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Bullying...

How are we doing at addressing bullying?

  • We're not doing enough.

    Votes: 26 43.3%
  • We're right on track and taking appropriate measures.

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • We're blowing it way out of proportion.

    Votes: 20 33.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 7 11.7%

  • Total voters
    60
It's a difficult issue, and how to handle it with your child is tricky.


Outside of gang-infested (mostly) urban schools, most bullying is social and psychological rather than overtly violent... yet it is exactly this kind of bullying that can do the worst and most lasting damage, and is the hardest to deal with or fight back against. A child that is neither socially adept nor eloquent finds it hard to verbally defuse this kind of bullying, and children who already have self-confidence problems can be devastated by it.

Given schools' supposed zero-tolerance against violence, and the frequency with which the law gets involved in school fights, telling you kid just to whup someone's ass is likely going to draw you a whole basketfull-of-Hell worth of trouble... especially if your kid ends up throwing the first blow in front of witnesses, or just defended themselves in the ABSENCE of friendly witnesses. This can result in criminal investigation, lawsuits, and all kinds of Not Good.

It's not like it was when I was a youngster, and I complained to my Dad that someone had pushed me around and he said "Go to school tomorrow and fight him... make sure you give him a couple good punches in the face and win or lose he'll leave you alone afterward." At the time, not bad advice, but things are a lot more complicated these days.

So many youngsters do much of their socializing on the Net that cyber-bullying can result in nearly as much emotional trauma as in-person bullying. I think especially since people tend to say WORSE things to people from the safety of the Internet than they would in person...

My son is 17 and in HS; he's always been big for his age, and trained in martial arts from early childhood, but we STILL had bullying issues anyway because it is more complicated these days than can easily be solved just punching someone in the mouth... though I still think that IS a good response to some circumstances.
I'm going to whip out an old cliche for this one, but "zero tolerance" equals zero thinking. If the bullied kid does defend them self, they get in trouble also. This sends the clear message to the kid that they were wrong to try and end the bullying, and should have let it continue.

Sure, the official response would be, "You should have reported it and let the proper authorities deal with it.". Yeah, that works. :roll: What that means is that they will claim there's nothing they can do because they have no evidence and haven't witnessed it themselves. Something that the bullying victim has probably heard too many times already.

IMO, "zero tolerance" is excuse to NOT deal with the issue.
 
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Lighten up, Francis. My kids have no issue with bullying or being bullied. I'm talking about other kids, and there are a lot of them. But just because my kids are mentally healthy enough to handle being bullied, and well-raised enough to not bully, doesn't mean that other kids aren't having this issue. I don't want one single child to have to die, just because somebody wouldn't stand up for them - some teacher didn't fight for them, or some parent didn't watch them closely enough to make sure that they weren't being bullied.

That's were YOUR children and what you teach them comes in. Its their opportunity to help those who could use it.

I have ALWAYS been and still am to a degree socially "dense" as it were. I have been bullied very harshly so I know a thing or two. Been there done that got the T-Shirt more times than I can possibly count.

My pop gave me some good advise when I was younger and denser. Its worked pretty well for me. One, Most people are all mouth and no walk. Two, If you know you are definitely getting into a fight ALWAYS throw the FIRST punch and make it count. Three, bullies only pick on people with no backbone, so grow spine. Three sometimes we are just screwed no matter what we do, do your best anyhow you might get lucky. Four always keep your head. Five, You don't have to be perfect or even good, just consistent. Six, You cant be everything to everyone, so pick one and do it as best you can for you. Seven, respect is earned. If you want it you need to earn it. Eight, Be careful what you wish for you might get it.

I think he got the last one out of a fortune cookie, still its sound advise. My pop is by no means perfect, but I get by in life in part because of his advise.
 
I'm a believer in karma as well, I'm just disappointed that I usually don't get to witness it. :mrgreen:

That is the REAL bitch of it aint it?
 
Like I said - if something like certain things that pass as "bullying" causes you to kill yourself, you're just saving yourself some time before life goes and actually gets hard.

I disagree that bullying needs to result in "manning up", especially when it relates to depression and suicide.
 
Generally, people who commit suicide are people who are wired for it and prone to it to begin with. The bullying won't be the root cause. That was already there. The bullying may be the deciding "last straw" for some, but for many of these people if it weren't the bullying it would have eventually been something else.
 
I would even go so far as physical violence or threats therein, except in the case of criminal gangs. Even in this day and age of overly stupid no tolerance policies. Sometimes it pays to take the penalty.

I still wouldn't go that far. Where do you draw the line? What constitutes a criminal gang? What about one guy beating the crap out of someone in a wheelchair? There are too many iffy propositions, it's easier to just outlaw any physical violence whatsoever and treat it like we do adult physical crime. You can call someone names, you can't physically injure them.
 
Generally, people who commit suicide are people who are wired for it and prone to it to begin with. The bullying won't be the root cause. That was already there. The bullying may be the deciding "last straw" for some, but for many of these people if it weren't the bullying it would have eventually been something else.

exactly.
 
Here is the problem even back when you are in school suicides among those who were bullied were more common than they are today. It just wasn't given national attention. A lot of thoughts in this thread are through rose coloured glasses.

I don't honestly care how many suicides there were. Those who are too emotionally weak to take it probably ought to be taken out of the gene pool.
 
What's your solution - teach kids that life is all sunshine, lollipops and unicorns?
Actually confront said bullies with what is going on seems to work the best according to evidence provided in the thread. I'm pretty sure I mentioned this earlier, I may have forgot.
 
I don't honestly care how many suicides there were. Those who are too emotionally weak to take it probably ought to be taken out of the gene pool.

Yes, because clearly social Darwinism works well right?
 
Generally, people who commit suicide are people who are wired for it and prone to it to begin with. The bullying won't be the root cause. That was already there. The bullying may be the deciding "last straw" for some, but for many of these people if it weren't the bullying it would have eventually been something else.

So what then? They should man up? Let them die, they'll only do it later?
 
Actually confront said bullies with what is going on seems to work the best according to evidence provided in the thread. I'm pretty sure I mentioned this earlier, I may have forgot.

That's fine. If you're bullied, you should seek rational, acceptable ways to stop yourself from being bullied. What I'm against is the people who are obviously as fragile as crystal wanting to criminalize people "being mean" or "picking on someone". That's where I think the slippery slope is going - when someone can be arrested for an assholish post on Facebook.
 
Yes, because clearly social Darwinism works well right?

There's no such thing as social Darwinism in the real world, but if there were, it would sure be a damn sight better than idiot liberalism and government hand-holding.
 
Generally, people who commit suicide are people who are wired for it and prone to it to begin with. The bullying won't be the root cause. That was already there. The bullying may be the deciding "last straw" for some, but for many of these people if it weren't the bullying it would have eventually been something else.

Really? I'd never heard that before. But this isn't a topic I know much about. It just seems like most of the suicides I hear about there does seem to be some sort of easily identifiable root cause.
 
Like I said - if something like certain things that pass as "bullying" causes you to kill yourself, you're just saving yourself some time before life goes and actually gets hard.

There are hormonal issues as well as others that are curable (kid learns how to manage). It is not like the kid is just **** out of luck for the rest of their lives and they are saving misery by ending it now.

Mental, behavioral and conduct disorders are some of the leading risk factors for adolescent suicide, reported Berman. Other factors include substance abuse and access to firearms.

Psychologists spotlight growing concern of higher suicide rates among adolescents
 
There are hormonal issues as well as others that are curable (kid learns how to manage). It is not like the kid is just **** out of luck for the rest of their lives and they are saving misery by ending it now.

Mental, behavioral and conduct disorders are some of the leading risk factors for adolescent suicide, reported Berman. Other factors include substance abuse and access to firearms.

Psychologists spotlight growing concern of higher suicide rates among adolescents

That's crap. It's more liberal idiocy that wants to blame everything but the person responsible. Nothing is ever your fault! Point fingers at someone else! Idiot liberals.
 
