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Should Daycare Be Subsidized

Should Daycare Be Subsidized?

  • Yes, Should Be Fixed Price (Quebec)

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Yes, Means-Tested (France)

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • No, It Should Not Be Subsidized

    Votes: 30 75.0%
  • Total voters
    40
Mr X said:
Apparently conservatives would prefer educated people be forced to stay at home collecting welfare than being helped back into work via subsidised daycare.
Any good entrepeneur will tell you "you have to spend money to make money".

I don't think the ideas of at least one libertarian in this thread that poor people should be forcibly sterilised in the name of social darwinism, is a viable option.
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Our problem is the exact opposite. It is because we have went above and beyond the whole thing of providing a new subsidy with every new victim you all can create. Today the victims are those who have to pay for their own daycare...tomorrow it will be something else.

Paying people's way does not make things better. No on the contrary they become dependent on government for all their needs and most once addicted to the handouts, never take personal responsibility for their own choices. In fact all the subsidies and entitlement actually take away from people striving to be all they can. Why should they when someone else is willing to pay for it.
 
Mr X said:
Apparently conservatives would prefer educated people be forced to stay at home
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Forced? By whom? :confused:

Any good entrepeneur will tell you "you have to spend money to make money".
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That's the choice that all families with young children face. No one else has an inherent responsibility to care for your children, so your option includes paying someone else to shoulder the responsibility, or fulfilling the responsibility yourself.

I don't think the ideas of at least one libertarian in this thread that poor people should be forcibly sterilised in the name of social darwinism, is a viable option.
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Politically, it is not a viable option. But if liberals get their way and suddenly anyone and everyone can just choose to be supported, as though they too are children, then what will happen is that if the people paying the bills are left with no other options, they'll find ways to control the influx of needy dependents... even eventually by legislative reproductive control measures. It comes with the territory. If you're forced to be the guardian of another, you will ultimately and naturally seek to control its decisions (because those decisions cost YOU).
 
Dapper Andy said:
It isn't beneficial when so much of your generation has to rely on my generation just to pay your bills.
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yanno Andy I'm really beginning to wonder how that's gonna pan out as time goes on.
will you productive young folks balk at the idea of living a far lower standard of life
just so you can support other peoples grandparents and educate and provide daycare for other people's offspring?
does anyone see a problem here hmmm?
 
0bserver92 said:
Should we subsidize the cost of daycare? I was reading a Globe and Mail article (which I can't link to because of the 10 article limit) which talked about the cost of daycare. It was talking about how daycare can cost you 20,000$+ a year thus being a big hit to new families even those making 100,000$+. The couple in the article from Toronto said they spend 13$/day on daycare (fully licensed, nothing fancy daycare) for their child while parents in Quebec can register at government subsidized daycares for 7$/day and there is a waiting list. In France they subsidize daycare and it is means-tested with the lowest price being 50 cents and the highest I think was 13 euros, a day of course. I personally support subsidized daycare as it enables both parents to have successful careers but it is expensive and hard on even the most successful new families, it is not a case of parents that need to make more money or wait but it is just unaffordable and the price needs to be brought down. It also has the benefit of encouraging parents to have more children because they can afford to especially in Quebec where immigration is a problem. I support means-testing as it enables everyone to afford daycare and it avoids waiting lists but Quebec is a nice compromise between the two.
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To be fair, Quebec is not a fair example because they receive billions from the federal government in transfer payments and they use that money to provide a social welfare state. In effect, the people of Ontario, who don't get $7/day daycare and paying for parents in Quebec to get their perk. Secondly, Quebed has an immigration problem because they are an insular, racist society/government that accepts only French speaking newcomers or forces French only education and services on those who come even though the country as a whole is biligual english/french. Nobody who doesn't wish to be ghettoized would move to Quebec.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Cant afford them, dont have them.
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Public daycare should be as widely available as public school. "At risk" women and those who cannot afford to have children should be prescribed a birth control regimen and encouraged to stay on it. Welfare entitlements should be conditioned upon adherence to a prescribed birth control regimen.
 
Sig said:
Welfare entitlements should be conditioned upon adherence to a prescribed birth control regimen.
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yanno the Chinese one child rule could be amended and used here: to dumb to reproduce equals sterilization
I think there was a buncha folks back in the early 40's that had similar ideas?
 
CanadaJohn said:
To be fair, Quebec is not a fair example because they receive billions from the federal government in transfer payments and they use that money to provide a social welfare state. In effect, the people of Ontario, who don't get $7/day daycare and paying for parents in Quebec to get their perk. Secondly, Quebed has an immigration problem because they are an insular, racist society/government that accepts only French speaking newcomers or forces French only education and services on those who come even though the country as a whole is biligual english/french. Nobody who doesn't wish to be ghettoized would move to Quebec.
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Do you know Ontario is a have not province aswell? Quebec may receive the most money but doesn't benefit as much as other provinces who receive less money but has much more affect.You have the right to English language education in Quebec if you were taught English in Canada. That is also the reason private schools are popular it gets around the language rule. Equalization payments exist to prevent having what the Southern States are in the U.S. underfunded therefore provide horrible public services. The provinces are monolingual officially expect New Brunswick and Ontario is not officially bilingual just likes to be. No one forces Quebec to teach in English like no one forces Alberta to teach in French. I speak both languages so I'm fine. I want to live in Quebec mainly because that's where a lot of the jobs are for me.
 
afr0byte said:
I suppose you're against public education too?
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yes if you want your child ruined, with no chance of life success then send em to the 'free schools'.
cuz everyone knows: you get what you pay for.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Happened here a few years ago. Then crashed and most people homes were valued less than what they still owed on them.
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Only because people were idiots and bought houses they couldn't afford at prices they couldn't afford to pay. Those of us who didn't have no problems whatsoever, in fact it inflated the value of my home well over a million dollars.
 
CRUE CAB said:
But you want other people to pay for your kids day care.
The worlds economy is not our doing by the way.
Our housing market did not make Greece, France, Italy go damn near belly up.
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In fact, liberalism and socialism did.
 
0bserver92 said:
If you pay for daycare there is more money for them to spend on other things. Daycare is a ginat expense for new parents.
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Hey, at that rate, why not open your own daycare? Taking care of 6-8 kids for 8 hours a day, at $20k a pop, that's more than the $100k you say they're earning in the first place.
 
0bserver92 said:
Do you know Ontario is a have not province aswell? Quebec may receive the most money but doesn't benefit as much as other provinces who receive less money but has much more affect.You have the right to English language education in Quebec if you were taught English in Canada. That is also the reason private schools are popular it gets around the language rule. Equalization payments exist to prevent having what the Southern States are in the U.S. underfunded therefore provide horrible public services. The provinces are monolingual officially expect New Brunswick and Ontario is not officially bilingual just likes to be. No one forces Quebec to teach in English like no one forces Alberta to teach in French. I speak both languages so I'm fine. I want to live in Quebec mainly because that's where a lot of the jobs are for me.
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Ontario isn't a "have not province" - we do receive some equalization payments under the formula, basically because of the incompetence of our Liberal government over the past decade, however, we are still by far a net contributor to the federal treasury and our taxes and taxes from western provinces go to fun provinces like Quebec. Newfoundland, as an example, has moved towards more self-dependence yet Quebec, with natural resources not being exploited, prefers to live off the rest of the country. Perhaps Quebec is still hoping to one day split from Canada so they are saving their resource base for that dream.
 
Mr X said:
Forced sterilisation of poor people? F*** off.
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No, forced responsibility. I know that doesn't make any sense to you socialist types.
 
Gipper said:
I'm not sure day care usually costs 360 a month.
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From personal experience, we used to pay about $800 a month for two kids, that's $400 per kid, or about $4800 a year. This is what happens when liberals cherry pick absurd numbers to make their idiotic arguments seem more reasonable.
 
Cephus said:
Hey, at that rate, why not open your own daycare? Taking care of 6-8 kids for 8 hours a day, at $20k a pop, that's more than the $100k you say they're earning in the first place.
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We've already proposed that.

He's waiting for a CEO position to open up someplace.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
yanno the Chinese one child rule could be amended and used here: to dumb to reproduce equals sterilization
I think there was a buncha folks back in the early 40's that had similar ideas?
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Compulsory sterilization is a bit extreme. The better way to go would be to provide financial incentives for welfare class women to adhere to a birth control regimen and to offer free tubal ligations etc. upon request.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Ontario isn't a "have not province" - we do receive some equalization payments under the formula, basically because of the incompetence of our Liberal government over the past decade, however, we are still by far a net contributor to the federal treasury and our taxes and taxes from western provinces go to fun provinces like Quebec. Newfoundland, as an example, has moved towards more self-dependence yet Quebec, with natural resources not being exploited, prefers to live off the rest of the country. Perhaps Quebec is still hoping to one day split from Canada so they are saving their resource base for that dream.
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That was part of the campaign during their elections it apparently turns out they weren't getting very much revenue form the natural resource business that was going on in the first place and the Libérals said they would change that but of course they lost the election. Most people in Quebec don't really realize it has very many natural resources. The mining companies are based there but don't mine there.
 
0bserver92 said:
It's not the best survey and like I said before that's for the entirety of Canada not cities like Toronto.
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So what you're saying is that only idiots live in Toronto? It would seem so if they put up with costs 4x higher than the rest of the nation.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
yanno the Chinese one child rule could be amended and used here: to dumb to reproduce equals sterilization

I think there was a buncha folks back in the early 40's that had similar ideas?
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It has nothing to do with intelligence or forced sterilization. If you have demonstrated an inability to support yourself in your current circumstances such that you qualify for and accept welfare, you have more than demonstrated an inability to care for a new addition to your family on top of it. And because children have a fundamental right not to be neglected, the contingency of birth control attached to state financial support makes 100% rational sense.
 
0bserver92 said:
What do you think we want those educated people for? We wnat them so they can work and having expensive daycare forces either debt, a parent top stay home, etc/ which is a place they do not benefit the community.
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We want them to work so they can pump that money into the economy. So if the government is going to pay for daycare, that money has to come from somewhere and that's going to be taxes, thus making the entire reason we want people to work irrelevant in the first place!

Don't you liberals have the ability to think about these things?
 
Cephus said:
So what you're saying is that only idiots live in Toronto? It would seem so if they put up with costs 4x higher than the rest of the nation.
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They practically pay 10x the cost for housing because Toronto is where the jobs are and is the 4th largest city in North America. If there is almost anything going on in Canada it's probably in Toronto or has something to do with it.
 
Cephus said:
So what you're saying is that only idiots live in Toronto? It would seem so if they put up with costs 4x higher than the rest of the nation.
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As a resident of Toronto, I can defend us and say that we're not idiots - we love our city, it's the best city in the world - it is, however, also one of the most expensive places to live on the planet.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Ontario isn't a "have not province" - we do receive some equalization payments under the formula, basically because of the incompetence of our Liberal government over the past decade, however, we are still by far a net contributor to the federal treasury and our taxes and taxes from western provinces go to fun provinces like Quebec. Newfoundland, as an example, has moved towards more self-dependence yet Quebec, with natural resources not being exploited, prefers to live off the rest of the country. Perhaps Quebec is still hoping to one day split from Canada so they are saving their resource base for that dream.
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CJ, doesn't that come up for a vote regularly? Why do they wish to secede? It sounds like they haven't figured out what they want! :shock:
 
0bserver92 said:
They practically pay 10x the cost for housing because Toronto is where the jobs are and is the 4th largest city in North America. If there is almost anything going on in Canada it's probably in Toronto or has something to do with it.
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So like I said, morons. And you're basing your entire argument on a single extreme. Anyone who doesn't want to pay that much just has to move. You just don't bother mentioning that you're using the extremes as the entire basis for your argument.

Blatant dishonesty, it's the liberal way.
 
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