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Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

Who is at fault for the shutdown?

  • Republicans

    Votes: 87 45.3%

  • Democrats

    Votes: 32 16.7%

  • Both

    Votes: 65 33.9%

  • Neither

    Votes: 8 4.2%
  • Total voters
    192
Diogenes said:
A clean budget is out of the question. The last time the Senate passed a budget was way back before anybody had even heard of an iPad.
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This has nothing to do with passing an omnibus budget. A "clean" resolution in this context means agreeing to end the shutdown without killing off the ACA.


Boehner is the man standing up for America and Americans.
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Not really. He cannot control the Tea Party types, and has allowed himself to be tied into knots by the Hastert Rule. It's not really his fault though, because the TPers are beyond control anyway.

What he should do is end the stalemate. He's too chicken-**** to do it, because he knows he'll lose his leadership position.
 
Great speech by Elizabeth Warren.



Is what she says on target? Is the resistance to the PPACA coming from opposition to women's reproductive rights? If so it would make a ton of sense: whenever there's a position with poor and vaguely thought out arguments, eight times out of ten you'll find religious extremism at the heart of it.
 
Cardinal said:
Great speech by Elizabeth Warren.


Is what she says on target? Is the resistance to the PPACA coming from opposition to women's reproductive rights? If so it would make a ton of sense: whenever there's a position with poor and vaguely thought out arguments, eight times out of ten you'll find religious extremism at the heart of it.
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I believe we are approaching the moment when a "war on women" equivalent to Godwin's Law will be promulgated.:peace

[h=3]Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/h]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law‎
Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has ...
 
Jack Hays said:
I believe we are approaching the moment when a "war on women" equivalent to Godwin's Law will be promulgated.:peace

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law‎
Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has ...
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Gee, thanks for the Wiki link. Godwin's Law is so obscure I doubt anyone here would have heard of it. :roll:

Godwin's Law in any case is a spectacularly dumb analogy, not the least of which is because 1)no Nazis and 2)resistance to women's reproductive rights in the bill was actually a very real thing. But you're pretty new here so I guess you weren't around when it kicked up a giant ****storm on this forum.
 
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Cardinal said:
Gee, thanks for the Wiki link. Godwin's Law is so obscure I doubt anyone here would have heard of it. :roll:

Godwin's Law in any case is a spectacularly dumb analogy, not the least of which is because resistance to women's reproductive rights in the bill was actually a very real thing. But you're pretty new here so I guess you weren't around when it kicked up a giant ****storm on this forum.
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I'm pro-choice so I certainly support women's reproductive rights, but that particular episode seemed to be more about a gratuitous assault on religious freedom than about women. Regardless, I provide links for those interlocutors who may be data-challenged. Glad to see you're not among them. And the analogy was apt.:peace
 
Both, I'd say 75% Democrats and 25% Republicans if I had to somehow give an estimate ammount.
 
Its virtually entirely the GOPs fault. This whole thing is a Republican intraparty squabble.

You dont shut the government down because you cant pass laws you dont want. You dontt screw with the debt ceiling because you are powerless in any other means. Its really a shmeful chapter in our history.
 
Jack Hays said:
I'm pro-choice so I certainly support women's reproductive rights, but that particular episode seemed to be more about a gratuitous assault on religious freedom than about women. Regardless, I provide links for those interlocutors who may be data-challenged.
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Wait, are you seriously proud of yourself for linking to Wikipedia over the term "Godwin?" Really??

Jack Hays said:
Glad to see you're not among them. And the analogy was apt.:peace
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The analogy was retarded, because the resistance I'm referring to was a very real thing. Your use of the term Godwin waters down the significance of Godwin almost as much as Godwin waters down the significance of Hitler.
 
Visbek said:
What he should do is end the stalemate. He's too chicken-**** to do it, because he knows he'll lose his leadership position.
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That part sounds like you're talking about Obama or Reid... :lamo
 
Cardinal said:
Wait, are you seriously proud of yourself for linking to Wikipedia over the term "Godwin?" Really??



The analogy was retarded, because the resistance I'm referring to was a very real thing. Your use of the term Godwin waters down the significance of Godwin almost as much as Godwin waters down the significance of Hitler.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
100% Republicans. There would be no issue is Boner would allow an up/down vote in the house. Instead, the Republicans are cowtowing to the wacko grandstanding game playing of the teabaggers and they are holding the American people hostage. Its disgraceful. Boner should grow a spine and put the budget to an up/down vote without all the teabagging conditions.
 
disneydude said:
100% Republicans. There would be no issue is Boner would allow an up/down vote in the house. Instead, the Republicans are cowtowing to the wacko grandstanding game playing of the teabaggers and they are holding the American people hostage. Its disgraceful. Boner should grow a spine and put the budget to an up/down vote without all the teabagging conditions.
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You really need to get out more. The reason the Republicans are doing things the way they are is because they are answering to their constituents' demands.
Now those red state Democrats who are many and up for re-election in 2014, that did not support a delay for one year of Obamacare, or didn't support defunding, or refused to support forcing members of Congress to give up their Cadillac healthcare plans provided at the expense of the taxpayer and join the ranks of those being forced onto Obamacare.......well those are the turkeys you should be concerned over.

Cheers!
 
vesper said:
You really need to get out more. The reason the Republicans are doing things the way they are is because they are answering to their constituents' demands.
Now those red state Democrats who are many and up for re-election in 2014, that did not support a delay for one year of Obamacare, or didn't support defunding, or refused to support forcing members of Congress to give up their Cadillac healthcare plans provided at the expense of the taxpayer and join the ranks of those being forced onto Obamacare.......well those are the turkeys you should be concerned over.

Cheers!
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I have a hard time believing that most Republicans are that stupid.
 
digsbe said:
Both, I'd say 75% Democrats and 25% Republicans if I had to somehow give an estimate ammount.
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This makes no sense.
How do Democrats even share 1% of the blame?

There is no logic what so ever to adding crap about the ACA to the CR.
It is extortion.
The ACA does not even have anything to do with the CR or the debt limit.

You might as well demand other crazy unrelated things too. Like maybe the killing of all cats or zero tax for all millionaires. Makes about the same amount of sense.

Anyone that thinks the Democrats share even 1% of the blame for this is simply misinformed as to what happened.
Next we will have the debt ceiling, the downgrading of our bond credit rating, and the collapse of our currency. This will also be 100% Republican engineered.
 
disneydude said:
I have a hard time believing that most Republicans are that stupid.
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Oh sugar, nothing stupid about it. In their districts they either show an effort to stop this massive mistake or risk not being re-elected.

I don't see any real threat of Republicans in the House to the point of losing the majority but I do see Republicans like Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham in the Senate loosing their seats because there is a group of Conservatives, Libertarians and Independents that are not going to vote for these yahoos that continue to compromise our principles and will challenge them in the upcoming primaries. Too bad McCain won't be among those being challenged this year. We still have to put with that yahoo for another 2 years. And a good number of Democrat senators in the red states are toast. Between Obamacare and supporting legislation that violates 2nd Amendment rights, and unwilling to support a balanced budget, these bozos don't stand a chance.
 
iliveonramen said:
Who ever said that? I hope Dems filibuster everything under the sun like Republicans have. In the past I'd agree that the Dems should respect votes but not anymore. That sort of norm is long gone.
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It's been a recurring theme in this thread and others.
 
vesper said:
Oh sugar, nothing stupid about it. In their districts they either show an effort to stop this massive mistake or risk not being re-elected.

I don't see any real threat of Republicans in the House to the point of losing the majority but I do see Republicans like Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham in the Senate loosing their seats because there is a group of Conservatives, Libertarians and Independents that are not going to vote for these yahoos that continue to compromise our principles and will challenge them in the upcoming primaries. Too bad McCain won't be among those being challenged this year. We still have to put with that yahoo for another 2 years. And a good number of Democrat senators in the red states are toast. Between Obamacare and supporting legislation that violates 2nd Amendment rights, and unwilling to support a balanced budget, these bozos don't stand a chance.
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I tend to agree that as of today, the House is safely Republican. But I would be careful when it comes to the senate, the GOP history of nominating people like Aiken, Mourdock, O'Donnel and others have given senate seats to the Democrats where the Republicans should have won if they had a decent candidate.
 
Perotista said:
I tend to agree that as of today, the House is safely Republican. But I would be careful when it comes to the senate, the GOP history of nominating people like Aiken, Mourdock, O'Donnel and others have given senate seats to the Democrats where the Republicans should have won if they had a decent candidate.
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coulda-woulda-shoulda-Tista;Repubs are bogged down in quick-sand and have to live with it for 13 months;each day we see a half dozen TEAjerks like Stutsman from the House;the list is too long for just the last week
 
NIMBY said:
coulda-woulda-shoulda-Tista;Repubs are bogged down in quick-sand and have to live with it for 13 months;each day we see a half dozen TEAjerks like Stutsman from the House;the list is too long for just the last week
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That in my opinion is their problem. Sometimes I really wonder if they know how to play the political game. It does seem to me at times the Republicans would rather have an ideological candidate win in their primaries only to lose the general. That may well happen here in Georgia, like a Broun vs. Nunn race. A race Broun can't win.
 
Jack Hays said:
Perhaps it's hard to see from LA, but this episode will likely help the Repubs in 2014.:peace
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LOL.....considering that about 80% of the Country think the Republicans are being completely ridiculous....somehow I doubt it.
 
Perotista said:
That in my opinion is their problem. Sometimes I really wonder if they know how to play the political game. It does seem to me at times the Republicans would rather have an ideological candidate win in their primaries only to lose the general. That may well happen here in Georgia, like a Broun vs. Nunn race. A race Broun can't win.
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Speaking as a Dem, we need to get our donkey heads out of our butts at the state level, where Repubs tore us a new one in 2010. And still no Repubs will credit Michael Steele. Governors, state legislatures, the House, the Senate--Repubs have a better ground game while IMV Dems have better candidates.
 
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