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Should Daycare Be Subsidized

Should Daycare Be Subsidized?

  • Yes, Should Be Fixed Price (Quebec)

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Yes, Means-Tested (France)

    Votes: 8 20.0%
  • No, It Should Not Be Subsidized

    Votes: 30 75.0%

  • Total voters
    40
If you don't have the money to care for your child, and there is no place for the child to go (you are wanting to remove subisides) where do you think they will go and how do you think they will get food and shelter?

People who are THAT poor (and they are a very tiny group) should not have children. If you can't care for children, you shouldn't have any. And people who are that irresponsible will not be responsible, even if they get government subsidies.

Do you realize that daycare is a very recent thing. Society managed to exist for a long time without it.
 
I addressed that already, either read or deal with it. You are running in circles now. You have no solution.

No you didn't address that. Day care is someting very recent.
 
No you didn't address that. Day care is someting very recent.

I addressed it by saying those people had welfare. Again you need to actually READ. It's not that hard.
 
So your solution is to spend MORE money than it costs to subsidize daycare. Good plan! NOT.
Prisons are cheap to build. And yes, I prefer that to endless hand outs to people that cant control themselves.
Define subsidize as well.
I bet we can find common ground, but I am not paying for people to sit at home.
There has to be a clear and verified work and or job search or full time student status. BEFORE we start subsidizing.
Not you work as the OP, but want cheaper day care.
Heck, I want cheaper insurance, rent, gas, food. And I have been paying taxes since I was 16. Thats 34 years of taxpaying. For what? To watch my tax dollars being pissed away.
 
People who are THAT poor (and they are a very tiny group) should not have children. If you can't care for children, you shouldn't have any. And people who are that irresponsible will not be responsible, even if they get government subsidies.

Do you realize that daycare is a very recent thing. Society managed to exist for a long time without it.

Again, saying they SHOULDN'T have children doesn't mean they won't. You are just trying to close your eyes with your fingers in your ear yelling "LALALALA".

Sorry, but the reality is people WILL have children they can't afford, so how do you deal with it. That's what I'm addressing.

You are saying what SHOULD happen, I'm addressing what DOES happen.
 
I addressed it by saying those people had welfare. Again you need to actually READ. It's not that hard.

No, they didn't. Welfare is very new too. You really are extremely shortsighted.
 
Prisons are cheap to build. And yes, I prefer that to endless hand outs to people that cant control themselves.
Define subsidize as well.
I bet we can find common ground, but I am not paying for people to sit at home.
There has to be a clear and verified work and or job search or full time student status. BEFORE we start subsidizing.
Not you work as the OP, but want cheaper day care.
Heck, I want cheaper insurance, rent, gas, food. And I have been paying taxes since I was 16. Thats 34 years of taxpaying. For what? To watch my tax dollars being pissed away.

They are not cheaper than subisidzing daycare sorry.

I have already said welfare should have limits, but it should also address education as well.
 
Again, saying they SHOULDN'T have children doesn't mean they won't. You are just trying to close your eyes with your fingers in your ear yelling "LALALALA".

Sorry, but the reality is people WILL have children they can't afford, so how do you deal with it. That's what I'm addressing.

You are saying what SHOULD happen, I'm addressing what DOES happen.

Reality is that certain people will be alcoholics. Should we susidize that too?
 
So what is your choice force people to stay married? Force people to marry?

Things change and things have changed. So the need to solve problems NOW not live in the past.

Things have not changed as much as you portray. The problems did not happen overnight, and we are not at a crisis point. Nobody is being forced to marry, nor are they being forced to get pregnant. What is being ignored is that the methods used just a generation or so worked just fine. Ignoring that is just irresponsible. We almost divorced a while back, the difference is we cared more about our son than we did about our personal wants. That wasn't forced. We went to a counselor, which did us no good. We went to a different counselor who was brilliant. Turns out most of the problem was my selfishness. I took responsibility and fixed it. That wasn't forced either, and today we are much happier than we have been since we first got married. I am a father and a husband before I am a business owner, rifle instructor and CERN team leader. In other words, I paid a stranger to tell me what I was doing wrong and did what had to be done to fix it. And we are all better for it. From the outside it may not seem possible to give up part of yourself to be more complete, but it works. I would recommend it to anyone.
 
Things have not changed as much as you portray. The problems did not happen overnight, and we are not at a crisis point. Nobody is being forced to marry, nor are they being forced to get pregnant. What is being ignored is that the methods used just a generation or so worked just fine. Ignoring that is just irresponsible. We almost divorced a while back, the difference is we cared more about our son than we did about our personal wants. That wasn't forced. We went to a counselor, which did us no good. We went to a different counselor who was brilliant. Turns out most of the problem was my selfishness. I took responsibility and fixed it. That wasn't forced either, and today we are much happier than we have been since we first got married. I am a father and a husband before I am a business owner, rifle instructor and CERN team leader. In other words, I paid a stranger to tell me what I was doing wrong and did what had to be done to fix it. And we are all better for it. From the outside it may not seem possible to give up part of yourself to be more complete, but it works. I would recommend it to anyone.

I commend you for your actions, but you should be well versed enough to know that not everyone is you and your wife. Sometimes the reasons people get married in the first place are not good ones. Without a good foundation, you and your wife would not have been able to work things out. Many times people simply do not have good foundations to work on a marriage.

Yes, things have changed.
 
it's time to grow up.
You couldn't be more wrong, if everyone followed you and your wife's example, for heavens sake in less than two generations the country would be awash in Conservatives that all took responsibility for their own lives and Lord only knows where that would lead! ;)
 
That is quite possibly the worst idea I have ever heard. The only thing that will lead to is major physical and emotional abuse and serious harm.

Really? Was that what was happening all those years when divorce was frowned upon, and when people were required to take responsibility for their children? I never knew that.
 
Reality is that certain people will be alcoholics. Should we susidize that too?

I know I need a beer.
As long as people are in ACTUAL NEED. I dont have that much issue with it.
But like all entitlement services it would be abused.
Full time student? OK.
Got laid off, need to find work? OK.
But those must be verified. Not just call someone and say "yea, I be lookin' for a job". Or "yea, I be in school".
Job search, transcripts, class schedules.
Not just fill out some paperwork and start collecting a check.
 
What about in the case of medical condition or having non-transferable skills or being older than the desired job candidate?

Now you're just looking for anything to squeak your case by. People need to make sure they keep their skills up to date and applicable, usually industries don't just vanish overnight with no sign beforehand, there's usually lots of notice that there are new things on the horizon and people ought to be prepared. For the others, those only speak to a small percentage of potential cases. Besides, people who are too old are unlikely to need daycare anyhow.
 
Again, saying they SHOULDN'T have children doesn't mean they won't. You are just trying to close your eyes with your fingers in your ear yelling "LALALALA".

Sorry, but the reality is people WILL have children they can't afford, so how do you deal with it. That's what I'm addressing.

You are saying what SHOULD happen, I'm addressing what DOES happen.

By the same token, if you reward something does that not encourage it?
 
Again, you are living in fantasy land. There are problems NOW that need to be solved, you are acting like there are no problems now.

There are problems now brought about by irresponsibility. There is a point at which society has to say, enough is enough and force responsibility on everyone, no matter how many people are potentially harmed by their own doing. We're not acting like there are no problems, we just don't care. We didn't cause the problems, you seem to want us to pay for them.

Hell no.
 
I think people should "earn" their welfare by watching these kids at daycare centers so that other welfare parents can get their ass to work and stop using their kids, and the cost of childcare, as an excuse to not bother.

But that's just me. :)
 
Sure you are you are forcing them on the streets. You can cry absitnence all you want, it won't happen. You can choose to believe people won't have children, that's a fantasy. So you have to deal with the reality people WILL have children they can't afford. So do you want to increase the crime rate with a removal of all subisidies?

This is essentially the "stupid people are stupid" argument, where you demand that we need to take care of stupid people because they are incapable of being anything but stupid, but this is a self-defeating argument. The reason so many people are stupid today is because we've allowed this nation to become so absurdly liberalized that everyone expects freebies from the government, they've abrogated personal responsibility and now, several generations in, lots of people are entirely unaware that there's any such thing.

It's time to teach people otherwise. Americans used to be more responsible. The people haven't changed, it's the government and society that has. They can change back. Liberalism is an abject failure.
 
I think people should "earn" their welfare by watching these kids at daycare centers so that other welfare parents can get their ass to work and stop using their kids, and the cost of childcare, as an excuse to not bother.

But that's just me. :)

They already have that, some welfare mothers do get paid to watch each other's kids but it's a scam. They're getting paid to do things they ought to be doing for themselves and the mothers whose kids are being watched aren't working, they're just sitting home on the couch.
 
I commend you for your actions, but you should be well versed enough to know that not everyone is you and your wife. Sometimes the reasons people get married in the first place are not good ones. Without a good foundation, you and your wife would not have been able to work things out. Many times people simply do not have good foundations to work on a marriage.

Yes, things have changed.

I'm well aware of that. My wife married young the first time and it didn't work out. Her two kids from that marriage are paying for it now. The younger (18) is an emotionally stunted vidiot who will likely never be able to support himself. The older (21) just moved in with us a week ago. He will be living with us for next couple of years (probably) while he goes to school, and I require he hold a part time job in order to stay with us. Our son is doing well.

So I didn't give up on our marriage and son, and am in the process of repairing her oldest who was done no favors by his father. It's progress. Last year her father lived with us for almost a year while we helped him straighten out some issues and get him on track with his health issues. He is out on his own again and taking care of his own kids (long story, second family). So it can be done. It isn't always easy, but it certainly isn't as difficult as I thought it would be either. If we looked to our families to help us when we needed help we might not have to depend on government to do it.

And we are not that special. Anyone can do this. You have to want to and have the tenacity to see it thru.
 
This is essentially the "stupid people are stupid" argument, where you demand that we need to take care of stupid people because they are incapable of being anything but stupid, but this is a self-defeating argument. The reason so many people are stupid today is because we've allowed this nation to become so absurdly liberalized that everyone expects freebies from the government, they've abrogated personal responsibility and now, several generations in, lots of people are entirely unaware that there's any such thing.

It's time to teach people otherwise. Americans used to be more responsible. The people haven't changed, it's the government and society that has. They can change back. Liberalism is an abject failure.

We, as a society, have now reached the point where the "reward for stupidity" exceeds that able to be obtained by working a full time job at the minimum wage.
 
I think people should "earn" their welfare by watching these kids at daycare centers so that other welfare parents can get their ass to work and stop using their kids, and the cost of childcare, as an excuse to not bother.

But that's just me. :)

At the very least what you are suggesting keeps them on a schedule, regulating sleep and eating habits which helps ward off depression. This is the primary reason I require my stepson who is living with us to have a job. It helps him pay for his basic needs, but more importantly it gives him structure.
 
hah ttwtt78640 your comment reminded me of:
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan
 
so lemme get this straight tech30528, because of this wacked out life philosophy you've got, you are not only able to take care of your own family, but the adult children of another family & (are you serious?) the father of the other family? (whew did I get that right?)
see I knew I was right, gawd only knows where things like this would lead. Before you knew it the government gravy train wouldn't have any riders. Don't tell me you go to church on Sundays too ;)
 
Like I said in the reply these are successful families in their late 20s making a fair amount of money they are not mistakes it is the time when people want children. People can't wait to their late 30s and 40s to have children.

Why?

My wife and I did (I was 35 and she was 32 when our first boy was born, I was 40 and she was 37 when our second boy was born, we're not going to have any more kids).

Almost everyone I am/we are friends with fall into that same boat.

I can count on one hand the number of couples we know who were married in their 20s, let alone having kids already.

It doesn't make any sense to me to have kids before you're ready to provide those kids with the best life possible.

Along those lines, it only makes sense to only start having kids after you've completed a graduate degree, established yourself in a career, own your home, etc... Obviously there are varriables to consider here. If you choose a career in the trades you're not going to need a Masters Degree, but you'd probably want to be in a postion where you're able to open your own business or are working in a supervisory capacity before you take the plunge where kids are concerned.
 
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