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What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

What does disability mean and who should get it?

  • It means unmanagable pain and those people should get it

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • It means one might get a chance to retire early and play

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • It is another way to fleece taxpayers and no one should get it

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • who cares, it is unmanagable

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • who cares, it is insignificant expenditure for the US

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • It should be completely overhauled, re-written, and inspected for cheaters

    Votes: 23 85.2%
  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Muhammed said:
Ooops indeed. :liar

APACHERAT also might explain why he supposes this guy with the ADA card would choose to load his truck with all of those nonexistent 100 pound bags of concrete in a handicapped parking spot rather than in the loading zone, which is much closer to the exit door than the parking spots at any Home Depot.

Lesson: If you are going to totally fabricate an anecdotal story about some "guy" you say you saw this morning to back your arguments on an internet forum, be as vague as possible. :mrgreen:
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Do you live in a basement ?
 
Rocketman said:
SO if that same person can work all day around the yard or in field is that different in your opinion? It is not difficult to grasp.
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You are assuming they would even do that, every day, 8 hours a day. Your assumption abound in this thread. You don't know what a person's disability is without examining their private medical files or the granted disability claim. Though one can putter in a yard or field does not mean they are capable of performing and attending a full time job.

I've already conceded. There are frauds, but not everyone on disability is a fraud nor confined to their home 24/7. Is that what you are after? Confinement?
 
Muhammed said:
Ooops indeed. :liar

APACHERAT also might explain why he supposes this guy with the ADA card would choose to load his truck with all of those nonexistent 100 pound bags of concrete in a handicapped parking spot rather than in the loading zone, which is much closer to the exit door than the parking spots at any Home Depot.

Lesson: If you are going to totally fabricate an anecdotal story about some "guy" you say you saw this morning to back your arguments on an internet forum, be as vague as possible. :mrgreen:
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Too true.

Hell, in the OP, we have someone that states the disabled person cannot possibly be disabled because he goes on a trip on horseback, then when questioned about his assumptions, all of a sudden he has been having meals with this guy for three years....and knows he cannot possibly have cancer...but didn't know him enough to know why he was disabled or what his disability is or what kind of work he did. That story is just like an onion, as you peel through the layers, it just gets more pungent. But I am sure we are about ready to hear more layers.:lamo

The funny thing is that I agree with the premise that there are likely a lot of malingers on SSDI. I just don't think you can without a shadow of a doubt spot judge their situation.
 
Gina said:
You are assuming they would even do that, every day, 8 hours a day. Your assumption abound in this thread. You don't know what a person's disability is without examining their private medical files or the granted disability claim. Though one can putter in a yard or field does not mean they are capable of performing and attending a full time job.

I've already conceded. There are frauds, but not everyone on disability is a fraud nor confined to their home 24/7. Is that what you are after? Confinement?
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Please show me where I said everyone on disability is a fraud. I cited one case and you have thrown everyone under the the same scope which is dishonest.
 
year2late said:
I will say that case doesn't seem pass the sniff test.



I will say you have to watch your judgment with the placards. I have been mouthed off at several times (plus countless awful looks). I will park in a handicapped spot, help my into the store with her oxygen and get her set up on a motorized scooter. I finish up my shopping so I can hurry back into the store and help my mom back to the car. That is when I get mouthed off at. One gal actually waited at my parking spot to make sure I came out with my aged mobility impaired supplemental oxygen using mother. At least she could apologize.:lamo



I agree, but on some level we have to acknowledge that there are many more people on disability than need to be - gaming the system.

But I do suppose the person in the OP could have been in the terminal stages of cancer doing his bucket list.
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Here is what I always think when people bring up these examples. No good deed goes unpunished. There is a system in place for people who need it because people need it. We must assume that some will take advantage of it. The thing is, you don't stop caring for those who need it because some undeserving are sneaking along for the ride. I mean, while I wish it was not the case it is the reality of every well intended act (or program in this case) that some will take advantage. But until someone can prove that more take advantage then deserve it, why will not abandon the deserving majority.
 
ChrisL said:
I'm just surprised that more people, ESPECIALLY those who are legitimately disabled, are not sickened by the fraudsters.
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We are, but what you don't understand is that most of us have been attacked by people saying the things people are saying in this thread. Almost all of us have been accused of faking or exaggerating our conditions to get undeserved benefits. There's merit to the argument that frauds prevent people like us from getting the benefits we need and deserve-- but so do the people who deny that anything short of being confined to a bed or a wheelchair is a disability.
 
Gina said:
You are assuming they would even do that, every day, 8 hours a day. Your assumption abound in this thread. You don't know what a person's disability is without examining their private medical files or the granted disability claim. Though one can putter in a yard or field does not mean they are capable of performing and attending a full time job.

I've already conceded. There are frauds, but not everyone on disability is a fraud nor confined to their home 24/7. Is that what you are after? Confinement?
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I set forth the legal definition under the two federal laws

an impairment that causes a substantial limitation on a major life function

of course some jobs can be done with such limitations. a software designer can work from a wheelchair

a police officer or firefighter-not so much. You can still be considered disabled under federal law even if your disability has no impact on your job
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
We are, but what you don't understand is that most of us have been attacked by people saying the things people are saying in this thread. Almost all of us have been accused of faking or exaggerating our conditions to get undeserved benefits. There's merit to the argument that frauds prevent people like us from getting the benefits we need and deserve-- but so do the people who deny that anything short of being confined to a bed or a wheelchair is a disability.
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People have been picking on YOU personally? Because I was under the impression that the thread was about fraudsters. The point is, we cannot afford to give disability to people for every ailment they might suffer. If they CAN work, even part-time, then they should not be collecting disability payments. There are sit-down jobs, standing jobs, jobs with a combination of the two.
 
opendebate said:
Here is what I always think when people bring up these examples. No good deed goes unpunished. There is a system in place for people who need it because people need it. We must assume that some will take advantage of it. The thing is, you don't stop caring for those who need it because some undeserving are sneaking along for the ride. I mean, while I wish it was not the case it is the reality of every well intended act (or program in this case) that some will take advantage. But until someone can prove that more take advantage then deserve it, why will not abandon the deserving majority.
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So let's put that thinking to another type of fraud that takes place in this country but not by the government, our doctors, or some attorneys.

Many foreign women and men get the opportunity to come to this country for a better life. In some cases they are offered internships to repay the debt for helping them come here and it is all legit.

In other cases young women and men are forced into prostitution becoming victims themselves. Should we overlook this practice because many of the people that come are legit?
 
The problem is that poor people cannot get jobs where they sit down. Everything's fine for people like me (I'm a software developer), but if you're poor, you have to stand up. There is not a single job where you don't have to, and that will kill anyone's back if done for 8 hours per day, every day, without even considering wheelchairs. Workers at walmart need to be given stools, and getting a proper education needs to be cheaper. College tuition has skyrocketed, and we're talking about state-owned schools, which are taking their huge endowments and paying it to their professor ameritouses (as opposed to the regular old professors) and charging students for the rest.
 
Matt E said:
The problem is that poor people cannot get jobs where they sit down. Everything's fine for people like me (I'm a software developer), but if you're poor, you have to stand up. There is not a single job where you don't have to, and that will kill anyone's back if done for 8 hours per day, every day, without even considering wheelchairs. Workers at walmart need to be given stools, and getting a proper education needs to be cheaper. College tuition has skyrocketed, and we're talking about state-owned schools, which are taking their huge endowments and paying it to their professor ameritouses (as opposed to the regular old professors) and charging students for the rest.
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There are plenty of jobs that people can get sitting down. :roll: Factory workers for one.
 
ChrisL said:
There are plenty of jobs that people can get sitting down. :roll: Factory workers for one.
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yep, we have several here where the workers sit all day
 
If I were king, I would eliminate disability. In its place, I would give similar benefits to anyone who wanted them. No disability required. Disability lawyers out of business overnight. No more stories of legitimate disabled people being denied for years. No fraud, because fraud isn't possible when there's no requirements to be met. Anyone who wanted to live on more than the low level of subsistence we provide the disabled would still have reason to acquire a job.
 
Rocketman said:
So let's put that thinking to another type of fraud that takes place in this country but not by the government, our doctors, or some attorneys.

Many foreign women and men get the opportunity to come to this country for a better life. In some cases they are offered internships to repay the debt for helping them come here and it is all legit.

