• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

Who is at fault for the shutdown?

  • Republicans

    Votes: 87 45.3%

  • Democrats

    Votes: 32 16.7%

  • Both

    Votes: 65 33.9%

  • Neither

    Votes: 8 4.2%
  • Total voters
    192
The Party of No is to blame.
 
Helix said:
Exactly. and if the precedent is set, both sides will hold the budget hostage to get what they want.
Click to expand...

That precedent was set long ago. If you remember, Obama voted to do just that as a Senator.
 
earthworm said:
True.
The problem is the extremists in the Republican party....a lot more so the the "Demo-extremists" .
Click to expand...

I disagree...many Dems opposed both Nixon's and Reagan's plans.
 
mac said:
That's rediculous considering that Obamacare is the only point of contention. Republicans have sent several compromise bills to the Senate and the Senate has flat refused to negotiate. It is the Dems in the Senate that are acting like children.
Click to expand...

How about debate the issue and not attach something that kills the Affordable Care Act in a budget? They know they can't do it that way because they just don't have the votes. So they put a gun to the head of the government and say they will pull the trigger unless Congress defunds the most important piece of legislation of Obama's term. The democrats saying no to that is not them being unwilling to compromise, it's the republicans being childish because they lost.
 
mac said:
As in "We won't negotiate!" That party of no?
Click to expand...

Negotiating time was 2 years ago. Now the GOP, after 30+ votes failing to repeal the ACA, wants to hold the whole government hostage?

The Republican platform is a self fulfilling prophecy. They tell you how bad government is, then they get elected and do their best to prove it.
 
Thorgasm said:
Negotiating time was 2 years ago. Now the GOP, after 30+ votes failing to repeal the ACA, wants to hold the whole government hostage?
Click to expand...

Negotiating time doesn't have a limit.

The Republican platform is a self fulfilling prophecy. They tell you how bad government is, then they get elected and do their best to prove it.
Click to expand...

Insightful.
 
Your Star said:
How about debate the issue and not attach something that kills the Affordable Care Act in a budget? They know they can't do it that way because they just don't have the votes. So they put a gun to the head of the government and say they will pull the trigger unless Congress defunds the most important piece of legislation of Obama's term. The democrats saying no to that is not them being unwilling to compromise, it's the republicans being childish because they lost.
Click to expand...

The issue is Obamacare.
 
mac said:
The issue is Obamacare.
Click to expand...

Then don't attach it to the freaking budget and take the whole government hostage because you do not have the votes to get rid of it!

The republicans don't have the votes to get rid of this law and they need to get the **** over it. You know how we know this? Because they have voted on it 40+ times! You'd think they'd get the message and do something that might actually succeed. We went through an entire election with this being a huge part of it and they lost.

Taking the government hostage because they don't have the votes to push their agenda is childish no matter what side does it. The republicans are being childish and are acting disgraceful.
 
mac said:
And the Dems refusing anything other than exactly what they want is not unreasonable and childish prickisness?
Click to expand...

The status quo is just that. Democrats have no demands for opening the government or raising the debt ceiling. Only the GOP does.
 
As the House continues to send over appropriation bills to partially fund limited government for a limited time, and Harry Reid continues to say NO or refuse to go to conference is going to make Harry Reid and the Democrats look very bad. You haven't seen any Democrat Senators from red states out there defending Obamacare or gun restriction laws have you? Both topics are very unpopular in red states. There are several Democrat senators from red states up for re-election in 2014. Democrats are defending Senate seats in Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, Montana, North Carolina and South Dakota — all GOP-leaning states. Because they chose to stay in line with the rest of their party, they are destined to be toast. And this week our senior citizens received a big packet from Medicare telling them of the upcoming sweeping cuts in their coverage due to Obamacare. Once they all have time to digest all the changes, I envision the elderly taking to the streets with pitchforks and torches before this is over. Another thing working against the Democrats are all the glitches and inability to even sign people up for Obamacare showing this program is not yet ready for prime time and should have been postponed until all the glitches were ironed out. It would have been advantageous for them to have accepted the one year delay offered by the Republicans to iron out all the problems.:mrgreen:
 
mac said:
That precedent was set long ago. If you remember, Obama voted to do just that as a Senator.
Click to expand...

So you'd support a democratic house refusing to vote for a budget or a debt ceiling unless a massive new tax was imposed on the rich? Let's say they want a top marginal rate of seventy percent on those making more than a million a year. Should the Republican senate and president cave? If so, what top marginal rate would you support as a compromise?
 
mac said:
Negotiating time doesn't have a limit.
Click to expand...

Hold every bill hostage then. The voters will know who shut down the govt. They will know who still got paid when the government was shut down. They will vote accordingly.
 
Thorgasm said:
Hold every bill hostage then. The voters will know who shut down the govt. They will know who still got paid when the government was shut down. They will vote accordingly.
Click to expand...

It happened in the mid-90's and it'll happen again now. It's amazing how blind they are.
 
wonder how long before the poll is spammed
 
Your Star said:
Then don't attach it to the freaking budget and take the whole government hostage because you do not have the votes to get rid of it!
Click to expand...

It's a budgetary item, it has to be attached to the budget. :shrug:

The republicans don't have the votes to get rid of this law and they need to get the **** over it. You know how we know this? Because they have voted on it 40+ times! You'd think they'd get the message and do something that might actually succeed. We went through an entire election with this being a huge part of it and they lost.
Click to expand...

They didn't lose, they retained the house. Further, when the Dems were the minority party, they resulted to the same tactics. In fact, these tactics are a result of safegaurds in our government that limits the amount of power the majority has.

Taking the government hostage because they don't have the votes to push their agenda is childish no matter what side does it. The republicans are being childish and are acting disgraceful.
Click to expand...

"Taking govt hostage" is simply hyberbole. :shrug: Did the Dems take govt hostage during the Reagan years in the annual shutdowns that occurred then?
 
Your Star said:
It happened in the mid-90's and it'll happen again now. It's amazing how blind they are.
Click to expand...

I actually think it's worse this time.
 
aberrant85 said:
The status quo is just that. Democrats have no demands for opening the government or raising the debt ceiling. Only the GOP does.
Click to expand...

They have the demand of keeping Obamacare intact, and they are willing to let govt close in order to do so.
 
mac said:
It's a budgetary item, it has to be attached to the budget. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Defunding the program, no it doesn't have to be in the budget.


They didn't lose, they retained the house. Further, when the Dems were the minority party, they resulted to the same tactics. In fact, these tactics are a result of safegaurds in our government that limits the amount of power the majority has.
Click to expand...

They did lose, they lost the presidency and they didn't gain control of the senate. The democrats control 2/3 of the government and the republicans are just going to have to learn to live with it. They lost, period. These tactics are not a safeguard against the majority these tactics will kill our nation.


"Taking govt hostage" is simply hyberbole. :shrug: Did the Dems take govt hostage during the Reagan years in the annual shutdowns that occurred then?
Click to expand...

I don't know the specifics of those instances, but if it was like this then yes it was. This kind of tactic is irresponsible and harms the entire country.
 
Helix said:
So you'd support a democratic house refusing to vote for a budget or a debt ceiling unless a massive new tax was imposed on the rich? Let's say they want a top marginal rate of seventy percent on those making more than a million a year. Should the Republican senate and president cave? If so, what top marginal rate would you support as a compromise?
Click to expand...

Do you know what the top marginal rate has been and how it got there?

To answer your question, no, I would not support it and would probably settle on a smaller increase....as the Republicans did earlier this year. Compromise, see how that works?
 
Thorgasm said:
Hold every bill hostage then. The voters will know who shut down the govt. They will know who still got paid when the government was shut down. They will vote accordingly.
Click to expand...

Why would they hold bills they have no issue with hostage? That's just silly.
 
Your Star said:
I don't know, I was 5 at the time so I'll have to take your word for it. :lol:
Click to expand...

Well, I was in the Navy at the time...and we lived through it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom