• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should these teens be tried as adults

Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

  • yes and throw away the key

    Votes: 72 87.8%

  • no, they deserve a second chance

    Votes: 10 12.2%
  • Total voters
    82
LaMidRighter said:
There was no negligence, this was based on pure malice. These "kids" unfortunately meant to cause harm.
Click to expand...

Well, we don't know this since this case has not even been to trial. All we know is that we have some statements from the prosecution. Don't forget that people are innocent until proven guilty in our country.
 
OscarB63 said:
it is when you keep making excuses as to why they shouldn't be held accountable as adults for committing an adult crime.
Click to expand...

Because they are NOT adults. That is a fact.
 
ChrisL said:
Hello? That is a statement by the prosecution. The defense has not said that.
Click to expand...

hello? are you accusing the cops of making the statement up?
 
I don't think that a lot of the posters here understand the implications of this case, and the setting in which it happened. I was born in the town where the Australian baseball player went to school (East central U in Ada Oklahoma). Duncan is about 85 miles from there. These are sleepy little towns, where high school basketball and baseball may as well be national sports, and the people are good old boys, and salt of the earth. Most of my relatives live up there to this day. This isn't a shooting in Cleveland or Detroit. This is HIGHLY unusual in these communities, and imo, these boys should be locked up, and the keys thrown away.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, we don't know this since this case has not even been to trial. All we know is that we have some statements from the prosecution. Don't forget that people are innocent until proven guilty in our country.
Click to expand...
The kids implicated themselves, they said they caused the fatality because they were "bored". No trial needed, they claimed purpose, this was a malicious and not negligent act.

EDIT - This is an open and shut case, the little idiots gave the evidence themselves.
 
OscarB63 said:
hello? are you accusing the cops of making the statement up?
Click to expand...

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm simply letting you know that:

1. We don't know any details other than a few press releases.
2. You certainly cannot rely entirely on what the prosecution claims - they are trying to make a case.
3. Innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, we don't know this since this case has not even been to trial. All we know is that we have some statements from the prosecution. Don't forget that people are innocent until proven guilty in our country.
Click to expand...

The boys themselves have been quoted, Chris.
 
LaMidRighter said:
The kids implicated themselves, they said they caused the fatality because they were "bored". No trial needed, they claimed purpose, this was a malicious and not negligent act.

EDIT - This is an open and shut case, the little idiots gave the evidence themselves.
Click to expand...

AGAIN, that is what the PROSECUTION claims happened. We haven't heard from the defense yet. These kids have NOT had a trial yet. WTH is wrong with you people? You want to assume guilt and assume that you know all of the effing details when it's obvious that you DO NOT. Why? So that you can throw some kids into an adult correctional facility? For what purpose?
 
lizzie said:
The boys themselves have been quoted, Chris.
Click to expand...

well...according to her, we only have the word of the prosecution that these punks said anything. I just don't get why she is bending over backwards to excuse this crap and wants these killers treated like children
 
lizzie said:
The boys themselves have been quoted, Chris.
Click to expand...

Provide a link that quotes the boys' words and NOT what the prosecution claims. They are trying to make a case here.
 
ChrisL said:
Provide a link that quotes the boys' words and NOT what the prosecution claims. They are trying to make a case here.
Click to expand...

Have you not been reading the news articles on the case? Jeez. Hard to believe what I'm seeing here.
 
OscarB63 said:
well...according to her, we only have the word of the prosecution that these punks said anything. I just don't get why she is bending over backwards to excuse this crap and wants these killers treated like children
Click to expand...

Again, I didn't excuse anything. You can join the other angry villagers with your pitch fork and torch, screaming for bloody vengeance BEFORE you know all the facts. :roll:
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Then why do so many countries who rehabilitate have a fraction of our recidivism rate?

Either we did something wrong, or that's BS.

Prisoners are not coddles. Quite a few of relatively minor crimes are actually extremely isolated, and certainly don't have TVs.
Click to expand...

Well of course they are coddled.

I understand you have your opinion on the issue, but I'd sure like to see some data to back up your claims.

Rehabilitation was the primary mission in the US penal system for decades. Once that effort was discovered to have little impact, it was changed to focus on incarceration, rather than the belief convicts could in a general sense be convinced they could live a different life.
 
lizzie said:
Have you not been reading the news articles on the case? Jeez. Hard to believe what I'm seeing here.
Click to expand...

Well then it should be easy for you to provide me the link I requested. Thanks in advance.
 
ChrisL said:
Again, I didn't excuse anything. You can join the other angry villagers with your pitch fork and torch, screaming for bloody vengeance BEFORE you know all the facts. :roll:
Click to expand...

What fact are we missing?
 
ChrisL said:
Again, I didn't excuse anything. You can join the other angry villagers with your pitch fork and torch, screaming for bloody vengeance BEFORE you know all the facts. :roll:
Click to expand...

fact...they are accused of committing a premeditated murder. that alone is enough to charge them as adults.
 
ocean515 said:
Well of course they are coddled.

I understand you have your opinion on the issue, but I'd sure like to see some data to back up your claims.

Rehabilitation was the primary mission in the US penal system for decades. Once that effort was discovered to have little impact, it was changed to focus on incarceration, rather than the belief convicts could in a general sense be convinced they could live a different life.
Click to expand...

And children as young as 7 could and were given the death penalty before. And experts claim an 80% success rate with rehabilitation. So I guess you'll have to call them and argue that you know and all the people here know better than the experts about recidivism and rehabilitation as it pertains to juveniles.
 
ChrisL said:
And children as young as 7 could and were given the death penalty before. And experts claim an 80% success rate with rehabilitation. So I guess you'll have to call them and argue that you know and all the people here know better than the experts about recidivism and rehabilitation as it pertains to juveniles.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see the studies that back up your "expert's" claim. I would be very surprised to see proof of an 80% success rate with rehabilitating murderers
 
ChrisL said:
Well then it should be easy for you to provide me the link I requested. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Frankly, you can read just about any article on the murder, and see what they themselves had to say.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
Click to expand...





How these three young men will be tried will be decided in Oklahoma.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/police_australian_player_killed_J8hM1jhw9Us1DltFFWCGQM
 
Last edited:
ChrisL said:
AGAIN, that is what the PROSECUTION claims happened. We haven't heard from the defense yet. These kids have NOT had a trial yet. WTH is wrong with you people? You want to assume guilt and assume that you know all of the effing details when it's obvious that you DO NOT. Why? So that you can throw some kids into an adult correctional facility? For what purpose?
Click to expand...
Problem is, the kids are on record as doing it because "they were bored". It doesn't get any more solid than a confession.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Yup. And guess what?

America has a terrible track record of even attempting rehabilitation. Probably the worst in the developed world.

Countries that do rehabilitate have a tiny fraction of our recidivism rate. That is why I suggested we start doing it.
Click to expand...
To be fair, we have tons of rehabilitative plans in jails and prisons and still have a high recidivism rate. Inmates are given the opportunity to join G.E.D. programs, study programs, if they are trustees they are given the opportunity to join work release programs, and the "halfway house" system. These are all designed to steer people away from a in and out prison lifestyle, yet we still have a high recidivism. I don't have a lot of good answers for that but it is the reality.
 
lizzie said:
Frankly, you can read just about any article on the murder, and see what they themselves had to say.
Click to expand...

As you can clearly see from the OP article, it certainly does not state anything that the boys' said and apparently they weren't allowed to say their piece yet. Also, if you know anything about the interrogation process, there have been MANY cases where adults have cracked under the pressure and admitted to murders or what not just to make it stop. Obviously, children and teens could easily crack under that same stress and pressure.

All I'm saying is that before you jump to conclusions and assume you know everything about this case and these boys, why not wait until more facts come out? Is that unreasonable?

With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.

As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.

Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
Click to expand...
 
OscarB63 said:
I'd like to see the studies that back up your "expert's" claim. I would be very surprised to see proof of an 80% success rate with rehabilitating murderers
Click to expand...

What?? I've already quoted it MULTIPLE times and posted the links. It didn't apply to just murderers but to the rehabilitative process in general, and it stated it includes those juveniles convicted of "violent" crimes. Of course it doesn't specify the actual crimes because, again, these are sealed juvenile records.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom