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Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

  • All cameras should be abolished

    Votes: 37 46.8%

  • Abolish red light cameras only

    Votes: 5 6.3%

  • Abolish speeding cameras only

    Votes: 4 5.1%

  • Abolish other types of cameras only (specify)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Allow all cameras to remain in use

    Votes: 22 27.8%

  • Other (specify)

    Votes: 11 13.9%
  • Total voters
    79
It seems to me that the key issue here is not traffic enforcement cameras (at least, not unless you get into the side issue of cameras being acceptable at all, electronic surveillance being unacceptable to some), but rather proper use thereof.

Cameras should be used so that they fine only those who actually violate the law blatently, and drivers should be made aware of the rules involving yellow lights (as I understand them, if light changes yellow, continue on unless you have time to stop before the intersection).

That someone (in this very thread) thought that the way to go was slamming on your brakes when you saw a yellow light, indicates some miscommunication or badly worded laws. Or outright intentional idiocy to make money, which probably happens in a few places.
 
The Mark said:
It seems to me that the key issue here is not traffic enforcement cameras (at least, not unless you get into the side issue of cameras being acceptable at all, electronic surveillance being unacceptable to some), but rather proper use thereof.

Cameras should be used so that they fine only those who actually violate the law blatently, and drivers should be made aware of the rules involving yellow lights (as I understand them, if light changes yellow, continue on unless you have time to stop before the intersection).

That someone (in this very thread) thought that the way to go was slamming on your brakes when you saw a yellow light, indicates some miscommunication or badly worded laws. Or outright intentional idiocy to make money, which probably happens in a few places.
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I lived in Germany in the late 80's early 90's. They used these cameras in quite a few places around where I lived. Their cameras took two pictures, the second a fraction of a second later. This way, they didn't ticket you in some cases, like simply tripping the system but stopping.
 
year2late said:
You have the right to go to court and fight it. many people do.

Now, if you think there is some elaborate scheme where they have CGI your face onto another driver, I am all ears.

I know there are a few (not all) of the intersections that have red light cameras that I feel much safer since they were placed. Too many close calls.

I do agree with a prior poster that the company in charge of the cameras should get a flat rate. They should have no financial incentive to play games with them.
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Yes, a person can lose a day or more of employment or even lose their job by missing work to dispute a robo computer that filed a case and accusation against them.
 
joko104 said:
Yes, a person can lose a day or more of employment or even lose their job by missing work to dispute a robo computer that filed a case and accusation against them.
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IF you get one in a state that you may not go back to for years and it does not cooperate with your home state, you can simply ignore them.
 
The Mark said:
It seems to me that the key issue here is not traffic enforcement cameras (at least, not unless you get into the side issue of cameras being acceptable at all, electronic surveillance being unacceptable to some), but rather proper use thereof.

Cameras should be used so that they fine only those who actually violate the law blatently, and drivers should be made aware of the rules involving yellow lights (as I understand them, if light changes yellow, continue on unless you have time to stop before the intersection).

That someone (in this very thread) thought that the way to go was slamming on your brakes when you saw a yellow light, indicates some miscommunication or badly worded laws. Or outright intentional idiocy to make money, which probably happens in a few places.
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I didn't see someone saying anything about "slamming on brakes". Maybe I missed it. I seem to remember someone talking about pumping the brakes a few times when someone is too close. Now if I am on the freeway and some idiot is too close, I will tap my brakes a few times and they usually get the clue. In general, if someone is acting like an asshole on the freeway (tailgating, weaving/speeding, and such) I usually just try to get out of their way.

But frankly, are we not all responsible for the basic rules that we learned and took a test on for the DMV?
 
Rocketman said:
IF you get one in a state that you may not go back to for years and it does not cooperate with your home state, you can simply ignore them.
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That is risky.
 
year2late said:
I didn't see someone saying anything about "slamming on brakes". Maybe I missed it. I seem to remember someone talking about pumping the brakes a few times when someone is too close. Now if I am on the freeway and some idiot is too close, I will tap my brakes a few times and they usually get the clue. In general, if someone is acting like an asshole on the freeway (tailgating, weaving/speeding, and such) I usually just try to get out of their way.

