• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

What is the reason that we see less and less Traditional Family Structure?

  • Affirmative Action Opened All the Right Doors...

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Girls Just Wanna Have Fun!

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • It is extremely complex issue...

    Votes: 30 85.7%

  • Total voters
    35
Status
Not open for further replies.
rivrrat
I don't seem that "open" about what, exactly?

About most of the things that I am talking about... ;)

And yes, if someone says something in a conversation that pisses me off, I address *that* immediately.

What a negative way to engage in a conversation.

I didn't have anything else to say to you regarding the rest of your last post, except the absolute arrogance and assuming attitude you took towards me.

LOL! So wait.. you go off on me. I respond. In the next few posts I try to get you to be open. You continue to be hostile. I say "Whatever" Haha...and I am being "arrogant". I am just talking about the way that it is... don't be so defensive... lighten up.

See, you insult me and I don't sweat it. I just think that this is "us" getting to know each other. You get all bothered and won't let up. That is your choice. I suggest that you get with the program...and that is called "Adult Communication 101". I will be your professor. Lessons have already begun.

Basically, you told me to get out of the thread because I didn't have kids of my own.

I indicated NOTHING of the sort. Talk about "assuming" :roll:

The thread isn't just about currently having kids, but about the choices that women make in their lives regarding their families. With all due respect, being a woman in her 30s (which was targeted by the OP), I think I have every reason to be participating in this thread.

Correct. Stop attacking what you don't understand though. Relax. Remember...YOU are entering this debate with your "assumption" hat on, not me. I am not sure what you are so angry about...still. I like what you have to say, it is just that you seem blinded with "having to prove something".

Dang, I don't care about your choices...I already said that. I did lots of **** that was not good for a parent ot do...once I became a parent I stopped.

I say that you, "Sounds good. Not sure what your gripe is then. Sounds like you have a lot of this figured out. If I don't understand your situation, that is because I don't know what it is. Try not to take this personally. " yet you continue to be rude and attack.

And, just by being a woman in our society, I also have reason to be participating in this thread.

True.

If you don't like what I have to say and wish to just dismiss it, then do so by not responding to my posts.

I could just say "you are a hypocrite" and be done with you, but I won't. See, I am far more open than you would be willing to admit. :2razz:

But don't sit there and tell me that my opinions about women and families are not valid.

Your opinions are valid...I think that I said that a number of times...
But you are not a parent, so I will listen and realize that simple fact.
Cool? Cool!

OP BodiSatva
What is this invisible factor that is leading us down a path of single people, single mothers (voluntary ones at least), dead-beat fathers, etc.? What is it? Why are we seeing less married people and broken or disjointed families more and more?

Yes, this is an extension of the last thread, so for all of you that can't fathom reality to save your life, this should be fun.

So...where does it say, "The thread (is) just about (those) currently having kids"?

You are right...it doesn't.

More importantly...Where have I ever said that it was? hmmmm...?

I did ask...

1. What is this invisible factor that is leading us down a path of single people, single mothers (voluntary ones at least), dead-beat fathers, etc.? .

YOUR ANSWER

rivrrat
Yeah, I guess it is selfish of me to want to enjoy my life and do the things I want to do... to travel to the places I want to travel to... to experience all the things I want to experience. It is after all MY life, why shouldn't I try to enjoy it? Why should I sacrifice everything I want just so I can be molded into what someone else thinks I should be? Yeah, I guess it is selfish... but you know what?

I really don't give a flying hoot if someone thinks it's selfish.

It's my life and I'll do with it what I want.


2. Why are we seeing less married people and broken or disjointed families more and more?

YOUR ANSWER

No answer from you on that question. You are just stuck on being selfish and trying to justify it IMO. :2razz:

Why not stick tot the actual questions from this moment forward? Yeah, that sounds good to me too!
 
You are just stuck on being selfish and trying to justify it IMO.

Well, now that we've all psychoanalyzed one another to a frazzle, it appears we're some justifying motherfvckers around here.
In this corner, we've got Rivrrat, attempting to "justify" her selfish life of a swingin' single chick.
In that corner, we've got 1069, "justifying" neglecting her kids by working outside her home.
Over here we've got Stace, attempting to "justify" why her lazy arse doesn't go out and get a job.
Over there, we've got Mikhail, "justifying" his obsession with phone sex.
Over here, the Cap'n, "justifying" his selfishly childless state.
Over there, we've got Tallou, trying to justify being a "stay-at-home mom" to children who are in school all day.
Over there, Botisatva, justifying his voyeuristic passion for poking his prurient shnozz into everybody else's bidness, not to mention his curious relationship with the sycophantic Johnny Utah.

Boy, I sure am glad we engaged in this orgy of self-justification.
I feel justified.
How about y'all? Do you feel justified?
 
Well, now that we've all psychoanalyzed one another to a frazzle, it appears we're some justifying motherfvckers around here.
In this corner, we've got Rivrrat, attempting to "justify" her selfish life of a swingin' single chick.
In that corner, we've got 1069, "justifying" neglecting her kids by working outside her home.
Over here we've got Stace, attempting to "justify" why her lazy arse doesn't go out and get a job.
Over there, we've got Mikhail, "justifying" his obsession with phone sex.
Over here, the Cap'n, "justifying" his selfishly childless state.
Over there, we've got Tallou, trying to justify being a "stay-at-home mom" to children who are in school all day.
Over there, Botisatva, justifying his voyeuristic passion for poking his prurient shnozz into everybody else's bidness, not to mention his curious relationship with the sycophantic Johnny Utah.

Boy, I sure am glad we engaged in this orgy of self-justification.
I feel justified.
How about y'all? Do you feel justified?
this just might be the most disgusting post i have read on DP
I will take the time to read the thread in the hopes this is a farcicle post
but i doubt it, given who posted it
 
Because my daddy never hugged me
Because my daddy never hugged me
Because my daddy never hugged me
Because my daddy never hugged me

Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Because I am compensating for my shortcomings

Above, Deejay attempts, unsuccessfully, to justify his existence.

this just might be the most disgusting post i have read on DP

I've read an even more disgusting one.
Wanna hear it?

"and yet it is the likes of you that are so irresponsible
so hot for an orgasm they do not care about the fact that another life is affected by their actions... try swallowing
you cant get pregnant that way, last i heard
either that or take it in the ***
there is more to life than getting your rocks off...LIFE is life
whether it is an innocent fetus, or some cum glutton gutter slut..."


~ Cordially brought to you by DeejayH.

link
 
Originally Posted by DeeJayH
Because my daddy never hugged me
Because my daddy never hugged me
Because my daddy never hugged me
Because my daddy never hugged me

Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Because I am compensating for my shortcomings
Above, Deejay attempts, unsuccessfully, to justify his existence.

jane you ignorant slut ( i guess from your previous ignorance, i should point out, this line is from Saturday Night Live)
that is from a commercial
here is :twocents: buy yourself a clue

No, that is not "all".
There is nothing "beneficial" to families, to children, to society, or to women themselves about women recusing themselves from contributing to the broader world of work and society and remaining unemployed.
Most are not doing it by "choice" anyway, but for lack of state and federally-funded benefits and basic support services for working parents, which every other civilized nation in the world provides.
Other nations recognize the value of women's contributions- beyond their biological functions, their ability to produce and nurture offspring, which they have always done and will always continue to do, regardless.

Further, most mothers work, and this is also not a "choice" for very many of them, and there is nothing "beneficial" about social attitudes which suggest that they are failures rather than successes for working and raising children at the same time, or that children, families, or society in general would be better served if they just went away, or that they can best "contribute" by staying at home unemployed.

