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Should these teens be tried as adults

Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

  • yes and throw away the key

    Votes: 72 87.8%

  • no, they deserve a second chance

    Votes: 10 12.2%
  • Total voters
    82
The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16. Considering that the state considers 16 year olds old enough to understand the ramifications of sexual intercourse I'd think they'd also assume 16 year olds understand the ramifications of committing murder.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
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We certainly want to be able to try these kids as adults. But if we have exceptions for punishment but upon age for the reason that kids can't reason out or know as well as adults, then we should probably follow that.
 
Just to give you some insight as to what we are seeing in our Media here....

Obviously the family and friends of the young man are devastated. We're just shaking our heads at such a senseless waste of a life. The mind boggles trying to understand what would make kids decide to go out to shoot someone just for something to do. This entire tragedy impacts on so many innocent people whose lives will never be the same.

The family of Chris are comforted by the fact that he was very happy in the US. They are so grateful he was being well looked after, he had a girlfriend of 4 years and the Community had embraced him as one of their own. His friends and second family in the US are heartbroken too.

Many of us are also concerned that his death is already being "used" by those arguing for stricter gun control. He's not a pawn to be used in your arguments. These kids were hell bent on wanting to kill someone and anyone who is that deranged can kill numerous ways. We understand that evil does indeed exist everywhere. We see it here too. We don't have a gun culture here but that doesn't make our kids safe.

Evil people do evil things.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
They didn't realize that if you shoot somebody there is every chance they will die or be horribly injured for life? C'mon Chris.
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From a link I posted earlier in case you missed it. So no, they are not "evil." :lol: Also, I clarified my earlier statement to say that children and teens often do not THINK about the consequences of their actions.


3. With appropriate treatment most children who commit crimes, even the most violent crimes, can be rehabilitated and become responsible adults. Precisely because their brains are still changing. The prefrontal cortex - which regulates aggression, long range planning, mental flexibility, abstract thinking, and perhaps moral judgment (See Bower Study) has not yet developed in children. The amygdala, the center of impulsive and aggressive behavior is the center piece of the child brain and is left unchecked by the under developed prefrontal cortex.
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TiredOfLife said:
The shooter was probably the most immature of the three.
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He had the wherewithal to hold a gun and shoot an innocent man in the back, killing him.
His cohorts were supporting him; therefore, they should share in the guilt.
No reason for the 3 thugs to start acting like babies now.
 
And also:

1. It is wrong to hold children and adolescents who have not reached legal age to adult standards. In other areas of law we recognize the differences between children and adults. Children are not permitted the same rights and responsibilities as adults (e.g. voting, smoking, joining the military) because we recognize their inability to make adult decisions. Why don't we recognize the same difference in the criminal law? We don't say, "this is a very important election, so let's let the kids vote". We don't say, "this is a very important war so let's give our children weapons and send them to fight". So why do we say "this case is different and this kid deserves to be treated as an adult and locked away in a prison"?
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I know why. It's because people get angry and break out their pitchforks and torches. Instead of thinking logically about the situation, they let emotion take over.
 
lolabird said:
He had the wherewithal to hold a gun and shoot an innocent man in the back, killing him.
His cohorts were supporting him; therefore, they should share in the guilt.
No reason for the 3 thugs to start acting like babies now.
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CRUE CAB said:
15 year olds, no matter the up bringing. Know right from wrong.
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Soooo . . . no comments on my links and scientific data hmmm? Interesting.
 
They killed someone! Let's kill them. That'll make us feel better! :lol:
 
ChrisL said:
Soooo . . . no comments on my links and scientific data hmmm? Interesting.
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I just saw the thread, didnt read 21 pages of it.
But no matter what link you got, they knew right from wrong. What they did was just about the most wrong thing in the world.
Life in jail, no exceptions.
Dont waste your time or breath trying to convince me otherwise.
 
ChrisL said:
And also:
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What do you suggest as a penalty for a teenager who willingly shot an innocent man in the back, killing him?
At what age do you suspect a teenager discerns that murdering someone is wrong?
 
lolabird said:
What do you suggest as a penalty for a teenager who willingly shot an innocent man in the back, killing him?
At what age do you suspect a teenager discerns that murdering someone is wrong?
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Imprisonment as a juvenile and attempts at rehabilitation.
 
ChrisL said:
They killed someone! Let's kill them. That'll make us feel better! :lol:
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I dont think anything will "make us feel better" and that is not the point of punishment. Let them do life, and be examples of what being stupid at that age will get you.
 
CRUE CAB said:
I just saw the thread, didnt read 21 pages of it.
But no matter what link you got, they knew right from wrong. What they did was just about the most wrong thing in the world.
Life in jail, no exceptions.
Dont waste your time or breath trying to convince me otherwise.
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So IOW, you refuse to educate yourself on the subject. Gotcha! :mrgreen:
 
ChrisL said:
They killed someone! Let's kill them. That'll make us feel better! :lol:
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If that were your son they killed, would it make you feel better knowing the thugs received a slap on the wrist and probation? After all, they are just teenagers.
 
CRUE CAB said:
What attempts at life did they gave the victim? He was sentenced to death, for no reason at all.
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If you aren't referring to the death penalty, then I have no problem. I do believe they should be punished, but like I said earlier we've had the DP since Europeans first came to populate North America, and it hasn't really done anything to deter or prevent things like this from happening. I would like to see some solutions that actually work instead of the old "eye for an eye" routine.
 
lolabird said:
If that were your son they killed, would it make you feel better knowing the thugs received a slap on the wrist and probation? After all, they are just teenagers.
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Of course not, who said anything about a "slap on the wrist?"
 
ChrisL said:
Imprisonment as a juvenile and attempts at rehabilitation.
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What does imprisonment as a juvenile mean? Most can be released at age 21 unless they have been given a life sentence. What type of rehabilitation is offered in prison for shooting an innocent man in the back?
 
lolabird said:
What does imprisonment as a juvenile mean? Most can be released at age 21 unless they have been given a life sentence. What type of rehabilitation is offered in prison for shooting an innocent man in the back?
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It's all in the links I posted. I agree, that in cases of murder, a juvenile should be held for an extended period of time. I just don't know of a logical way to go about doing that, but throwing them into the adult correctional system is not doing anyone any favors.
 
ChrisL said:
And also:
I know why. It's because people get angry and break out their pitchforks and torches. Instead of thinking logically about the situation, they let emotion take over.
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Hello Chris, I agree with you on many subjects, and respect your opinion,
But I have one question, How old were you when you knew killing someone
was wrong, and bad things might happen to you if you did?
While they are clearly teens, and lacking in adult decision ability,
their crime was not, "I beat someone up because they said something I did not like",
But rather the willful taking of a human life...for entertainment!
The decision tree that leads the the conclusion, is so flawed, that
I question weather the person will ever be safe in society.
 
longview said:
Hello Chris, I agree with you on many subjects, and respect your opinion,
But I have one question, How old were you when you knew killing someone
was wrong, and bad things might happen to you if you did?
While they are clearly teens, and lacking in adult decision ability,
their crime was not, "I beat someone up because they said something I did not like",
But rather the willful taking of a human life...for entertainment!
The decision tree that leads the the conclusion, is so flawed, that
I question weather the person will ever be safe in society.
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Some more information from one of the links, if only to save myself from trying to type this stuff out. ;)

7. Contrary to popular belief, it is the child and not his or her parent or guardian who must decide what to tell the police and defense attorneys, whether or not to follow attorney instructions, whether to testify, whether to give information to the prosecution, and whether to go to trial or accept a plea bargain. Although common sense would suggest that many children are simply too young to undertake such weighty legal responsibilities, it is rare for courts to consider whether children lack the competence to stand trial because of their age. Every child offender should have a competency hearing before trial.

8. “Adult time for adult crime” may be a catchy phrase but it reflects a poor understanding of criminal justice principles. If the punishment is to fit the crime, both the nature of the offense and the culpability or moral responsibility of the offender must be taken into account. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized, the blameworthiness of children cannot be equated with that of adults, even when they commit the same crime.
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Either you apply the same standards to all or you get rid of legislation that mandates that minors are treated differently to adults. I don't see the sense or the justice in saying "minors will be treated as distinct from adults before the law" and then remove that status as it suits, for arbitrary reasons.

Why not say that in cases of murder, there is no such thing as a minor? Giving judges discretion leads to suspicion that not everyone will receive equal treatment.
 
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