In other cases young women and men are forced into prostitution becoming victims themselves. Should we overlook this practice because many of the people that come are legit?
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That analogy does not work. You can not compare some getting a few bucks a month from disability when they shouldn't to people getting forced into prostitution. You are equating some getting money without working (a clear win for them) to some being enslaved in prostitution (a clear loss for them). Or we could say, yes, my argument still holds. You do not keep everyone from coming to the country so that some don't end up being forced into prostitution, you crack down on the people who put them there...you improve the oversight
 
vvx said:
If I were king, I would eliminate disability. In its place, I would give similar benefits to anyone who wanted them. No disability required. Disability lawyers out of business overnight. No more stories of legitimate disabled people being denied for years. No fraud, because fraud isn't possible when there's no requirements to be met. Anyone who wanted to live on more than the low level of subsistence we provide the disabled would still have reason to acquire a job.
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awesome
 
ChrisL said:
There are plenty of jobs that people can get sitting down. :roll: Factory workers for one.
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There aren't all that many factories in the US. We are a 70% service economy.
 
Rocketman said:
Please show me where I said everyone on disability is a fraud. I cited one case and you have thrown everyone under the the same scope which is dishonest.
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I haven't been so sure you didn't think that. Now you have cleared it up. No dishonesty was intended.
 
ChrisL said:
I think the examples given are just that, examples. There IS fraud in the system, and it's quite common.
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No, it's not just examples. It's meant to make a point. Here's what happens. By all accounts we have maybe, what, knowledge of 1% that are taking advantage of the system unfairly. Now, burrowed underneath is centuries of resentment and disgust of the disabled burrowing up, and we get neighbors or random people calling up to say so and so is a fraud. Then on the systematic level, based off of little else than speculation, we blow up the concern by stating that even though we do not have evidence that it is a massive (enough to cause regular beneficiaries to worry about their damn neighbors looking at them funny) problem, that doesn't mean there isn't a massive problem down deep. I'm sorry, but it's just another connected issue that many of us have dealt with for years. Uneducated, unqualified yahoos thinking they know what we get and what we ought to get, even though there is no way on God's green earth they would for a second tolerate the same kind of rude behavior or audaciousness. There's many of us who have been approached, out of nowhere, by someone, anyone, that we are frauds or somehow we are being unfair to you folks. It's ridiculous behavior.
 
I've seen someone get put on his ass for accusing someone of parking in a disabled zone when they felt he wasn't eligible. The guy doing the accusing was an idiot, carrying on like a maniac and he picked the wrong person. I bet he finds a new "hobby" now.

(This happened outside of the hospital not far from where ambulances sometimes have to queue for patient transfers. - The guy parked in the disabled zone was waiting for his wife who was wheelchair bound and in having her chemo session which he told me usually lasted for 2 hours. He'd just got back to pick her up and he had every right to be there.)
 
ChrisL said:
People have been picking on YOU personally? Because I was under the impression that the thread was about fraudsters. The point is, we cannot afford to give disability to people for every ailment they might suffer. If they CAN work, even part-time, then they should not be collecting disability payments. There are sit-down jobs, standing jobs, jobs with a combination of the two.
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No thank you.

Working and receiving Social Security disability benefits
 
vvx said:
If I were king, I would eliminate disability. In its place, I would give similar benefits to anyone who wanted them. No disability required. Disability lawyers out of business overnight. No more stories of legitimate disabled people being denied for years. No fraud, because fraud isn't possible when there's no requirements to be met. Anyone who wanted to live on more than the low level of subsistence we provide the disabled would still have reason to acquire a job.
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The Swiss are going to be voting on a program like that. A $2750/month guaranteed income for everyone.
 
Muhammed said:
The Swiss are going to be voting on a program like that. A $2750/month guaranteed income for everyone.
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I don't think it's a bad idea at all, at least if we can afford it. As a country, we have a lot of resources, such as oil, which are drilled up or mined. This is taxed, as the land is owned by the country, as well as the oil company. A lot of that theoretically goes to schools, and such, but there's a trillion-dollar middleman that sucks most of that up. Why note just cut everybody a check? I like it.
 
Serenity said:
I've seen someone get put on his ass for accusing someone of parking in a disabled zone when they felt he wasn't eligible. The guy doing the accusing was an idiot, carrying on like a maniac and he picked the wrong person. I bet he finds a new "hobby" now.

(This happened outside of the hospital not far from where ambulances sometimes have to queue for patient transfers. - The guy parked in the disabled zone was waiting for his wife who was wheelchair bound and in having her chemo session which he told me usually lasted for 2 hours. He'd just got back to pick her up and he had every right to be there.)
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If you don't have a sticker you don't have a right to be there.
 
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