It's bullshit. It's misogyny.
I urge women to reject it.
if you think the state owes you for having kids
why dont you just give your kids to the state to raise them for you
so you can continue on your own selfish life
while those responsible for your children coming into the world, the state, can care for them
+
you and those like you are exactly why the world, with all the advances in technology it has made, is falling apart
 
Gosh, Deej... if you weren't already on the opposing side, I'd pay you to join it.
With allies like you, who needs credibility?

;)
 
Gosh, Deej... if you weren't already on the opposing side, I'd pay you to join it.
With allies like you, who needs credibility?

;)
dont worry
when it comes to family values
you have NONE
 
wow the hostility on this thread
 
Moderator's Warning:
DeeJayH and 1069. Stop the attacks towards each other. If you want to continue this take it to the Basement.


*Edit*

Moderator's Warning:
Didn't see the most recent attacks. The next one gets permenantly booted from the thread.
 
I apologize, Cap'n (and anybody else who was offended), but I'm tired of hearing
people accuse one another of trying to "justify" their lives.
Nobody needs to "justify" jackshite, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm sure everyone is doing as they see fit, and that's all the "justification" that's necessary.
People need to quit judging, is what they need to do.
If they were truly so deliriously happy with their own lives and choices, I doubt they'd be expending so much time and energy on judging the lives of others.
 
I apologize, Cap'n (and anybody else who was offended), but I'm tired of hearing
people accuse one another of trying to "justify" their lives.
Nobody needs to "justify" jackshite, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm sure everyone is doing as they see fit, and that's all the "justification" that's necessary.
People need to quit judging, is what they need to do.
If they were truly so deliriously happy with their own lives and choices, I doubt they'd be expending so much time and energy on judging the lives of others.

Thank you 1069. You know, in general, I don't see any bad people here. I see people that live their lives in a variety of ways. No one better, no one worse. Just different. In my experience, judging another often occurs through the need to justify one's own decisions. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, just challenging you all to ask yourself this question: 'If I am happy with the choices I've made, and choices others have made are equally positive (for then) and harm no one, yet are different, then why do I feel a need to judge them?' Not directed at anyone, and I don't require an answer. Just some food for thought.
 
Over here we've got Stace, attempting to "justify" why her lazy arse doesn't go out and get a job.

You know what? I DON'T need to justify myself to you, but my boy is asleep and my husband's at work, so though I could certainly find other things to do, I'm sick of you putting down me and what I do, so I will.

You think I just sit on my butt all day? Hardly. My son and I are up no later than 9 every morning, depending on what kind of night he had. He's teething right now, so he's got his good nights where he sleeps all the way through, and his bad nights where he whimpers in his sleep and then wakes up full out crying and requires comforting from me. He is still exclusively breastfed, and nursed on demand, so that takes up quite a bit of my day. We spend a lot of our day playing - right now we're working on getting him to sit up all by himself for longer periods, and he's doing real well with grasping objects and actually manipulating them to where he wants them. He hasn't quite got the hang of rolling over yet, but he's not overly fond of tummy time. He'll get there eventually, though.

And when he's content to sit and play by himself, I'm cleaning. We're going to be moving in a few months, so I'm going through everything and figuring out what to do with the things that we don't want or need anymore. Some things just get tossed, but other things are worth at least a little money, so I spend time either posting them on eBay or on my forum for local mothers. I've got to vacuum at least every other day or so, because we have two cats and I don't want Noah to end up choking on cat hair or something. And let's not forget the amount of laundry that a baby generates!

And when he's napping, or playing with his daddy, I'm still doing things to take care of my family, whether it be taking care of the finances, or cooking dinner, or out running errands.

But hey, I make sure to take time out for myself, too. I have a website of my own to keep up with and I'm in the middle of redesigning that. I have a small business that I run off of it....it hasn't generated much income yet, but I'm not looking to make a fortune off of it. Vauge is kind enough to have a small advertisement here on this forum for me. I've also taken up sewing as a hobby, and once I get a little more confident in what I'm doing, I have hopes of selling a few of my creations - mainly custom sheets for Pack N Plays, and maybe for cribs if I can become proficient with working with the elastic.

I also have a few other endeavors that bring in a little cash now and then. Again, it's not much, but at least I contribute a little money to our household...if nothing else, at least enough for us to have a fun treat every now and then.

You know why I stay home with my son, rather than slave away at some job for 8+ hours a day? Because my son is the highest priority in my life. I worked steadily from age 15 right up until I got out of the military in late 2005. After I separated from the Air Force, we moved out here to Charlotte, and I WAS looking for employment. But then we found out that I was pregnant, and though I would have willingly worked at least through my pregnancy, it just wasn't meant to be, and my husband and I realized that I was MEANT to be at home. I BELONG here with my son, teaching him things, playing with him, comforting him, and providing him with love and security. Sure, money's tight just on my husband's police salary, but we make do. And we don't take a dime from the government - no welfare, no WIC, none of that. We've made a lot of sacrifices...but we WANTED to. We had always agreed that as long as we could manage it financially, I would stay home with our children. It's what we BOTH want for our family.

And you know what? In a couple of years, when my son doesn't depend on me quite so much, I'm going back to school. I'm going to finish my degree, and then, who knows? Once Noah's in school himself, I just may put my degree to use, assuming that we haven't had another child by then.

Want to know something else? I don't for one second regret staying at home. I'm not an overly social person, so I don't miss the interaction I'd get from a job like some people would. I meet up with other mothers around here, and that's interaction enough for me. I miss being able to go out and buy anything I wanted, whenever I wanted, but that's a small price to pay for providing the best home environment for my son. I watched my mom bust her *** working when my brother and I were younger, and I'm thankful that I don't have to do that. I'm thankful that I can spend as much or as little time with my son as I want, and I'm thankful that I'm not a slave to anyone else's needs or demands other than those of the people that need me the most - my family.

Still think I'm lazy? I invite you to step into my shoes for a day and see if you feel the same. My life is certainly busy and fulfilling enough to suit my personality.

It's not that I "won't" get a job, because I would in a heartbeat if we needed the income. It's that I don't NEED a job, because my family needs me more than any employer out there ever could....and I enjoy my role here at home as mother and wife far more than I could ever enjoy just being another employee.


Alright....I'll step off of my soapbox now.
 
Good for you.
Now accept that my life is perfect for me and best for my kids, and move the fvck on.
 
Good for you.
Now accept that my life is perfect for me and best for my kids, and move the fvck on.

Where have I suggested otherwise? I HAVEN'T. In fact....

I applaud moms that work outside of the home. They definitely have it harder than us stay at home moms, since they have to go out and do their traditional job, and then manage to do everything else I do in between. But hey, that's what they chose for themselves.

...and some moms NEED to have a job besides being Mom...and that's totally cool!

If that works for some people, that's great, but that's NOT what works for MY family. I'm obviously not the only one here that feels that way.

It depends upon individual personality, goals, and desires. You say you enjoy work, so obviously you find a level of structure, happiness, and productivity in your work. So do I....only, my work is not done for anyone other than my family.

But the point remains that stay at home moms are doing what is best for THEIR family, just like working mothers are doing what works best for THEIR family.

There is no need to be so rude to me. I get that you have some kind of problem with me, which you're more than welcome to take up with me in a PM or down in the Basement even. But I'm not going to let that deter me from debating you. I have never once said that you're not doing what works best for your family. I have, however, been merely trying to get you to stop villifying those of us who have systems that work for us that are contrary to your own. You continue to put down stay at home mothers, though we have ALL said that we admire working mothers. We're just looking to have a little of our respect returned.
 
I'm bored with this subject.
You do what you see fit, and I'll do what I see fit. Savvy?
If it's still eating away at you, why don't you go post something nasty about me in the basement thread you started for that purpose?
It's obvious nobody else is interested in doing so, despite your rather desperate encouragement.
 
Good for you.
Now accept that my life is perfect for me and best for my kids, and move the fvck on.

I'm bored with this subject.
You do what you see fit, and I'll do what I see fit. Savvy?
If it's still eating away at you, why don't you go post something nasty about me in the basement thread you started for that purpose?
It's obvious nobody else is interested in doing so, despite your rather desperate encouragement.
no response, out of respect for Captain Courtesy & STACE
 
Originally Posted by 1069
Good for you.
Now accept that my life is perfect for me and best for my kids, and move the fvck on.

Originally Posted by 1069
I'm bored with this subject.
You do what you see fit, and I'll do what I see fit. Savvy?
If it's still eating away at you, why don't you go post something nasty about me in the basement thread you started for that purpose?
It's obvious nobody else is interested in doing so, despite your rather desperate encouragement.

I am shocked! :shock:

If you truly wanted to, "move the fvck on" you would just do so, rather than to attack all of my posts regarding this subject as well as any other that disagreed with you...

All you do is talk ****, except for you one, and rather unusal attempt to communicate...

1069
Well, now that we've all psychoanalyzed one another to a frazzle, it appears we're some justifying motherfvckers around here.
In this corner, we've got Rivrrat, attempting to "justify" her selfish life of a swingin' single chick.
In that corner, we've got 1069, "justifying" neglecting her kids by working outside her home.
Over here we've got Stace, attempting to "justify" why her lazy arse doesn't go out and get a job.
Over there, we've got Mikhail, "justifying" his obsession with phone sex.
Over here, the Cap'n, "justifying" his selfishly childless state.
Over there, we've got Tallou, trying to justify being a "stay-at-home mom" to children who are in school all day.
Over there, Botisatva, justifying his voyeuristic passion for poking his prurient shnozz into everybody else's bidness, not to mention his curious relationship with the sycophantic Johnny Utah.

Boy, I sure am glad we engaged in this orgy of self-justification.
I feel justified.
How about y'all? Do you feel justified?

:rofl

THAT was some funny stuff...

1069
I do. That sucks...I can empathize.
And although I've had nearly a decade and a half to absorb and assimilate the "lesson", I cannot for the life of me tell you what it was supposed to have taught me. That is part of life...we don't always know nor do we think that there is always a lessonHas it made me a better parent to my now-fully-recovered child? Probably
Not really. I bet it did It made me overprotective and overbearing to the point that he had no choice but to rebel, no choice but to become deceitful and sneaky, since I allowed him no breathing room. That was HIS choice... we all learn our own lessons in life.
The lesson I am now learning- being forced to learn- is how to let go. We all are learning that one
All parents have to learn it eventually; parents of a child who was once critically ill no doubt have a harder time with it than most. Yep
I look at my six-foot-tall son, a boy in a man's body, and I see a critically ill infant who will die without my constant, 24-hour vigilance, and might die even with it.
This infuriates him. He doesn't remember being that baby, of course, and he doesn't want to be constantly associated with it. He doesn't remember ever being anything but tough and strong and healthy, and he doesn't want any reminders that he was ever fragile and desperately ill. He doesn't want or need my constant vigilance, my protection. He wants to be acknowledged and respected as the independent near-adult that he is. His previous health problems make this difficult for me.

But there's nothing I learned from this experience that would necessarily be applicable or useful to another parent of a critically ill child. You just are not applying yourself...of course there are things that applicable and useful to another parent of a critically ill child
There's no secret knowledge that only you and I- as parents of critically ill children- are privy to. Sure there is... We have little in common, I bet we have more in common than you would care to admit... and we don't seem to agree on much. I agree with you on more than you would like to hear, you just don't see it since I remain quite. All I see is you attack me. Touche' Going through similar experiences apparently left us with entirely different viewpoints. Perhaps

