienced something that was likely to result in PTSD plus show signs of it.

Forensic Validity of a PTSD Diagnosis - NATIONAL CENTER for PTSD

It's possible that my husband had PTSD right after Iraq (considering how he acted for a year or two after), but then again it could have been simply a hard time readjusting. I'm not a doctor. But it also depends on what functioning level you are at.

I qualify for certain VA claims due to my job, including claims based on hearing loss (engine rooms are loud, even with hearing protection) and exposure to ionizing radiation (which ups my chance of cancer by about .04% over the base chance everyone faces). Then there was my broken nose (due to faulty equipment). Have I done it? No. But that doesn't mean I might not do it if I end up with problems associated with any of these things.

But if we went ahead and put in place a UHC, it would reduce the need for people making false claims, especially for things not needed.

But how many people have went into a battlezone or left the military since Obama became POTUS? How many left just before and simply put off applying for it til now? Plus, what is the big deal about veterans getting the care they need? It only goes toward their service connected disability.

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A thread on combat PTSD would be a good thread considering how many vets there are on the PD from the Vietnam War to Afghanistan. I have my own theories that many who been there and done that and who are in the military or VA medical fields concur with.

Look at the Marines, sailors and soldiers who fought in the Pacific theater during WW ll, nothing comparable to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan and why so little combat PTSD ? Or why Marines who served in Vietnam have less PTSD claims than soldiers. And what's with POG's who served in Iraq or Afghanistan filing combat PTSD claims ?

I came across an article recently from an interview of the Army's Chief of Staff and the Commandant of the Marine Corps during the early 70's. It was about the first social engineering/dumbing down of Army basic training. Eliminating a few things like midnight inspections and a couple of more. Then they turned to the Commandant and asked if the Marine Corps going to follow suit and dumb down Marine Corps recruit training and he said no. Then he went in to why. Pretty interesting, I need to dig it up and start a new thread.

Risky Thicket said:

It means that people with disabilities are often underemployed and un-employed and that when times are tight it is worse for people with disabilities.

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That doesn't make sense. Disability should not be in any way tied to economic and job market factors. People don't suddenly become disabled when the economy tanks. They exploit the disability program when the economy tanks. Big difference.

Zyphlin said:

You're the first person I've ever seen that randomly knows of and mentions this disease. 99 out of 100 times I have people look at me like I'm speaking greek when I say it.

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Someone with Meniere's does not fit the "disabled' mold for the uniformed. Almost everyone here critical of disability accommodation holds the opinion that a person must have an obvious physical condition to be disabled. Of course they are terribly misinformed but it seems Americans need to see the physical manifestation of a disability before they can feel any empathy. And if they can see the physical manifestation they immediately understand and know all of the functional limitations. :roll:

A person with Meniere's looks "normal". No sympathy for you! Meniere's is characterized by a triad of symptoms: progressive and fluctuating hearing loss, tinitus and bouts of vertigo that can range from mild to violent. "Yeah, but you heard me fine 20 minutes ago." "Why are you laying on the floor in your office? Are you sure you aren't joking? You were talking and laughing at lunch."

According to Dapper Andy you aren't disabled and would should therefore with the appropriate education be qualified to be a surgeon, a steel worker, an electrician or a sonar operator.

opendebate said:

That analogy does not work. You can not compare some getting a few bucks a month from disability when they shouldn't to people getting forced into prostitution. You are equating some getting money without working (a clear win for them) to some being enslaved in prostitution (a clear loss for them). Or we could say, yes, my argument still holds. You do not keep everyone from coming to the country so that some don't end up being forced into prostitution, you crack down on the people who put them there...you improve the oversight

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Which was the main point of this thread and if you took the time to read the poll and votes you would have seen that instead of all that nonsense

Neomalthusian said:

That doesn't make sense. Disability should not be in any way tied to economic and job market factors. People don't suddenly become disabled when the economy tanks. They exploit the disability program when the economy tanks. Big difference.

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People with disabilities suddenly become forcibly unemployed when the economy tanks. In addition there are other factors that haven't been mentioned. The largest single age demographic in America is Boomers. Boomers began to cross the threshold of age related disability at almost the exact same time as the economic downturn. Boomers are a huge demographic and good or bad they have impacted and influenced every stage of life they have encountered largely because there are so many Boomers. Boomers were making the relatively larger salaries and had the larger pensions and had more disabilities than younger workers. They lost their jobs. Factor all that in. There is your big difference.

I'm not saying that disability fraud doesn't exist, but I am saying it is much, much more complex than you may realize.

FreedomFromAll said:

There are all types of disabilities, yours seems to be a complete lack of knowledge in what you are talking about.

That guy getting ready for a ride may very well be stage 4 cancer, how the **** would you know otherwise? Or next week the same guy may very well be qualified by your personal opinion on disabilities but he will be at home or in a hospital.

Go to this site watch these videos because they make you look like a whinny bigot.
Invisible Disabilities Association - IDA - Encourage | Educate | Connect | Invisible No More

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All aboard, another extremist, hell no he does not have cancer, he has more hair than the duck dynasty cast combined, jesus ****ing christ