There are hormonal issues as well as others that are curable (kid learns how to manage). It is not like the kid is just **** out of luck for the rest of their lives and they are saving misery by ending it now.

Mental, behavioral and conduct disorders are some of the leading risk factors for adolescent suicide, reported Berman. Other factors include substance abuse and access to firearms.

Psychologists spotlight growing concern of higher suicide rates among adolescents

I'm aware that adolescents are more prone to suicide because of emotional imbalances or "issues" or what have you, but they also have rather minor problems in comparison. Once they outgrow the tumultuous times of teenager-hood, problems such as "so-and-so is mean to me" and "the prom queen turned me down for a date and called me an uggo" gets replaced with real concerns, like "where am I gonna live" and "why can't I find a job". If I thought that kids just had to make it through high school and then the world just becomes all happy trees and rainbows, I'd try a little harder to get them through.
 
That's crap. It's more liberal idiocy that wants to blame everything but the person responsible. Nothing is ever your fault! Point fingers at someone else! Idiot liberals.

What in the **** are you talking about? What I posted is about the person, the individual. Unless you don't believe in hormonal, mental, behavioral and conduct disorders your post makes absolutely zero ****ing sense. And where you get politics out of this is perhaps the most bizarre thing that I have heard in quite a while...
 
What in the **** are you talking about? What I posted is about the person, the individual. Unless you don't believe in hormonal, mental, behavioral and conduct disorders your post makes absolutely zero ****ing sense. And where you get politics out of this is perhaps the most bizarre thing that I have heard in quite a while...

Yes, and if the person in question can be legitimately found to have a demonstrable medical disorder, fine. But to claim that *EVERYONE*, or a large percentage of people, has those disorders is a bit absurd. There's a ton of people out there, especially on the social liberal side, that don't ever want anyone to be held accountable for their actions, they want to find excuses for why people don't do the right thing because it's never their fault.

If you don't understand that, you're not paying attention.
 
I'm aware that adolescents are more prone to suicide because of emotional imbalances or "issues" or what have you, but they also have rather minor problems in comparison. Once they outgrow the tumultuous times of teenager-hood, problems such as "so-and-so is mean to me" and "the prom queen turned me down for a date and called me an uggo" gets replaced with real concerns, like "where am I gonna live" and "why can't I find a job". If I thought that kids just had to make it through high school and then the world just becomes all happy trees and rainbows, I'd try a little harder to get them through.

I figured you would e aware of that but a problem like getting a job is nothing major to a kid when they are a kid. That is like saying that you don't have a "real worries" about "where I am gonna live" to a soldier just trying to stay alive or a teen worried about not getting gunned down... right? Point is, stress is relative to the stressor. These factors are then influenced by their emotions and mental stability while going through hormonal changes... etc.
 
Yes, and if the person in question can be legitimately found to have a demonstrable medical disorder, fine. But to claim that *EVERYONE*, or a large percentage of people, has those disorders is a bit absurd. There's a ton of people out there, especially on the social liberal side, that don't ever want anyone to be held accountable for their actions, they want to find excuses for why people don't do the right thing because it's never their fault.

If you don't understand that, you're not paying attention.

I posted a fact about kids that commit or attempt to commit suicide. This is not a claim that everyone or even a large percent have these disorders. If you can't understand that, then based off your posts, you area partisan hack that can't read very well.
 
That's fine. If you're bullied, you should seek rational, acceptable ways to stop yourself from being bullied. What I'm against is the people who are obviously as fragile as crystal wanting to criminalize people "being mean" or "picking on someone". That's where I think the slippery slope is going - when someone can be arrested for an assholish post on Facebook.
Umm, I don't think any human is fragile as a crystal unless you are talking about Sam Jackson in Unbreakable. However; there is no reason to allow continuous bullying like what has been in the news recently. It has nothing to do with fragile humans and more to do with poor protections from said bullying.

There is still no reason not to confront the bully and no violence need be involved.
There's no such thing as social Darwinism in the real world, but if there were, it would sure be a damn sight better than idiot liberalism and government hand-holding.
I'd rather never see it personally.

I am surprised you'd support it.
 
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