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Shutdown Pool - When does it reopen?

When will the government shutdown end?

  • Total voters
    57
upsideguy said:
The US credit rating has remained unchanged EXCEPT for the downgrade the came as a result of the threat of not raising the debt ceiling. If you read the article you would realize that S&P primarily blamed Congress but then wrapped it up in a general indictment of the American political climate. Having facts, figures and cites provides the balls and brains that lets me make that statement.

You, on the other hand, simply shot from the hip.... and as most people shoot from the hip, you pretty much hit your foot as your original assertion is a giant fail. Increasing your debt is not the same thing as hurting your credit rating.
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Nice deflection, now answer the ****ing question, did the debt raise under Obama? Step up be a man.
 
Rocketman said:
Nice deflection, now answer the ****ing question, did the debt raise under Obama? Step up be a man.
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Sorry pal, but you are the one backpeddling from your main assertion, which as you recall was:

Rocketman said:
Obama already hurt our credit rating, I don't recall you bitching about that. Unfortunately for all of us several dumbasses voted this idiot in now we all have to pay thre price.
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I have merely taken you to task on this issue (its debate.... you make an assertion, we speak to that assertion)... Obama did not hurt our credit rating; Congress did.

You were unable to support your assertion, I refuted it (with support), so by debate theory, its in your court. Obfuscating the issue by trying to change your assertion is a tactic often used in debate by those that know they are wrong. The rest of us see through it. You can not back-up your claim that Obama hurt our credit rating, so I suggest you stand down on this one.

The increase in the debt is all together another issue, the blame for which is another discussion.
 
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upsideguy said:
Sorry pal, but you are the one backpeddling from your main assertion, which as you recall was:



I have merely taken you to task on this issue (its debate.... you make an assertion, we speak to that assertion)... Obama did not hurt our credit rating; Congress did.

You were unable to support your assertion, I refuted it (with support), so by debate theory, its in your court. Obfuscating the issue by trying to change your assertion is a tactic often used in debate by those that know they are wrong. The rest of us see through it. You can not back-up your claim that Obama hurt our credit rating, so I suggest you stand down on this one.

The increase in the debt is all together another issue, the blame for which is another discussion.
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Who was in office? the acting President will be credited with this **** up, that is the way it works. Kind of like Bush is blamed for the housing bubble when in fact CRA and Clinton is where the blame should be placed.

Ultimately it takes a deal between the President and Congress, so yes it is Obama.

Ultimately, if Congress and the president can't reach a deal to stabilize and eventually reduce the debt, now at $16 trillion, Moody's will probably cut the United States' current Aaa rating.

Analysis: U.S. credit rating could again take hit in 2013 | Reuters

We know you love Obama, but for once use your brain instead of your heart.
 
Rocketman said:
Who was in office? the acting President will be credited with this **** up, that is the way it works. Kind of like Bush is blamed for the housing bubble when in fact CRA and Clinton is where the blame should be placed.

Ultimately it takes a deal between the President and Congress, so yes it is Obama.

Ultimately, if Congress and the president can't reach a deal to stabilize and eventually reduce the debt, now at $16 trillion, Moody's will probably cut the United States' current Aaa rating.

Analysis: U.S. credit rating could again take hit in 2013 | Reuters

We know you love Obama, but for once use your brain instead of your heart.
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It is Congress that chooses to pass or not pass a CR; or raise or not raise the debt limit. The President has no role in the process. Yes, the Pres can veto such a resolution, but otherwise is not party to it. The failure of congress to smoothly raise the debt ceiling in 2011 was their choice. Obama had nothing to do with it.

I presented you with facts and supported opinions, you countered with emotional argument. We know you hate Obama. It could be because he is a Dem; it could be because he is black; it could be because he is ..... whatever the reason, use your brain instead of your heart which rots with hatred..... If you want to hate the guy, that's ok too... just support your position when you make it. Emotional arguments are unbecoming of this board.
 
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upsideguy said:
It is Congress that chooses to pass or not pass a CR or pass or not raise the debt limit. The President has no role in the process. Yes, the Pres can veto such a resolution, but otherwise is not party to it. The failure of congress to smoothly raise the debt ceiling in 2011 was their choice. Obama had nothing to do with it.

I presented you with facts and supported opinions, You countered with emotional argument. We know you hate Obama. It could be because he is a Dem; it could be because he is black; it could be because he is ..... whatever the reason, use your brain instead of your heart which rots with hatred.
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You love for Obama will not save him from a poor leadership record. He has destroyed the country and is responsible for the shutdown now.
 
Rocketman said:
You love for Obama will not save him from a poor leadership record. He has destroyed the country and is responsible for the shutdown now.
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I don't think that was really the point of the post you were responding to, but then, I've been wrong before. BTW, how do you feel about Congress? Are you one of the few who believe they are doing a good job?
 
Rocketman said:
You love for Obama will not save him from a poor leadership record. He has destroyed the country and is responsible for the shutdown now.
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Yes, because the Cons put a poison pill in the CR and he won't sign it; he is responsible for the shutdown? Right. They put the poison pill in the CR because they (the cons) wanted the shut down.

Meanwhile, almost 50% of your DP peers fully blame the Cons and 80% either fully or substantially blame the Cons.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/174116-do-you-hold-fault-govt-shutdown.html

But, no sense in helping you with reality. There is too much good smut on those political porn sites you like, who am I to deny you your pleasure? Be careful, though, too much of that stuff and you could go politically blind.... wait, too late.
 
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Zyphlin said:
Alright folks, lets have some fun.

This thread is NOT for debating whether or not you agree with the shut down, whose at fault, etc. PLEASE park your partisanship at the door. This poll is for a bit of fun.

When do you think the government reopens, and if you want, why? (Please see the previous request).

Let's see who out of us manages to be good prognosticators at the end of this whole thing.
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They'll spend the rest of this week bickering back and forth. They'll get their act together over the weekend. Hit snags on Monday, then hammer it out between the 14th and 17th.

They wouldn't dare not raise the debt ceiling. In a couple days you'll start seeing more economists on tv saying why screwing with a reserve currency like that will be devastating for both our international financial prestige and the global economy, etc. Hopefully we can avoid another credit downgrade during this mess.
 
Well, I just saw ANOTHER clip on the news of Boner begging Obama to come to talk with him. Why won't he talk?
 
SBu said:
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They wouldn't dare not raise the debt ceiling. ... Hopefully we can avoid another credit downgrade during this mess.
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I hope you are correct. If congress fails to raise the debt ceiling I fear we will be in for a deep recession and if people think the last one was bad...well I fear one caused by failing to raise the debt ceiling will be even worse.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, I just saw ANOTHER clip on the news of Boner begging Obama to come to talk with him. Why won't he talk?
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Boehner may be right in his principles, but he sure is sending mixed messages. He is either going to have to get specific publicly, or he's probably not going to receive a meaningful response. It's on him to tell the president and the public specifically what he wants to discuss. He hasn't done that, to my knowledge, but he has changed his offers rather frequently. Not good tactics.
 
humbolt said:
Boehner may be right in his principles, but he sure is sending mixed messages. He is either going to have to get specific publicly, or he's probably not going to receive a meaningful response. It's on him to tell the president and the public specifically what he wants to discuss. He hasn't done that, to my knowledge, but he has changed his offers rather frequently. Not good tactics.
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I think Boner has to tell Obama that the Teabaggers are doing a Blazing Saddles remake and holding a gun to their own head and he thinks they are bat**** crazy enough to pull the trigger. I'm still putting my bet on Oct. 16th, but only because I think there are no bullets in the gun. "Hope springs eternal"
 
DaveFagan said:
I think Boner has to tell Obama that the Teabaggers are doing a Blazing Saddles remake and holding a gun to their own head and he thinks they are bat**** crazy enough to pull the trigger. I'm still putting my bet on Oct. 16th, but only because I think there are no bullets in the gun. "Hope springs eternal"
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I thought almost exactly the opposite, and Obama was the one holding the gun. Either way, it's becoming a real circus on both sides on the aisle, and the media absolutely loves it. I think they'll come up with a short term solution, and buy themselves time to carve out new positions and possibly even talk to each other on issues of substance. These positions both sides are taking look a lot like a game of musical chairs. Someone needs to bring in a few new chairs just to mix things up a bit. As you say, hope does spring eternal. We need to cut spending and Boehner needs to be specific about that which he proposes to cut. Obama needs to quit the political posturing and address those specific items. Right this minute I think the onus is on Boehner to publicly provide specific items for discussion.
 
humbolt said:
Boehner may be right in his principles, but he sure is sending mixed messages. He is either going to have to get specific publicly, or he's probably not going to receive a meaningful response. It's on him to tell the president and the public specifically what he wants to discuss. He hasn't done that, to my knowledge, but he has changed his offers rather frequently. Not good tactics.
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I understand, and I'm certainly not saying one party is more accountable than the other for this fiasco. Both are equally responsible. I just think the president should be the one to set examples for the rest of the "children." He seems to be joining in on the childish behavior instead though. I just remember him saying that he was going to be the president to bring the opposition together and get things done. It's terribly disappointing.
 
ChrisL said:
I understand, and I'm certainly not saying one party is more accountable than the other for this fiasco. Both are equally responsible. I just think the president should be the one to set examples for the rest of the "children." He seems to be joining in on the childish behavior instead though. I just remember him saying that he was going to be the president to bring the opposition together and get things done. It's terribly disappointing.
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I'd support Boehner if I thought he and his party had clearly focused their tactics and objectives. We need to get spending under control. I have become resigned to the tactics Obama employs, and if I have reached such a conclusion, how much sooner should Boehner and his collegues have reached that same conclusion? It bothers me that they haven't reached a consensus among themselves that outlines specific actions they should be willing to publicly state. I believe they should now look to a short term solution for both the shutdown and the debt ceiling, and give themselves some room to address entitlement spending in an open discussion. Obama is unwilling to supplant political gain for the public interest. Boehner should be a little bigger than that. We need it.
 
humbolt said:
I'd support Boehner if I thought he and his party had clearly focused their tactics and objectives. We need to get spending under control. I have become resigned to the tactics Obama employs, and if I have reached such a conclusion, how much sooner should Boehner and his collegues have reached that same conclusion? It bothers me that they haven't reached a consensus among themselves that outlines specific actions they should be willing to publicly state. I believe they should now look to a short term solution for both the shutdown and the debt ceiling, and give themselves some room to address entitlement spending in an open discussion. Obama is unwilling to supplant political gain for the public interest. Boehner should be a little bigger than that. We need it.
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It certainly does seem as if we are lacking adult supervision in Congress. :mrgreen:
 
minnie616 said:
I hope you are correct. If congress fails to raise the debt ceiling I fear we will be in for a deep recession and if people think the last one was bad...well I fear one caused by failing to raise the debt ceiling will be even worse.
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I'm not sure it would be as immediate and deep as the last one, but it would be more of a long term thing and the effects would hit us one after the other over time. So I guess I think it would be deeper long term. Certainly we would get hit in stocks/dollar valuation immediately. No doubt those would recover over time, but the long term economic effects would press on our necks for a much longer time.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, I just saw ANOTHER clip on the news of Boner begging Obama to come to talk with him. Why won't he talk?
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Because negotiating every time the normal functioning of the government is on the line will lead to a catastrophic failure of government somewhere down the line. This is ridiculous. I'm sick of the slavish devotion to equivalency that we seem to have. Not every position is equal and not everything is worth negotiating on. For once the President is completely in the right.
 
I guessed sometime towards the end of the month around the Halloween weekend when it will get less attention. But honestly who could possibly know.
 
upsideguy said:
Yes, because the Cons put a poison pill in the CR and he won't sign it; he is responsible for the shutdown? Right. They put the poison pill in the CR because they (the cons) wanted the shut down.

Meanwhile, almost 50% of your DP peers fully blame the Cons and 80% either fully or substantially blame the Cons.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/174116-do-you-hold-fault-govt-shutdown.html

But, no sense in helping you with reality. There is too much good smut on those political porn sites you like, who am I to deny you your pleasure? Be careful, though, too much of that stuff and you could go politically blind.... wait, too late.
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What a surprise, a site that is mostly liberal to begin with. You are politically blind my friend. You think Obama and company can continue to **** working Americans and get away with it without reprecussions. SHUT IT DOWN AND KEEP IT SHUT DOWN
 
Sherman123 said:
Because negotiating every time the normal functioning of the government is on the line will lead to a catastrophic failure of government somewhere down the line. This is ridiculous. I'm sick of the slavish devotion to equivalency that we seem to have. Not every position is equal and not everything is worth negotiating on. For once the President is completely in the right.
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So basically you think that the republicans should fold on health care?
 
ChrisL said:
So basically you think that the republicans should fold on health care?
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It isn't folding. It is accepting the legality and legitimacy of legislation that has passed and the numerous rebuffs we have received trying to stall or remove it. Bringing down the government is not a legitimate course of action.
 
Sherman123 said:
It isn't folding. It is accepting the legality and legitimacy of legislation that has passed and the numerous rebuffs we have received trying to stall or remove it. Bringing down the government is not a legitimate course of action.
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Passed against the will of the republicans constituents. So you think they should ignore their voting block?
 
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