But frankly, are we not all responsible for the basic rules that we learned and took a test on for the DMV?
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It was multiple pages ago. I was not referring to the "brake check" bit.
 
joko104 said:
That is risky.
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I have been in the Nashville warrant storage room in the basement of the courthouse, you would laugh your ass off if you saw all those, there are probably in excess of 500,000
 
year2late said:
You have the right to go to court and fight it. many people do.

Now, if you think there is some elaborate scheme where they have CGI your face onto another driver, I am all ears.

I know there are a few (not all) of the intersections that have red light cameras that I feel much safer since they were placed. Too many close calls.

I do agree with a prior poster that the company in charge of the cameras should get a flat rate. They should have no financial incentive to play games with them.
Click to expand...

In the early days of red-light cameras the photo was taken of the front of the vehicle along with the driver's face. This allowed LE to match the driver with the offense, and the offense went on the driver's record as an infraction. Assessing personal individual responsibility, what a concept, eh? It CAN be done, and has been done, but LE doesn't like it, because some people were able to beat the ticket this way. The visor might cover their face, no front license plate, or whatever.

Changing it to the way it is now, by making it a minor civil offense and not an infraction, eliminates the driver getting their record dinged... which LE doesn't really like either, but it lowers the burden of proof to virtually nothing, so... they get to keep more of the money. If this isn't solid evidence that the money is more important than teaching the driver a lesson, then you're (generic 'you') simply not willing to have an open mind.

And yes, you can technically fight it, but the deck is stacked against you.
 
The Mark said:
It seems to me that the key issue here is not traffic enforcement cameras (at least, not unless you get into the side issue of cameras being acceptable at all, electronic surveillance being unacceptable to some), but rather proper use thereof.

Cameras should be used so that they fine only those who actually violate the law blatently, and drivers should be made aware of the rules involving yellow lights (as I understand them, if light changes yellow, continue on unless you have time to stop before the intersection).

That someone (in this very thread) thought that the way to go was slamming on your brakes when you saw a yellow light, indicates some miscommunication or badly worded laws. Or outright intentional idiocy to make money, which probably happens in a few places.
Click to expand...

Unless already in the intersection, slamming on your brakes if the light turns yellow is the only certain way to be in compliance with the dehumanized computers-rule-humans law.
 
Frankly, I have no issue with it being on their driving record. To me, it is part of the deterrent.

It is not rocket science, don't run the red light.

Learn to pay better attention.

I have to admit, I have been the victim of idiot drivers that do not seem to think the rules apply to them - so I am pretty sensitive.
 
joko104 said:
Unless already in the intersection, slamming on your brakes if the light turns yellow is the only certain way to be in compliance with the dehumanized computers-rule-humans law.
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Why not just comply with the law?
 
joko104 said:
Unless already in the intersection, slamming on your brakes if the light turns yellow is the only certain way to be in compliance with the dehumanized computers-rule-humans law.
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Then either you're wrong about the law, or the law is wrong.

I was assuming the former, because it makes no sense.
 
The Mark said:
Then either you're wrong about the law, or the law is wrong.

I was assuming the former, because it makes no sense.
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No one yet has explained how a person can avoid a redlight ticket with certainty given you have no control over any other vehicles in front of or around you, nor any control over pedestrians or animals. Such intersections also post no signs of how long the yellow lasts or have any stop-watch display show how much time is left.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Why not just comply with the law?
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Why not show how that is certainly possible with redlight camera systems rather than just continuously cite a slogan about what is now for some their computer-gods?

Slamming on the brakes is how to "comply with the law." Of course, all vehicles do not stop at the same rate.
 
I don't have a link handy, but I have read that in some jurisdictions that some people have gotten red-light tickets for making a right turn on red... and which is legal in those jurisdictions... but still couldn't get the ticket dismissed because the driver's word alone wasn't good enough.

So much for "why don't you just comply with the law".
 
joko104 said:
Why not show how that is certainly possible with redlight camera systems rather than just continuously cite a slogan about what is now for some their computer-gods?

Slamming on the brakes is how to "comply with the law." Of course, all vehicles do not stop at the same rate.
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Last year while in Chicago, I was sitting at an intersection waiting to turn left and of course it had those damn cameras, there was a Chicago cop are behind me. I sat through three lights because I would not change pulling into the intersection and getting caught when the light changed. After the 3rd time the officer walked to my window and asked if I was having a medical probalem. I said hell no, these damn cameras keep people from using intelligence when driving in your town. I got to go on the next light.
 
Rocketman said:
Last year while in Chicago, I was sitting at an intersection waiting to turn left and of course it had those damn cameras, there was a Chicago cop are behind me. I sat through three lights because I would not change pulling into the intersection and getting caught when the light changed. After the 3rd time the officer walked to my window and asked if I was having a medical probalem. I said hell no, these damn cameras keep people from using intelligence when driving in your town. I got to go on the next light.
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Absolutely, the only even possible way to be CERTAIN you are not in the intersection when a light turns red is:

1. Wait until all other cars have totally cleared the intersection and no one in front of you while the light still green. Basically stop when you are the first car on green light waiting until the intersection is empty and it still green.
2. Be certain there are no pedestrians around that even MIGHT step into the intersection.
3. Basically there are no other cars at the intersection at all since you don't know if any might pull out forcing you to stop to avoid a collision.

Otherwise, a person has to do what you did. Just sit there. Basically forever.
 
joko104 said:
Absolutely, the only even possible way to be CERTAIN you are not in the intersection when a light turns red is:

1. Wait until all other cars have totally cleared the intersection and no one in front of you while the light still green. Basically stop when you are the first car on green light waiting until the intersection is empty and it still green.
2. Be certain there are no pedestrians around that even MIGHT step into the intersection.
3. Basically there are no other cars at the intersection at all since you don't know if any might pull out forcing you to stop to avoid a collision.

Otherwise, a person has to do what you did. Just sit there. Basically forever.
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yep, and every local at that intersection hates you for it. They have been programmed to accept them as part of life.
 
year2late said:
Frankly, I have no issue with it being on their driving record. To me, it is part of the deterrent.

It is not rocket science, don't run the red light.

Learn to pay better attention.

I have to admit, I have been the victim of idiot drivers that do not seem to think the rules apply to them - so I am pretty sensitive.
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Exactly,,,,,the premise of no accountability runs with the whole leftist pipe dream theory of life! Wait though,,,,,let a liberal Cop hater become the least bit offended in any way,,,,,,and they call the Cops crying! lol
 
joko104 said:
No one yet has explained how a person can avoid a redlight ticket with certainty given you have no control over any other vehicles in front of or around you, nor any control over pedestrians or animals. Such intersections also post no signs of how long the yellow lasts or have any stop-watch display show how much time is left.
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Well if avoiding the pink elephant in the road made you run the red light, show the video to the judge.

Sometimes I feel like I am the only person who got a red light ticket that deserved it. I got the notice, logged on and saw the video, said oh hell. Paid my fine and was more observant after that.

If you do not tailgate the person in front of you, when they properly decide not to speed up at the end of the yellow, you should not rear end them at that time.
 
joko104 said:
No one yet has explained how a person can avoid a redlight ticket with certainty given you have no control over any other vehicles in front of or around you, nor any control over pedestrians or animals. Such intersections also post no signs of how long the yellow lasts or have any stop-watch display show how much time is left.
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Once I was gonna run a late yellow as I was following the car ahead of me. Well, the guy decides to try and stop even though that was impossible, and then he guns it and takes off. I was left slamming on the breaks and stopping in the middle of the intersection. I had to get it in gear quick and go. There was a cop going the other way who stopped and I assumed he was gonna get me. He just looked at me and watched me drive off.
 
year2late said:
Well if avoiding the pink elephant in the road made you run the red light, show the video to the judge.

Sometimes I feel like I am the only person who got a red light ticket that deserved it. I got the notice, logged on and saw the video, said oh hell. Paid my fine and was more observant after that.

If you do not tailgate the person in front of you, when they properly decide not to speed up at the end of the yellow, you should not rear end them at that time.
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:Guilty unless proven innocent" is a growing viewpoint.
 
joko104 said:
:Guilty unless proven innocent" is a growing viewpoint.
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So what you want is a court trial for every episode?

Isn't it just easier to pay attention and not run the red light?

Like I said, am I the only person who got one of those tickets and actually says "crap, I did it" and learn from my mistakes.
 
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