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do you believe god exists ?

does god exist ?

  • Total voters
    93
I believe there is something that could be considered "the divine", or something supernatural of sorts. I think the various "Gods" humanity have created over the years are simply the attempts of our mortal minds to comprehend and explain, in the limited fashion they would be able to, that energy. Whether or not it's true is of little concern to me, as it's entirely a personal view on it and not one I seek to convince others of and I realize it's something that is completely unprovable either way.
 
Medusa said:
my adventure of questioning this universe and its secrets is a neverending story for me as long as l live

not every believer is uneducated bigot
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I didn't say anything about uneducated or bigotry. I said that we should rely on what we know, rather than what we might believe. I mean, we actually do that, for pretty much everything except god. And everybody but the seriously religious do that for god, too. But, because what we know points to there not being a god far more than it points to there being one, religious people declare that god is exempt from this. Don't fall for that trap. Don't believe. Know! Keep questioning the universe and its secrets, but do something with the answers to those questions. Use that knowledge to reach your conclusions. Don't fall back on belief when you could use information and reason instead.
 
TiredOfLife said:
Breaking news, this is all there is, there's almost no chance of anything else. On the other hand, no Heaven means no Hell.
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True. I'm cool with sacrificing a heaven if it means people don't go to a hell.
 
Mr X said:
True. I'm cool with sacrificing a heaven if it means people don't go to a hell.
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I've never been sure heaven even appealed to me. I'm not big on perfect. :shrug:
 
ChrisL said:
You should probably search a little more than just Wiki. Wiki doesn't always have good information. If you just google Chaos Magic and witchcraft, you will see that this is a theory that witches of today do apply. It IS a pagan belief. It doesn't really have anything to do with God. :) I don't know what would make you think that there aren't modern witches and pagans.

Witch/Pagan Resources - The Principles of Chaos Magic
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I think you misunderstood my meaning and I use wiki as a basic link for starting information (it's very good as a starting point) which I posted for you for more information, I have books on the topic. I said it depends on whether or not it's pagan because the term pagan is all encompassing. For some people it means any belief system that isn't christian, or any belief system that isn't from the Abrahamic faiths. Others define it as solely earth based belief systems, which it doesn't fit that definition too well unless the practitioner has taken on that form of paradigm.

It has to do with whatever God or Gods or Goddesses they are taking on in their shifting paradigms.

I don't know what would make you think that I don't think there are modern witches and pagans.
 
Medusa said:
l didnt ask " do you know god exists "

l asked " do you believe "
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No you didn't. You asked if gods exist, not whether or not one believes gods exist. No one can know if gods exist, maybe but it doesn't seem so likely.
 
Navy Pride said:
It would be a very sad world if there was no God. To think that this life is all there is.
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I think this encapsulates the difficulty people have with coming to terms with the possibility of a Universe that is absent God and functions on an entirely natural basis. Too many atheists I think either shield themselves from this point or neglect to bring it up. At the end of the day death is terrifying and infinitely moreso if you do not believe there is an afterlife or a God to give hope to its continuance or its purpose. Beyond mere mortality the notion that you are inescapably alone in the Universe is equally scary.

There are no good answers for how to confront these issues. However it doesn't mean that this admittedly more frightening reality isn't true. Just because it would be a happier existence with a loving God and an afterlife does not mean there is one.

I've spent a long time coming to terms with that and I personally do not think there is a God or a broader metaphysical reason for our existence.

But it doesn't mean that is a happier realization and it doesn't obviate the fact that belief and the security of faith is at least superficially more emotionally protective.
 
When this subject comes up I think back to Katrina. There were hundreds of heavily faithful people waiting for somekind of help praying and it did not come and they were killed.

I also think of his representative on Earth, self-appointed I know but, and if God does nothing to help him, then how could he exist.

I see the Katrina thing as proof that there is no God watching and judging.

It just doesn't make sense to me the people that survive something like Katrina and then thank God for saving their lives or for not completely destroying everything they had, just most of it.
 
Monserrat said:
I think you misunderstood my meaning and I use wiki as a basic link for starting information (it's very good as a starting point) which I posted for you for more information, I have books on the topic. I said it depends on whether or not it's pagan because the term pagan is all encompassing. For some people it means any belief system that isn't christian, or any belief system that isn't from the Abrahamic faiths. Others define it as solely earth based belief systems, which it doesn't fit that definition too well unless the practitioner has taken on that form of paradigm.

It has to do with whatever God or Gods or Goddesses they are taking on in their shifting paradigms.

I don't know what would make you think that I don't think there are modern witches and pagans.
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Well, this part of your quote that I put in bold kind of sounds like you are saying that. Also, I don't think God really plays a factor in this belief. Or at least not "the god" to which Medusa is referring. Perhaps multiple pagan gods. It has a lot to do with spells and magic.

Monserrat said:
:shrug: It's a modern magic form, so I suppose it depends of your definition of pagan and witchcraft but that's besides the point, the point is there's at least one belief system that involves switching belief systems.

"Some common sources of inspiration include such diverse areas as science fiction, scientific theories, traditional ceremonial magic, neoshamanism, Eastern philosophy, world religions, and individual experimentation. Despite tremendous individual variation, chaos magicians (sometimes called "chaotes"[2]) often work with chaotic and humorous paradigms, such as the worship of Hundun from Taoism or Eris from Discordianism, and it is common for chaotes to believe in whatever god suits their current paradigm and discard it when necessary."

Chaos magic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Sherman123 said:
I think this encapsulates the difficulty people have with coming to terms with the possibility of a Universe that is absent God and functions on an entirely natural basis. Too many atheists I think either shield themselves from this point or neglect to bring it up. At the end of the day death is terrifying and infinitely moreso if you do not believe there is an afterlife or a God to give hope to its continuance or its purpose. Beyond mere mortality the notion that you are inescapably alone in the Universe is equally scary.

There are no good answers for how to confront these issues. However it doesn't mean that this admittedly more frightening reality isn't true. Just because it would be a happier existence with a loving God and an afterlife does not mean there is one.

I've spent a long time coming to terms with that and I personally do not think there is a God or a broader metaphysical reason for our existence.

But it doesn't mean that is a happier realization and it doesn't obviate the fact that belief and the security of faith is at least superficially more emotionally protective.
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Even if I wanted the peace of mind that belief in a god or an afterlife purports to deliver, belief or non belief is not a choice I can make consciously. There is no way to will myself into belief, it is either substantiated and my mind accepts the substantiation, or it is unsubstantiated and my mind rejects the belief on these grounds (and none of the "look all around you" arguments from incredulity - that horse pill of fallacious reasoning does not fit down this throat).

If not being able to force a particular belief and coming to terms with what appears to be the finality of life is what you consider to be shielding, then so be it - I have no choice in the matter, I have to deal with it, and I am quite accepting of it. Although I do not want to cease to exist any time soon, I find the prospect of living for an eternity to be infinitely more scary. How monotonous that would be. first 10k years, hmmm probably not all that bad, first 100,000 years and this perpetual ecstasy would start to lose its novelty, a billion years!? no freaking way, a billion billion years and still an eternity ahead with no way out? no thank you.
 
marduc said:
Even if I wanted the peace of mind that belief in a god or an afterlife purports to deliver, belief or non belief is not a choice I can make consciously. There is no way to will myself into belief, it is either substantiated and my mind accepts the substantiation, or it is unsubstantiated and my mind rejects the belief on these grounds (and none of the "look all around you" arguments from incredulity - that horse pill of fallacious reasoning does not fit down this throat).

If not being able to force a particular belief and coming to terms with what appears to be the finality of life is what you consider to be shielding, then so be it - I have no choice in the matter, I have to deal with it, and I am quite accepting of it. Although I do not want to cease to exist any time soon, I find the prospect of living for an eternity to be infinitely more scary. How monotonous that would be. first 10k years, hmmm probably not all that bad, first 100,000 years and this perpetual ecstasy would start to lose its novelty, a billion years!? no freaking way, a billion billion years and still an eternity ahead with no way out? no thank you.
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Sure and I'm definitely not claiming there is a way to will yourself into belief. Believe me I tried! What I'm trying to say is that I think people underestimate both how inextricably linked religion and even a very intangible faith can be to someones life and how powerful a psychological defense mechanism against abandoning that kind of emotional and existential security can be. This isn't even about the fundamentalist or the deeply religious, I'm talking about everyone from your faintly religious Christian to your reform Jew. You'll be confronted with "Oh but there has to be something!" Why? Because the alternative is understandably frightening.

I agree you cannot close Pandora's box, but it doesn't mean the box isn't hard to open in the first place and with good reason.

Edit: Though I do fundamentally disagree on the idea of living indefinitely. I do desire to live as long as I desire, I think death is the greatest tragedy in existence and we rationalize it's purpose to comfort ourselves. I'm a big advocate of transhumanist trends in technology and I'd love to avail myself of it's benefits one day. It's also why I'm keen on cryonics.
 
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Ikari said:
No you didn't. You asked if gods exist, not whether or not one believes gods exist. No one can know if gods exist, maybe but it doesn't seem so likely.
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How? How is it impossible to know? What if Thor walked down the street and stopped to have a chat with you, and then threw lightning around and flew away to slay a frost giant a few blocks over. It would be a trivial thing for a god to reveal themself to us, so why can't we know? And how would we know that we can't know? I understand that we can't logically rule out gods completely, but we could certainly find them if they were there and had any interest in making themselves know.

Sherman123 said:
I think this encapsulates the difficulty people have with coming to terms with the possibility of a Universe that is absent God and functions on an entirely natural basis. Too many atheists I think either shield themselves from this point or neglect to bring it up. At the end of the day death is terrifying and infinitely moreso if you do not believe there is an afterlife or a God to give hope to its continuance or its purpose. Beyond mere mortality the notion that you are inescapably alone in the Universe is equally scary.
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Not really, no. Being temporary and only around for a century or so isn't really that scary unless you're wasting your life and not living it to the fullest. Or if someone convinced you as a child that there was more and you feel like it's being taken away, even thought it was never really there. Death isn't scary at all to me, and immortality sounds awful. And the universe having some kind of purpose that I don't really have a choice about, that seems worse. That means I'm just a cog in a machine that I don't even understand. That means my hopes, my dreams, my ambitions, my feelings, none of them matter. The only way to really be free or to matter at all is for the universe to just be here, and what effects I have on it are up to me and me alone.

Also, we're probably not alone in the universe. There are probably other lifeforms out there somewhere.
 
Paschendale said:
How? How is it impossible to know? What if Thor walked down the street and stopped to have a chat with you, and then threw lightning around and flew away to slay a frost giant a few blocks over. It would be a trivial thing for a god to reveal themself to us, so why can't we know? And how would we know that we can't know? I understand that we can't logically rule out gods completely, but we could certainly find them if they were there and had any interest in making themselves know.
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Gods are defined as immeasurable quantities, if something is immeasurable knowledge about its existence cannot be had.

If anything you listed above ever happens, let me know. Otherwise, there is no direct measurement and thus you cannot have knowledge.
 
Navy Pride said:
It would be a very sad world if there was no God. To think that this life is all there is.
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Why? If there's no god, then human suffering isn't caused by an omnipotent force that is too lazy to be bothered to help us or is "testing" us, but rather something we may be able to solve. No God means the possibility of less human suffering.
 
I don't know how to 'vote' on this poll. As soon a definition of God or god is omitted I don't know which God or god or gods I'm voting on.
There have been some very salient and interesting posts however.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Your point is?
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Just curious. Having thought you were a Christian when you refered to the abyss I reference as fascinating .... I thought maybe I was mistaken. I would have expected you to argue that there is no abyss.
 
opendebate said:
Just curious. Having thought you were a Christian when you refered to the abyss I reference as fascinating .... I thought maybe I was mistaken. I would have expected you to argue that there is no abyss.
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I'm not a church going bible thumper Christian, I just follow basic Christian tenants. If I was born elsewhere I might follow basic Buddhist tenants but in reality all these good religions basically say the same thing. Unfortunately men tend to corrupt the s*** out of all of them.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I'm not a church going bible thumper Christian, I just follow basic Christian tenants. If I was born elsewhere I might follow basic Buddhist tenants but in reality all these good religions basically say the same thing. Unfortunately men tend to corrupt the s*** out of all of them.
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That is a sad truth.
 
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