It's that way with everything; everything in life. Yep
My experiences are not applicable to anyone but me, and neither are anyone else's. And two people can go through the exact same experience, and learn two totally different lessons from it. Yep, but they also learn overlapping themes

I, for instance, have never considered parenting either a "job" or a "profession", and I already stated that on another thread. It's life. It's not "a profession" (which would indicate that you could stop doing it at some point). Neither do I. That was just a bad metaphore
It's no more a profession than being female or having brown hair is a "profession". It's who and what I am. It's not a job- it's my life. Being a parent is not a job, either. It's who and what I am.
I understand how it may seem like a "job" to new parents, to parents whose children are still infants... but that's because they do not yet realize how long forever is.
I don't think, in a decade or two, they will still think of parenting the same way (although i could be wrong).

Take it easy...
 
Originally Posted by 1069
I apologize, Cap'n (and anybody else who was offended), but I'm tired of hearing
people accuse one another of trying to "justify" their lives.
Nobody needs to "justify" jackshite, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm sure everyone is doing as they see fit, and that's all the "justification" that's necessary.

Trying to justify your justifications?

People need to quit judging, is what they need to do.

H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.T.E.

If they were truly so deliriously happy with their own lives and choices, I doubt they'd be expending so much time and energy on judging the lives of others.

Well, we all know how unhappy you are, so that explains why you expend so much time and energy on judging the lives of others. :lol:
 
Trying to justify your justifications?



H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.T.E.



Well, we all know how unhappy you are, so that explains why you expend so much time and energy on judging the lives of others. :lol:

Moderator's Warning:
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The personal attacks need to stop from EVERYONE, no exceptions. Next one gets you booted from the thread, and other consequences, also.
 
Captain! Surely you do not mean to hinder my desire to be petty, do you? :lol:

Originally Posted by Stace
There is no need to be so rude to me. I get that you have some kind of problem with me, which you're more than welcome to take up with me in a PM or down in the Basement even. But I'm not going to let that deter me from debating you. I have never once said that you're not doing what works best for your family. I have, however, been merely trying to get you to stop villifying those of us who have systems that work for us that are contrary to your own.

You continue to put down stay at home mothers, though we have ALL said that we admire working mothers.

We're just looking to have a little of our respect returned.

In my own way, that is what I have been trying to do as well. I just get frustrated with the ridiculous insults that never stop spewing from her lips. It never ends, even when people try to make peace.
 
See...

I see this issue continuing. Attacks abound on fathers, stay at home mothers and traditional family structure. Why? Why can't those that live in non-traditional families simply accept stop ripping at the fabric of the family?

Can family have many meanings...yes.

I see involved stay at home mothers excluded from things by working mothers daily. I often wonder if this is because working mothers at simply jealous or if it is because they are ashamed that they took a selfish route of working rather than attending to their children.

Before some of you get all huffy...some women and single parents have to work and they are not included in this observation. I am referring to mothers in relationships that choose to go back to work immediately and they put their kids in day care and even after that they have their kids running around to classes or then get baby-sitters so that they can go to their own classes like yoga.
 
Man your obsessed with this topic. Why does it matter to you if someone chooses to stay at home or go to work, whether there is financial imperative to do so or not? There are a million different ways of raising kids, and lo-and-behold regardless of which way a person chooses, chances are the kid's gonna turn out okay. The fact that the majority of people do is testament to that. So why the need to argue that which ever choice is not your own is somehow flawed, selfish, or inferior?
 
Cremaster77
Man your obsessed with this topic. Why does it matter to you if someone chooses to stay at home or go to work, whether there is financial imperative to do so or not? There are a million different ways of raising kids, and lo-and-behold regardless of which way a person chooses, chances are the kid's gonna turn out okay. The fact that the majority of people do is testament to that. So why the need to argue that which ever choice is not your own is somehow flawed, selfish, or inferior?

Obsessed? Hardly... :)

It matters to me not. You are, in fact, supporting my point perfectly. Why should it matter what a person chooses to do? Thanks....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom