If you lived in 1938 Germany...[W:104]

mbig · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
Absolute straw, I said you are making the same false arguments that German Fascists used to demonize the Jews. You are using a guilt by association argument and you are getting close to saying that Muslims have an inherent predilection to terrorism.

I am saying it.
The religion does indeed have an inherent component of/predilection for intolerance and violence.
(But please spare us the strawman word 'terrorism', though they are hugely over-represented/near-sweep in that field too. But no, Not "all muslims are terrorists". Doh)
It's scriptural and degree of piety towards that scripture.

Many People die EVERY Day in the Name of Islam. Make my day.

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

Gardener said:
I pointed out many ENORMOUS differences between the situation vis a vis the Nazis and Jews with the situation today regarding Muslims and the west.

You created a false narrative by denying that the NAZI's went after Jews based on their religion. Anti-semitism is based on religion. The anti Muslim feelings you and others in the US have is based on the religious identifier. It is NOT about ethnicity.

Neither your own extremely dishonest agenda nor that of the individual who subverted this thread by trying to make it about Muslims has any bearing on the issue.

The issue? If the issue is one group who wants to persecute another group based on their religion....

Get an education. It may help prevent you from saying as many ridiculous things as you do.

This is ironic coming from someone who believes NAZI persecution of the Jews was not based on the religious identifier.

Anagram · Oct 10, 2013

Who can say for certain. I believe that I would resist in some way if I thought I could get away with it, but I seriously doubt I would've been so outspoken or actively resist enough to put myself into grave danger.

Mithros · Oct 10, 2013

Gardener said:
It happens to be the subject of this thread as posed in the o.p.

Seriously? You're going to give me crap about extending a pretty serious answer to cover the entire time period in which the Jews were persecuted?

The Nazi's pogrom against the Jews began in 1933. It started with hate filled rhetoric, and slowly transitioned into thuggery. The extermination of the Jews didn't begin until 1941, and the Final Solution wasn't implemented until 1942. I really don't see the problem of extending my answer to cover the entirety of the Third Reich.

Sheesh.

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

mbig said:
The religion does indeed have an inherent component of intolerance and violence.

Go ahead then and take the next step and say that Muslims have an inherent predilection to killing...or other terrorist acts. I dare you.

(But please spare us the strawman word 'terrorism', though they are hugely over-represented/near-sweep in that field too. But no, Not "all muslims are terrorists". Doh)
It's scriptural and degree of piety towards that scripture.

I did not bring up the terrorist moniker......read better.

Many People die EVERY Day of Islam. Make my day.

There you go you are almost there.

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

mbig said:
I am saying it.

No, you did not...again I dare you to explicitly say that Muslims, due to their religion, have an inherent predilection for violence and or terrorism.

mbig · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
Go ahead then and take the next step and say that Muslims have an inherent predilection to killing...or other terrorist acts. I dare you. a regular on this topic
I did not bring up the terrorist moniker......read better.

I already said it and have backed it SCORES of times on this board.
You are Not a regular on the topic.

There you go you are almost there.

I am 100% there.
Your Empty and ominous innuendo, that holding such an opinion is unthinkable/irrational/bigoted, is just an Empty opinion.

I repeat: Many people die EVERY Day in the NAME of Islam.
And are Cleansed/Persecuted on that same basis by not just individuals but by Muslim country Governments and Mainstream clergy therein.

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

mbig said:
I already said it and have backed it SCORES of times on this board.
You are Not a regular on the topic.

I am 100% there.
Your Empty and ominous innuendo, that holding such an opinion is unthinkable/irrational/bigoted, is just an Empty opinion.

I repeat: Many people die EVERY Day in the NAME of Islam.
And are Cleansed/Persecuted on that same basis.

That is hate speech:

18. Hate Messages - Hate Messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as a comment using one of the following towards a “protected group” or an individual based on their identity in a “protected group” in an extreme manner:

A) The support for or a call for violence.
B) The suggestion of removal of essential civil liberties.
C) Claims of severe dehumanization.
D) Claims of illegal behavior across the entire group.

Protected groups under this rule:
a) Race
b) Ethnicity
c) Religion (also atheists)
d) Sexual orientation
e) National origin
f) Gender (including transgendered)
g) Disability

You are in violation of the forum rules.

mbig · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
That is hate speech:

18. Hate Messages - Hate Messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as a comment using one of the following towards a “protected group” or an individual based on their identity in a “protected group” in an extreme manner:

A) The support for or a call for violence.
B) The suggestion of removal of essential civil liberties.
C) Claims of severe dehumanization.
D) Claims of illegal behavior across the entire group.

Protected groups under this rule:
a) Race
b) Ethnicity
c) Religion (also atheists)
d) Sexual orientation
e) National origin
f) Gender (including transgendered)
g) Disability

You are in violation of the forum rules.

WRONG.
I specifically Cleared those phrases when it was being discussed:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/feedb...-messages-w-27-43-103-a-6.html#post1061996215

mbig said:
.....
So my questions:
1. If one were to say, and Many have, "Islam is inherently violent", or "Islam is Inordinately violent", or the Wilders-esque "the Koran reads like Mein Kampf"; are any of those Now in violation?

2. Is this string/OP which Claims there are Racial differences in IQ still legal?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/scien...ences-average-iq-largely-genetic-w-957-a.html

Kal wanted an answer to MY questions too:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/feedb...-messages-w-27-43-103-a-7.html#post1061996274
CC Gave it.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/feedb...-messages-w-27-43-103-a-8.html#post1061996376

CaptainCourtesy said:
And as an aside, no example that I have seen posted in this thread would be considered EXTREME.

Further, you had NO Factual comeback to My statements.
NONE whatsoever.
Trying to Legislate/Rule-out the TRUTH,
DESPICABLE, you Lose on Two fronts.
Tho you do have a shot at at Empty/Emptiest PC of the year award.

Higgins86 · Oct 10, 2013

Majority people would of played along its human nature.

Hard Truth · Oct 10, 2013

I would actively resist it, but it would only take a couple of beatings or arrests to convince me to leave the country. After I was safe in another country, I would actively call for boycotts, sanctions, interventions, and allowing Jewish immigrants into other countries (esp the USA) and make donations to immigrant assistance. I think/hope.

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

mbig said:
WRONG.
I specifically Cleared those phrases when it was being discussed:

Your links are a absolute mess as is your argument.

Your argument is that Muslims are inherently violent and terroristic due to their religion.

This is hate speech by any measure.

mbig · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
Your links are a absolute mess as is your argument.

Wrong.
My links were significantly good enough to prove my point even before my final 4:40 edit and your 4:42 post.
I cleared those phrases because I had used them for YEARS here with Extensive Documentation.

Gimme said:
ten
Your argument is that Muslims are inherently violent and terroristic due to their religion.

Inordinately Violent and Intolerant, Yes, and this is Inherent to their religion scripturally.
Yep.

Gimmes said:
This is hate speech by any measure.

I Gaveyasometruth, you re faux-appalled and tried to legislate it away without refuting (or even disagreeing) with any of it.

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

mbig said:
Iniordinately Violent and IntolerantYes and this is Inherent to their religion scripturally.
Yep.

I understand that English is very difficult for you, but I see that you are trying to walk back your argument from "Muslims are inherently violent"....to...."The Muslim RELIGION is inherently violent".

mbig · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
I understand that English is very difficult for you, but I see that you are trying to walk back your argument from "Muslims are inherently violent"....to...."The Muslim RELIGION is inherently violent".

I'm not walking back anything.
I will go simply with "inherently" if you like!
Try and box me in... Beat you any way you want.

and let me Reiterate from the last page:

I repeat: Many people die EVERY Day in the NAME of Islam.
And are Cleansed/Persecuted on that same basis by not just individuals but by Muslim country Governments and Mainstream clergy therein.

Got it?

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

mbig said:
I'm not walking back anything.
I will go simply with "inherently" if you like!
Try and box me in... Beat you any way you want.

and let Reiterate from the last page:

I repeat: Many people die EVERY Day in the NAME of Islam.
And are Cleansed/Persecuted on that same basis by not just individuals but by Muslim country Governments and Mainstream clergy therein.

Got it?

No you are still dancing around, playing on the edge.

Just simply say what you admitted was your argument but could not actually state:

"Muslims are inherently violent and terroristic because of their religion."

DaveFagan · Oct 10, 2013

Higgins86 said:
Majority people would of played along its human nature.

A great deal would depend on the individual's age. I was a blind patriot until I was about 22-23 and started to wake up. Vietnam was a good education. I'd have probably been brainwashed and gone along with the Nazis in my youth, but would have rebelled in my maturity. I think there are many of us that would have been exactly the same.

Gardener · Oct 10, 2013

Mithros said:
Seriously? You're going to give me crap about extending a pretty serious answer to cover the entire time period in which the Jews were persecuted?

The Nazi's pogrom against the Jews began in 1933. It started with hate filled rhetoric, and slowly transitioned into thuggery. The extermination of the Jews didn't begin until 1941, and the Final Solution wasn't implemented until 1942. I really don't see the problem of extending my answer to cover the entirety of the Third Reich.

Sheesh.

If you think my explaining to you that he referenced 1938 because it was the subject of the thread was giving you crap, you haven't seen me give crap.

molten_dragon · Oct 10, 2013

radcen said:
If you lived in 1938 Germany... How do you believe you would have reacted to Jewish persecution?

1) I would have supported it fully and openly.
2) I would have fallen in line and said nothing.
3) I would have said nothing openly, but not actively supported it.
4) I would have passively resisted.
5) I would have openly resisted and been outspoken against it.
6) I would have been willing to put myself physically in harms way to protect them.
7) I like to think I would have done #4 thru #6, but probably would have done #2 or #3.

I purposely did not include "Other" as an option this time, as that is a cop-out for this question. If you cannot answer given the range of options above, you're participation is not really necessary.

ETA: Please note that the question is intended to be from a non-Jewish perspective.

It's really hard to say what I would have done. It would depend on my situation too. If I was single, I'd be more likely to oppose it vocally than if I had a family to worry about. I'd probably be more likely to oppose it more if I had close friends who were Jewish as well. As it is with me and my wife, I'd probably have passively resisted.

Gardener · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
That is hate speech:

18. Hate Messages - Hate Messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as a comment using one of the following towards a “protected group” or an individual based on their identity in a “protected group” in an extreme manner:

A) The support for or a call for violence.
B) The suggestion of removal of essential civil liberties.
C) Claims of severe dehumanization.
D) Claims of illegal behavior across the entire group.

Protected groups under this rule:
a) Race
b) Ethnicity
c) Religion (also atheists)
d) Sexual orientation
e) National origin
f) Gender (including transgendered)
g) Disability

You are in violation of the forum rules.

My goodness -- To be made a moderator despite being such a newbie. I'm impressed.

While you were at mod school,did they teach you anything about derailing threads, by any chance, though? The topic of this thread is about what people would do were they in Nazi Germany in 1938.

I didn't notice anything in there asking people to come up with the most stupid comparisons they could possibly create in order to make it about present day Muslims, instead.

mbig · Oct 10, 2013

Gimmesometruth said:
No you are still dancing around, playing on the edge.

Just simply say what you admitted was your argument but could not actually state:

"Muslims are inherently violent and terroristic because of their religion."

That's not precisely what I said.
QUOTE My post, don't make crap up.
What are those BS quote signs in Your post?

I always try and avoid (or point out) the strawman "terrorist" because that word tries to paint/minimize the problem as a Few crazies, when it IS indeed "inherent" in the religion itself.
But yes, I did say, beyond the Larger problem (which is Literalism to an Intolerant book) they have a "near sweep" in terrorism too.
Yup.
What about it?

Your posts are Jokes. You don't want to/CAN'T debate on substance, you want to get me thrown off or paint me as a bigot without Ever touching Fact 1.

again
Many people die EVERY Day in the NAME of Islam.
And are Cleansed/Persecuted on that same basis by not just individuals but by Muslim country Governments and Mainstream clergy therein.

Surtr · Oct 10, 2013

radcen said:
If you lived in 1938 Germany... How do you believe you would have reacted to Jewish persecution?

Probably the same way I deal with the American hatred of Muslims. I wouldn't intentionally put myself in harms way, but I would definitely be outspoken about it.

Tucker Case · Oct 10, 2013

It depends on quite a few factors. Am I being transported back exactly as I am now, 36 with a wife and kid? I'm going to be trying to get the **** out of the country, or "falling in line" in order to protect my family (while I try to get them the hell out of there at least).

If I'm as I was at 20? I'd like to think I'd resist in some way, if not escape to Britain in order to join their fight.

APACHERAT · Oct 10, 2013

radcen said:
If you lived in 1938 Germany... How do you believe you would have reacted to Jewish persecution?

1) I would have supported it fully and openly.
2) I would have fallen in line and said nothing.
3) I would have said nothing openly, but not actively supported it.
4) I would have passively resisted.
5) I would have openly resisted and been outspoken against it.
6) I would have been willing to put myself physically in harms way to protect them.
7) I like to think I would have done #4 thru #6, but probably would have done #2 or #3.

I purposely did not include "Other" as an option this time, as that is a cop-out for this question. If you cannot answer given the range of options above, you're participation is not really necessary.

ETA: Please note that the question is intended to be from a non-Jewish perspective.

What about the persecution of Jews that was taking place all over Europe before 1938 like in France and Poland ? It just wasn't a German thing, it was going on for hundreds of years all across Europe.

Then there was the "Madagascar Plan." -> Madagascar Plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Madagascar Virtual Jewish Tour | Jewish Virtual Library

Even FDR prevented German Jews refuges from landing on American soil. -> The Tragedy of S.S. St. Louis | Jewish Virtual Library

Gimmesometruth · Oct 10, 2013

Gardener said:
My goodness -- To be made a moderator despite being such a newbie. I'm impressed.

While you were at mod school,did they teach you anything about derailing threads, by any chance, though? The topic of this thread is about what people would do were they in Nazi Germany in 1938.

I didn't notice anything in there asking people to come up with the most stupid comparisons they could possibly create in order to make it about present day Muslims, instead.

Um, I did not bring up Muslims, nor was I the one making the same arguments used by NAZI's against the Jews now being posted against Muslims.

I mean.....the irony just escapes you.....and Mr B.

If you lived in 1938 Germany...[W:104]

How do you believe you would have reacted to Jewish persecution?

I would have supported it fully and openly.

I would have fallen in line and said nothing.

I would have said nothing openly, but not actively supported it.

I would have passively resisted.

I would have openly resisted and been outspoken against it.

I would have been willing to put myself physically in harms way to protect them.

I like to think I would have done #4 thru #6, but probably would have done #2 or #3.

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