• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Does Anyone Still Believe ANYTHING Obama says?

Does anyone still believe Obama?

  • Total voters
    38
Ikari said:
Not if you ain't got a better plan.
Click to expand...

Your argument is taking sovereignty to an absolute in justifying chemical genocide. I'm not sure where'd you like to go but any plan is better.
 
LoneLaugher said:
I accept nutter bull**** under protest. But you are asking me to accept bull**** while not even attempting to answer the question.

Just answer it. The answer ought to be in numerical form.
Click to expand...

Your foully formed demand is not something I personally will accede to, try to boss someone else around. Seems that maybe when those who don't take their Flintstones vitamins and get a cookie afterwards, they must get cranky.

The number? 2many, way too many. These will give you the reasons why:

Welfare and work: Taxing hard-up Americans at 95% | The Economist

Study: welfare pays more than work in most states | The Daily Caller

On Labor Day 2013, Welfare Pays More Than Minimum-Wage Work In 35 States - Forbes

If one cannot understand those, probably plenty of able adult Americans with nothing much better to and could maybe help one understand.
 
ecofarm said:
Ones inability to see globalization does not remove it from existence. There are many kinds of implications for the US.

Your argument is like some guy hearing his neighbor being beaten brutally by her spouse and saying 'hey, not my business'. Your argument is the guy who lets bad things happen if he can get away. Your argument is selfish, childish, cowardly and ugly. It shows a disregard for mankind and entitlement mindset beyond recognition.

Chemical genocide is not ok, not while free people have the power to stop it.
Click to expand...

I understand some people think everything is their business, and that everything effects them. They are wrong, but I understand they are deluded in such a fashion.
 
Arbo said:
I understand some people think everything is their business, and that everything effects them. They are wrong, but I understand they are deluded in such a fashion.
Click to expand...

The delusion is of the 'head in sand' variety and not 'how can I help' variety, given chemical genocide.
 
ecofarm said:
The delusion is of the 'head in sand' variety and not 'how can I help' variety, given chemical genocide.
Click to expand...

What are the reports, 14K people, that MIGHT have been killed by chemicals by the Syrian government? We throw in tomahawks, we will kill far more civilians.

And again, I have seen nothing that supports that this is our problem. The UN had a treaty against chemical weapons? Syria is not a signatory on that.

Would it be 'nice' if we could rid the world of evil? Sure. But we can not, nor is it our job. If we go in with just bombs, they will simply wait out the bombing, then resume business as usual. All we will have accomplished was to waste millions in missiles fired at them. And of course the risk of them or Iran actually acting on their threats and going after Israel. If we want to 'secure' the chemical weapons so they can not use them, we need boots on the ground, that is an invasion, that without approval of the congress is unConstitutional, and without the approval of the UN, is against 'international law'.
 
Arbo said:
What are the reports, 14K people, that MIGHT have been killed by chemicals by the Syrian government? We throw in tomahawks, we will kill far more civilians.

And again, I have seen nothing that supports that this is our problem. The UN had a treaty against chemical weapons? Syria is not a signatory on that.

Would it be 'nice' if we could rid the world of evil? Sure. But we can not, nor is it our job. If we go in with just bombs, they will simply wait out the bombing, then resume business as usual. All we will have accomplished was to waste millions in missiles fired at them. And of course the risk of them or Iran actually acting on their threats and going after Israel. If we want to 'secure' the chemical weapons so they can not use them, we need boots on the ground, that is an invasion, that without approval of the congress is unConstitutional, and without the approval of the UN, is against 'international law'.
Click to expand...

One politician asked "What would victory look like?", and that is the key. If no one knows the answer it's best to back off.
 
ecofarm said:
Your argument is taking sovereignty to an absolute in justifying chemical genocide. I'm not sure where'd you like to go but any plan is better.
Click to expand...

Not one that costs trillions of dollars, kills thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of others over the decade plus the war goes on for. That's just stupid.

Think of how many starving kids you could have saved with a trillion dollars instead of using it to kill.
 
Ikari said:
Not one that costs trillions of dollars, kills thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of others over the decade plus the war goes on for. That's just stupid.

Think of how many starving kids you could have saved with a trillion dollars instead of using it to kill.
Click to expand...

A billion dollars a the onset of Saddam's reign might be worth a trillion. And now we opt to pay symptoms instead of sources again?
 
ecofarm said:
A billion dollars a the onset of Saddam's reign might be worth a trillion. And now we opt to pay symptoms instead of sources again?
Click to expand...

You probably could have bought Saddam off for a billion or so, got him to abdicate and move to some private island somewhere. But that's neither here nor there. We've spent trillions on a foreign, imperial, occupation war that has not panned out any success in the over 10 years we've been waging it. And your plan is to do it all over again. It's absurd.
 
Ikari said:
You probably could have bought Saddam off for a billion or so,
Click to expand...

We tried. He spent it on genocide, institutional rape and a fake WMD program.
 
ecofarm said:
We tried. He spent it on genocide, institutional rape and a fake WMD program.
Click to expand...

Well probably should have had a better negotiator. Abdication wouldn't have allowed him to do so. But as I said that's neither here nor there. We've spent trillions on a foreign, imperial, occupation war that has not panned out any success in the over 10 years we've been waging it. And your plan is to do it all over again. It's absurd.
 
ecofarm said:
You're right, it couldn't be the hostage-taker's fault.
Click to expand...

Again neither here nor there. We've spent trillions on a foreign, imperial, occupation war that has not panned out any success in the over 10 years we've been waging it. And your plan is to do it all over again. It's absurd.
 
ecofarm said:
You're making that argument.
Click to expand...

No, I'm making the argument that your "kill them all and let god sort them out" solution hasn't worked and thus engaging in it again is absurd.
 
Ikari said:
No, I'm making the argument that your "kill them all and let god sort them out" solution hasn't worked and thus engaging in it again is absurd.
Click to expand...

You're operating from an hysterical premise. Tell us, what are your true fears regarding Syria.
 
ecofarm said:
You're operating from an hysterical premise. Tell us, what are your true fears regarding Syria.
Click to expand...

Getting involved in another 10+ year occupation costing thousands of American lives, trillions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of lives of civilians and other people of the area.
 
ChezC3 said:
Oh me oh my, ...:lamo

The gymnastics you kids go through to look yourselves in the mirrors...

there is nothing outside the text...

Nuance schmuance...
Click to expand...

Arbo said:
There is nothing to interpret. He said HE did not put down a red line. A year ago, he did. Thus, he lied.

It must be so frustrating for modern day politicians, that whole video tape thing.
Click to expand...

If you can actually look at the transcripts side by side and fail to see the reference to international law and precedent as reasoning for his red line statement, I really don't know what to tell ya. I'll give you both some credit and assume you're being purposefully obtuse, rather than plain ole' dense.
 
Ikari said:
Getting involved in another 10+ year occupation costing thousands of American lives, trillions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of lives of civilians and other people of the area.
Click to expand...

Hundreds of thousands of civilians will continue to die unless we put a stop to chemical genocide.
 
ecofarm said:
Hundreds of thousands of civilians will continue to die unless we put a stop to chemical genocide.
Click to expand...

So Syria kills them or we do. Doesn't really seem to be netting out anything here.
 
Ikari said:
So Syria kills them or we do. Doesn't really seem to be netting out anything here.
Click to expand...

We should kill those intent on chemical genocide to sustain atrocious dictatorship.
 
ecofarm said:
We should kill those intent on chemical genocide to sustain atrocious dictatorship.
Click to expand...

And all the people in the surrounding neighborhoods, and destabilize the region to make it rife with crime and terrorism, etc.

Again...not netting out anything here. Less you goal is to inflict as much pain, suffering, and death to as many people as you possibly can. In that case, you have a winning recipe.
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
Genocidal dictatorship is not stable.
Click to expand...

You prefer fragmenting bombs. There have already been over 100K killed in this conflict, and we had no concerns over that. All conflict in the ME come down to Sunni vs Shia. I don't think we will be able to change that with a few cruise missiles...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom