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Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

Is our civilisation pathetic?

  • Total voters
    51
joko104 said:
So this thread is just a European starting a thread to trash the United States. :coffeepap
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That's what I got but to be fair, after he said "**** the US" he did add in Europe as well :thinking
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Do you agree with the statement (above)?

What a ridiculous world, full of ridiculous countries, and their naive peoples.


Every single person on this planet is ready to embrace a world society that makes sense. A society where we all get along and cooperate, a society where no one starves, where no one suffers. Everyone is ready to live in and contribute to a society where people do not live under horrific conditions. Everyone is ready to embrace a society where we all cooperate for a better world. Everyone is ready to embrace a society which is well organised and stable with a model that doesn't look like its made by monkeys. Everyone is ready for a society without all the lies, the deceit, manipulation and corruption. Everyone is ready to embrace a free society rather than be jailed and restricted by their governments. Everyone is ready to be free and open their mind instead of being narrow minded and controlled. Everyone is ready to embrace a society where everyone else is good and kind. Everyone is ready to live on a clean and wonderful planet. Everyone is ready to embrace useful change. Everyone wants quality. Everyone is ready for a fair economic system that make sense. Everyone wants everyone else to smile. Everyone wants a world of joy. Everyone wants to be safe. Everyone wants to experience fantastic and great things. Everyone wants to breathe clean air, everyone wants to drink pure water, everyone wants to eat delicious food. We all want to be happy. Everyone wants to live on a planet where everyone else is happy. Everyone wants a planet where everyone have all these things. Everyone wants to have a just society.


But no. We have a society full of corruption, our planet is turning into a horrible hole, we are ruining the only place we have. We fight wars AGAINST OURSELVES. We lie, we manipulate, we are cruel to each others. We live on deception. Everyone is trapped in a society with massive brainwashing, where they have no ability to think for themselves any longer. We let the governments take all power and leave only an illusion to the people. Our society look like its organised by monkeys and savages. People starve, die of thirst and suffer every single minute. Our society is completely unstable so we choose not to cooperate and rather work against each others. For anyone who is awake and not an idiot, our society doesnt make sense at all. We poison our own food, we pollute our drinking water and soil, we empty the oceans, we live in really ugly cities. The government is hugging us so hard that they are suffocating us. Our rights are taken away day by day. We only care about profit. Everything we buy is low quality junk. Most people either steal from others as a criminal act or as a legal job, most people think only of them self. Most people say cruel things to others and try to create disharmony since they have no harmony themselves. We all feel bad.

So f*** the US, they are now the worst.
...and Europe, we are on the same slippery slope.

We step on the shoulders of the poor and suffering, we abuse other nations, we wage wars against them and kill their families, we poison their minds with unsound logic, we pretend we have democracy and stand and step on freedom and choice. We do most of the above things. We suck actually. We are immoral bastards.

So, aside from the crooks in the US and Europe, how is the rest of the world? A damn slave labour camp, and those who don't do that, they suffer and die every day, from starvation or thirst or just horrid general conditions.


This is ONE planet. We are ALL responsible to look at ourselves as ONE people. If someone from outside looked at this place, YOU would be considered one of those idiots on a planet with such a pathetic civilisation.

Personally I am deeply ashamed to be a human being, being part of such a pathetic civilisation among people who do such horrendous things. I feel deeply ashamed that we let the people suffer, starve and die when we can EASILY do something about it. I feel sorry for all the dumb-asses who believe we live in good and free societies. Its probably because you only have trash to compare with.


Take your head out of the sand and vote.
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So what would you propose we do to fix our ****ty world? Vote for who/what?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
No. Thats not true. If the few build the system of the many, then:
society = a few humans
humans = what the society makes them into
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Humans and society are in a feedback loop.

Society cannot control humans anymore than humans can control society.


Do you have any idea how much that sounds like the USSR of the bad old days? A few humans (politburo), determining what society is in order to control the rest of the humans.
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
You have no idea what I am talking about then. Just return the the OP and read it again!

Its not about me, its about everyones will. I simply say, the peoples will should be the future, not some insane monsters in Washington DC, Paris, Cairo, Bangkok or anywhere else. You my friend seem to be completely against a democracy of the people, for the people and by the people. What you want is for the few and awful to rule the many, in a tyrranical system full of traps, faults, manipulation, deception and whatever to force people to accept the system and belief whatever the system tells them.
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I understand what you're saying. I just totally disagree.
Think of it this way: Human beings are not like ants or bees. We're not programmed to work for the benefit of humanity, but for our own benefit. Moreover, since we're comparing ourselves to the animal kingdom, we have four general sorts of humans:
There are the sheep, who want someone to herd them around and take care of them. They're no into thinking for themselves.
Then there are the sheep dogs, who want to be able to herd others and control them. They like power for its own sake.
Then there are the squirrels, content to be free without having to either control or be controlled. They just want to go their own way and do their own thing.
Finally, there are the wolves, whose goal is to prey on the sheep and the squirrels.

and somehow, we need to all live together.

Maximus Zeebra said:
You need to jump out of that box again. Now you are just getting stuck in details and trying to win any argument you can. You fail to see the bigger picture and haven't been paying attention to what I have been saying. Its not about winning this discussion!

Try to see things in the grandest perspective you can, not the narrowest.
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I've been paying attention to what you're saying. I just think it's totally unrealistic.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Uuh, all my old friends have joined the thread with their constructive debating. How nice.
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You don't debate so there is nothing for me to debate against... you whine, complain, bitch and moan about the USA letting you down and being a dreg on the planet.
 
Harshaw said:
I do? From whence springs this notion?



And there you are right in line with the Communist Manifesto.
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From whence springs this notion.


You never asked me my full opinion. You judge by not even scratching the surface.
 
Monserrat said:
So what would you propose we do to fix our ****ty world? Vote for who/what?
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It's not a ****ty world, its a pathetic civilisation.

We need to build a civilisation that works, for everyone. I personally think everyone has to participate in that for it to be successfull.

I don't think dictates from a Washington DC or dictates from European capitals is the way to build a civilisation that works for everyone.
 
The Mark said:
Humans and society are in a feedback loop.
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That may be right. But think of it as the bottle hole, where the whole is so tiny that only the opinions of a very few gets through and hold back everyone else. I can imagine the genies that do get out of the bottle want to try to plug that whole entirely.


The Mark said:
Society cannot control humans anymore than humans can control society.
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A society ruled by the few is no different than any system in the past.

The Mark said:
Do you have any idea how much that sounds like the USSR of the bad old days? A few humans (politburo), determining what society is in order to control the rest of the humans.
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Yeah, I know. That is pretty much the society we live in today. And they throw games and keep the masses preoccupied (almost like slaves with no option) to be able to remain in control.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I understand what you're saying. I just totally disagree.
Think of it this way: Human beings are not like ants or bees. We're not programmed to work for the benefit of humanity, but for our own benefit. Moreover, since we're comparing ourselves to the animal kingdom, we have four general sorts of humans:
There are the sheep, who want someone to herd them around and take care of them. They're no into thinking for themselves.
Then there are the sheep dogs, who want to be able to herd others and control them. They like power for its own sake.
Then there are the squirrels, content to be free without having to either control or be controlled. They just want to go their own way and do their own thing.
Finally, there are the wolves, whose goal is to prey on the sheep and the squirrels.

and somehow, we need to all live together.
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I find this a very intersting anology. It is in many ways true.
But when the wolves are in control, and everyone is forced to be a sheep, then we do not have freedom.

I've been paying attention to what you're saying. I just think it's totally unrealistic.[/QUOTE]

Well. I don't even want to think how many people, groups of people and so fourth that have had this thought!

Imagine if black people were thinking like that in the US.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
. . .Every single person on this planet is ready to embrace a world society that makes sense. A society where we all get along and cooperate, a society where no one starves, where no one suffers. Everyone is ready to live in and contribute to a society where people do not live under horrific conditions. Everyone is ready to embrace a society where we all cooperate for a better world. . .
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HUH?!

Are you familiar with the "sensible," things that leaders in the Arab want to see happen to the Jews? What the Boko Haram terrorists want to see happen, and have made happen to Christian children? How women are expected to live in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and many parts of Africa? What can happen to someone who makes an offhand political statement in North Korea?

Our Society and those descended from Western and Northern Europe might be nuts, but they are among the least nutty to ever have existed. The proof of this is that you won't try to hunt me down and kill me for saying so.
 
Bodhisattva said:
You don't debate so there is nothing for me to debate against... you whine, complain, bitch and moan about the USA letting you down and being a dreg on the planet.
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Why are you here then? It takes only a click on the button to unsubscribe if your belief is that I do not debate.
I certainly do not debate like you, just to win an argument. And I don't attack other people to accomplish that goal.

So to be honest, if I remember our previous debates, it was I who tried to discuss things, and you who neither debated or discussed anything. You used cheap personal attacks and abused the integrity of logic to try to make any fallacy correct, by discussing irrelevant things, and thinking any little victory in discussing small details now irrelevant to the bigger point, would get grant you victory in the bigger debate, although not relevant to that at all.


I suggest you read that many times.
 
Oftencold said:
HUH?!

Are you familiar with the "sensible," things that leaders in the Arab want to see happen to the Jews? What the Boko Haram terrorists want to see happen, and have made happen to Christian children? How women are expected to live in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and many parts of Africa? What can happen to someone who makes an offhand political statement in North Korea?

Our Society and those descended from Western and Northern Europe might be nuts, but they are among the least nutty to ever have existed. The proof of this is that you won't try to hunt me down and kill me for saying so.
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Haha, what a wonderful ending indeed. That just means we are somewhat civilised!


I don't agree with your assesment of arabs. Afterall, it is only some of their leaders who want that, and they are the bad seed of the population, just like the leaders in the west are the bad seeds in their population. And this is everyones problem.

Most people in arab countries don't care about all that stuff at all. Most of them just want to live good lives! Most of them just want to be safe, live comfortable, have food and have freedom. But their leaders hold them back and force their society to do the bidding of their leaders. And I tell you, we have the exact same problems in the west!

So yes, we are the most civilised of the uncivilised. Congrats to us.

But I see your point, that also we are held back, because of those who are even less civilised than us. And that is a shame. And that is the reason I believe we can only get civilised as one planet, with one people. Not as silly nations with their own objectives working against each others.


I cannot say what the catalyst to such a big leap forward could be. But we do need to take a big leap, every nation, every person, to be able to prepare ourselves to become a well functioning planet.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Haha, what a wonderful ending indeed. That just means we are somewhat civilised!


I don't agree with your assesment of arabs. Afterall, it is only some of their leaders who want that, and they are the bad seed of the population, just like the leaders in the west are the bad seeds in their population. And this is everyones problem.

Most people in arab countries don't care about all that stuff at all. Most of them just want to live good lives! Most of them just want to be safe, live comfortable, have food and have freedom. But their leaders hold them back and force their society to do the bidding of their leaders. And I tell you, we have the exact same problems in the west!
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I don't agree with this, but I don't want to spin into yet another of my screeds against Islam. Suffice it to say that I see little evidence that this is true. (Look up "Um Nidal" to illustrate my point.)


Maximus Zeebra said:
So yes, we are the most civilised of the uncivilised. Congrats to us.
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It is something to be congratulated for. Were it easy, the reptiles would have done it. (I will slap, virtually of course, the very first Whovian who brings up the Silurians.)

Maximus Zeebra said:
But I see your point, that also we are held back, because of those who are even less civilised than us. And that is a shame. And that is the reason I believe we can only get civilised as one planet, with one people. Not as silly nations with their own objectives working against each others.


I cannot say what the catalyst to such a big leap forward could be. But we do need to take a big leap, every nation, every person, to be able to prepare ourselves to become a well functioning planet.
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We may have reached the pinnacle. Civilization is only ever one generation deep. Prosperous civilizations tend to soften their progeny which allows civilizations to decline. Prosperous civilizations tend to value luxury over things like duty, responsibility and sacrifice, and so decline.

The only model I've ever considered that I think could advance us significantly forward would be one in which only citizens willing to take on added responsibilities were allowed to wield significant electoral power. In short, only the people who pay taxes and have attained at least moderate level of education would be allowed to vote and thereby set policy.
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
It's not a ****ty world, its a pathetic civilisation.

We need to build a civilisation that works, for everyone. I personally think everyone has to participate in that for it to be successfull.

I don't think dictates from a Washington DC or dictates from European capitals is the way to build a civilisation that works for everyone.
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Your philosophy would be more acceptable to others, IF it was more positive and less negative.
Good reading for all...
"How to Make Friends and Influence People " by ???
I have this book....somewhere......too many moves...
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I find this a very intersting anology. It is in many ways true.
But when the wolves are in control, and everyone is forced to be a sheep, then we do not have freedom.
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Finally, a statement I can agree with completely.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Well. I don't even want to think how many people, groups of people and so fourth that have had this thought!

Imagine if black people were thinking like that in the US.
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The thought that what you're saying is totally unrealistic? Yes, I'm quite sure that most people, black, white or something else, have had that thought.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Why are you here then? It takes only a click on the button to unsubscribe if your belief is that I do not debate.
I certainly do not debate like you, just to win an argument. And I don't attack other people to accomplish that goal.

So to be honest, if I remember our previous debates, it was I who tried to discuss things, and you who neither debated or discussed anything. You used cheap personal attacks and abused the integrity of logic to try to make any fallacy correct, by discussing irrelevant things, and thinking any little victory in discussing small details now irrelevant to the bigger point, would get grant you victory in the bigger debate, although not relevant to that at all.


I suggest you read that many times.
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You just proved my ... I win.

You bash the USA and try to justify your complaints by insisting that you are discussing things to make it better when all yo uare areally doing is just bashing Americans for being American.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
That may be right. But think of it as the bottle hole, where the whole is so tiny that only the opinions of a very few gets through and hold back everyone else. I can imagine the genies that do get out of the bottle want to try to plug that whole entirely.
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I meant that, in a sense, what society does changes humans, and what humans do changes society. They're one and the same, yet somehow separate. Or something.
Bah.

Maximus Zeebra said:
A society ruled by the few is no different than any system in the past.
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One of us is confused as to what the word "society" means. When I read it, I think "bunch of people living in under the same system", but....

Anyways...There are many different types of "societies" that were/are "ruled by the few". The differences may be small, but they are differences.



Maximus Zeebra said:
Yeah, I know. That is pretty much the society we live in today. And they throw games and keep the masses preoccupied (almost like slaves with no option) to be able to remain in control.
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Only because we let them.

The trouble is, we will.
 
The Mark said:
I meant that, in a sense, what society does changes humans, and what humans do changes society. They're one and the same, yet somehow separate. Or something.
Bah.
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Societies are what humans make them... societies don't change humans, humans running societies change humans.

One of us is confused as to what the word "society" means. When I read it, I think "bunch of people living in under the same system", but....
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There you go... :)
 
Bodhisattva said:
Societies are what humans make them... societies don't change humans, humans running societies change humans.



There you go... :)
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Yeah, but....

I kinda have this idea of "society" as also meaning "the interactions between everyone in said society", which then means that the humans in a society change that society, and the society changes them. Perhaps I'm using the wrong word....
 
The Mark said:
Yeah, but....

I kinda have this idea of "society" as also meaning "the interactions between everyone in said society", which then means that the humans in a society change that society, and the society changes them. Perhaps I'm using the wrong word....
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No. I hear what you are saying... I was mostly messing with you because the concepts are almost one and the same. Humans make society. Society consists of humans. Which affects the other or is it simultaneously one and the same? :lol:
 
Oh for ****s sake... not this guy again.
 
Bodhisattva said:
No. I hear what you are saying... I was mostly messing with you because the concepts are almost one and the same. Humans make society. Society consists of humans. Which affects the other or is it simultaneously one and the same? :lol:
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That's basically what I was trying to say to MZ (I made his name an acronym because I am lazy).

Society does not control humans anymore than humans control society, because the two are one and the same, or at the least, 2 slightly different things in an unbreakable feedback loop.

Even if you think you're not part of "the rest of them", you are. Everyone is.

Even if you're some hermit-like monk living in some extremely secluded location, you're still part of the overall "human" society - just not a well known part of it...


Or...something like that...
 
The Mark said:
Not really. I was thinking that I'D go insane if I knew someone was watching me all the time.
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For years all of my telephone calls were taped. I did not really mind at all. Au contraire. I always thought it good, because any problems could be cleared up immediately.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Finally, a statement I can agree with completely.



The thought that what you're saying is totally unrealistic? Yes, I'm quite sure that most people, black, white or something else, have had that thought.
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I think you know that comment was in regards to blacks fighting for their rights in the US instead of giving up and thinking it would be unrealistic to have their rights. They could have thought like that, but no matter how unrealistic it was, they eventually won.
 
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