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Should these teens be tried as adults

Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

  • yes and throw away the key

    Votes: 72 87.8%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    Votes: 10 12.2%

  • Total voters
    82
prove it. and I mean prove that the experts claim that people who commit CRIMES LIKE THIS can be rehabilitated and not some general study covering any and all crimes.

Prove that they can't.

then kindly direct your death penalty comments to "those people" and not me.

Are you nuts? You've been the one continually quoting my posts and trying to attack them. Believe me, it doesn't bother me in the least if you decide to bow out of this argument.
 
Again, no because I don't think people who commit murders think they would be caught anyway.

1) what would make anyone think that?
and
2) what would make these guys think that?

and, anticipating your reply, wouldn't that confirm my original scenario?
 
Unless you are one of these "experts", you have just disqualified your own opinion.

I don't believe I have. It's up to experts to decide if rehabilitation is successful or not. How can anyone know until it's tried? Lol! You guys are just too much!
 
1) what would make anyone think that?
and
2) what would make these guys think that?

and, anticipating your reply, wouldn't that confirm my original scenario?

Of course they don't. People don't commit crimes because they think they'll be caught. They do it because they think they will NOT be caught, and that is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. What do you mean "what would make these guys think that?" I've provided enough links here to answer your questions. READ them.
 
Prove that they can't.

you first. you are the one who has been claiming that "the experts" agree with you.


Are you nuts? You've been the one continually quoting my posts and trying to attack them. Believe me, it doesn't bother me in the least if you decide to bow out of this argument.

missed the point. YOU are the one who keeps harping on the death penalty...not me. if you want to argue death penalty, do it with the people who are claiming to want these 3 scumbuckets killed.
 
you first. you are the one who has been claiming that "the experts" agree with you.

READ THE LINKS I POSTED!!!


missed the point. YOU are the one who keeps harping on the death penalty...not me. if you want to argue death penalty, do it with the people who are claiming to want these 3 scumbuckets killed.

Then STOP quoting me.
 
READ THE LINKS I POSTED!!!

the links you quoted are not specific to, and I quote, "crimes like this"




Then STOP quoting me.

sure, just as soon as you stop replying to my posts with irrelevant crap about the death penalty
 
Of course they don't. People don't commit crimes because they think they'll be caught. They do it because they think they will NOT be caught, and that is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. What do you mean "what would make these guys think that?" I've provided enough links here to answer your questions. READ them.
Why would these guys think they wouldn't be caught ... can you summarize for me?

I haven't read where they took great pains to cover their tracks.
I haven't read where they tried to establish an alibi for each of them.
Did they wear disguises? Did they paint the black car white?

Are you sure you're not confusing "no fear of being caught" with "driven by something that overrides the fear of being caught".
 
The experts claim otherwise.

Because people have been saying they'd like to see the kids put to death. That's why.

What experts claim that folks who kill for the thrill of it (e.g. serial killers) can be rehabilitated?

While a few morons assume that juveniles can still get the DP, the SCOTUS said no, so it is a non-issue.
 
Why would these guys think they wouldn't be caught ... can you summarize for me?

I haven't read where they took great pains to cover their tracks.
I haven't read where they tried to establish an alibi for each of them.
Did they wear disguises? Did they paint the black car white?

Are you sure you're not confusing "no fear of being caught" with "driven by something that overrides the fear of being caught".

In many cases, what they think they can gain overrides their fear of getting caught. and in some cases they just don't care if they get caught
 
In many cases, what they think they can gain overrides their fear of getting caught. and in some cases they just don't care if they get caught

The fact that these morons have had prior experience with the juvenile justice system and yet had avoided any serious consequences probably played into their decision to "go for it". As I understand it, they are gang "wanna bes" and may see this type of act giving them valuable "street cred" while doubting that any long sentence (past age 21) would ever result even if they were caught and faced "justice".
 
In many cases, what they think they can gain overrides their fear of getting caught. and in some cases they just don't care if they get caught

That's what I was getting at ... to see if Chris could be clearer
 

how about you provide some actual quotes from these lengthy articles instead of expecting us to read through hundreds of pages to find your proof for you?

I took the time to check your first link and the only thing relevent to cases like this if found was:

I have had these young people come into my court charged with committing some violent acts as serious as murder, but they had not gone into the adult system, because it was a decision I made as a result of a fitness hearing that this person indeed was amenable to treatment. And in some cases--not all, but in some cases--I have been proved right.

so, even after a fitness hearing determined they were amenable to treatment, it only worked in some cases. hardly a ringing endorsement of "experts claim these kids can be rehabilitated". In this case, in particular, I would be willing to bet that these three turds would not be found amenable to treatment.
 
In many cases, what they think they can gain overrides their fear of getting caught. and in some cases they just don't care if they get caught

I do believe that many criminals don't fear getting caught, and have always wondered if they're delusional, or... if more actually DO get away without being caught and the media and police never tell us otherwise law-abiding citizens that part.
 
The fact that these morons have had prior experience with the juvenile justice system and yet had avoided any serious consequences probably played into their decision to "go for it". As I understand it, they are gang "wanna bes" and may see this type of act giving them valuable "street cred" while doubting that any long sentence (past age 21) would ever result even if they were caught and faced "justice".

exactly. at least one of them has laready had his shot at juvenile rehabilitation and blew it.
 
I do believe that many criminals don't fear getting caught, and have always wondered if they're delusional, or... if more actually DO get away without being caught and the media and police never tell us otherwise law-abiding citizens that part.

there are thousands of unsolved murders in this country. I would be willing to bet that more people get away with it than get caught. of if they do get caught it is only after they have committed dozens of crimes.
 
there are thousands of unsolved murders in this country. I would be willing to bet that more people get away with it than get caught. of if they do get caught it is only after they have committed dozens of crimes.

That's always been my suspicion, as well.
 
I do believe that many criminals don't fear getting caught, and have always wondered if they're delusional, or... if more actually DO get away without being caught and the media and police never tell us otherwise law-abiding citizens that part.

Is that how you feel about juveniles too, because evidence contradicts that, as I've posted numerous times now. Since you guys apparently don't like to look at links, I've taken the liberty to quote just some relevant sections. It would be much better to read the entire thing, but whatever. Here is just ONE reason why teens should not be prosecuted as adults.

Brain Connection » Powered by Posit Science - Your Brain Health Headquarters

The researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers. Adults also have lower activity in their amygdala than teenagers. In fact, as teenagers age into adulthood, the overall focus of brain activity seems to shift from the amygdala to the frontal lobes.

The frontal lobes of the brain have been implicated in behavioral inhibition, the ability to control emotions and impulses. The frontal lobes are also thought to be the place where decisions about right and wrong, as well as cause-effect relationships are processed. In contrast, the amygdala is part of the limbic system of the brain and is involved in instinctive “gut” reactions, including “fight or flight” responses. Lower activity in the frontal lobe could lead to poor control over behavior and emotions, while an overactive amygdala may be associated with high levels of emotional arousal and reactionary decision-making.

The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can to use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way. For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle. As Dr. Yurgelun-Todd told U.S. News, “Good judgment is learned, but you can’t learn it if you don’t have the necessary hardware.”
Jay Giedd and his colleagues at the National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) have reached similar conclusions using a brain imaging technique that looks at brain structure rather than activity. Giedd’s results suggest that development in the frontal lobe continues throughout adolescence and well into the early twenties. The researchers found that the number of neurons in the frontal lobe continued to increase throughout childhood until an average age of 12.1 years for men and 10.2 years for women. Scientists previously thought that gray matter production and development only occurred during the first 18 months of life. The fact changes are still occurring in the brain during adolescence provides some evidence against some popular theories that suggest that our brains are hardwired during early childhood. These brain imaging studies instead suggest that adolescence may provide a sort of “second chance” to refine behavioral control and rational decision making.

These studies may offer some hope to teenagers suffering from behavioral or emotional problems. The fact that the decision making centers of the brain continue to develop well into the early twenties could mean that troubled teenagers still have the time as well as the physiology to learn how to control their impulsive behaviors.
 
What experts claim that folks who kill for the thrill of it (e.g. serial killers) can be rehabilitated?

While a few morons assume that juveniles can still get the DP, the SCOTUS said no, so it is a non-issue.

Whoever claimed that ALL juveniles can be rehabilitated. I said that they are the ones most worthy of rehabilitation and should not ever be charged as adults because they are NOT adults, even if they suffer from a mental illness. In fact, charging them as adults if they DO suffer from a mental illness is even more bogus.
 
That's always been my suspicion, as well.

I read an article once that put forth the idea that many of these unsolved murders are the work of serial killers that haven't been caught yet.

I have thought about it as a mental exercise. If I had no friends or family to keep me rooted in any one place, I could kill a young white guy in the city I live now with a knife. move to Nashville, wait a week or so and then beat a black lady to death with a pipe, move on up to cleveland and shoot an old hispanic dude. travel over to NYC and strangle an asian teenager. head to the west coast and break a white lady's neck. you could hitch hike or hop a train and travel all over the country, taking odds jobs to make $$$. as long as you never killed more than one person in an area and if you varied your victim and method of killing, there would be very little chance of the authorities making any connection between the murders. about the only way you would get caught is if you were caught in the act.
 
Whoever claimed that ALL juveniles can be rehabilitated. I said that they are the ones most worthy of rehabilitation and should not ever be charged as adults because they are NOT adults, even if they suffer from a mental illness. In fact, charging them as adults if they DO suffer from a mental illness is even more bogus.

and, in this particular case, I would argue that these particular teenagers don't meet any of the criteria you have posted/linked that would give any indication that they have a decent chance at rehabilitation.
 
I read an article once that put forth the idea that many of these unsolved murders are the work of serial killers that haven't been caught yet.

I have thought about it as a mental exercise. If I had no friends or family to keep me rooted in any one place, I could kill a young white guy in the city I live now with a knife. move to Nashville, wait a week or so and then beat a black lady to death with a pipe, move on up to cleveland and shoot an old hispanic dude. travel over to NYC and strangle an asian teenager. head to the west coast and break a white lady's neck. you could hitch hike or hop a train and travel all over the country, taking odds jobs to make $$$. as long as you never killed more than one person in an area and if you varied your victim and method of killing, there would be very little chance of the authorities making any connection between the murders. about the only way you would get caught is if you were caught in the act.

That's really creepy dude. Seems like you've actually given this a lot of thought.
 
and, in this particular case, I would argue that these particular teenagers don't meet any of the criteria you have posted/linked that would give any indication that they have a decent chance at rehabilitation.

Are you a psychologist? Have you interviewed or spoken to these kids? What do you know about their mental health, their upbringings, etc?
 
That's really creepy dude. Seems like you've actually given this a lot of thought.

there are many things that I have given lots of thought. like I said, it is a mental exercise. I saw an article talking about all the unsolved murders in the country and how many of them might be the work of serial killers and it made me wonder how a person might be able to be a serial killer and not get caught.
 
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