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Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

Is atheism a religion


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Re: Is atheism a religion

You see. I do not think you quite understand agnosticism or atheism. At least it did not sound that way. Maybe you would like to explain briefly, what you think it is that I misunderstand? That would be cool.

You're incorrect.

I suggested you look immediately above you so that you could see me explain this about 10 times. Oh well.

Agnosticism is about what knowledge is possible to acquire.

Atheism is about the knowledge we already have (or don't have, as the case may be).
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Look, just wiki it, alright? You don't have to be a biologist with thirty years under your belt to get the gist of it.
:lamo

I understand the 'gist' of it. The magic mutation occurs, and it transforms the species. The mutation isnt bred out, dominant DNA doesnt correct the mutation, but rather it causes the entire genus to transform. Time and scope...right? And the science is 'proven'? Just as the science behind the evolution of complex organs? That must be why it is no longer called 'theory'.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Macro evolution is just micro evolution plus time and/or scale. Macro evolution has actually been observed in real time as well. But even if that weren't the case, it isn't necessary in the face of other overwhelming evidence.

You see to be having a problem with the idea of complex organs. What you don't get is that organs don't simply start that way. They start as something simpler, and the bells and whistles get added as time passes.

Just because you cannot picture what a million $1 bills would look like does not mean it is impossible to have a million $1 bills. Likewise, just because you cannot picture time scale does not mean it doesn't exist.
You DID Wiki it! Thats funny right there!!!
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

:lamo

I understand the 'gist' of it. The magic -

Aaaand I stopped reading there. If you won't spend fifteen minutes reading a damn wiki entry that would at least elevate you from making a complete ass out of yourself, then have some self respect and stop commenting on the subject.

As a "fan of science" surely you can appreciate that.
 
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Re: Is atheism a religion

It's known that all matter radiated out from a single point.
Thats a buttload of 'matter'. Where did it all come from? What was that force that caused the bang and transformed...what...a vacuum...no...wait...a world of dark matter...right? into...planets, stars, life. Its a great theory. One you can really believe in.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

No "gotcha" intended, I asked you a serious question so no need to get offended.

Perhaps, rather than just claiming that everyone else is an idiot, it's just that dictionary definitions take precedence over the musings of the bluestocking crowd of philosophers. That doesn't come down to ignorance so much as prioritization.

Academically, I can see how there is a difference between the claim that there is a lack of evidence in which to believe something and a claim that something simply doesn't exist.

Practically and in the real world, however, such a distinction does not exist. Like I told you before, the human mind doesn't work that way. You either believe that god/gods exist, or you don't... and you make your best judgement based on your past and on the evidence you've examined.

Belief does not equal certainty. Neither does belief require absolute proof.

Well, then I suggest you check your dictionary.

Merriam-Webster, agnostic:

: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

You see the bolded part there? This is what makes it a totally different subject from atheism. Atheism itself has no opinion about whether or not the nature of deities is knowable.

Such a distinction absolutely exists so long as the person contemplating it is intelligent enough to understand it.

There are plenty of ways a deity-like entity or system could potentially work that can't be excluded, and there are also millions of non-described possible deities that can't be excluded either.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Aaaand I stopped reading there. If you won't spend fifteen minutes reading a damn wiki entry that would at least elevate you from making a complete ass out of yourself, then have some self respect and stop commenting on the subject.

As a "fan of science" surely you can appreciate that much.
Do you realize how many theories there have been and still are one the hows and whys of 'mutation'? Solely on the 'mutations' that led to eyes, ears, etc?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Thats a buttload of 'matter'.

I guess. We don't exactly have other universes to compare it to. But bigger than a bread box? Sure.

Where did it all come from?

I've told you what is known, which is that all matter radiated from a single point. If there was a strong scientific theory for where it came from I would have said so.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

You are lazy period. You arent 'curious'...you just wait for some form of proof to be given to you by others. That is the ultimate in lazy. And if you think science is all about trying to prove a hypothesis 'wrong' I suggest you spend a little time in the universities. Theorists are driven to be 'right', not 'wrong'. Evolutionists didnt set to prove why NOT...they set out to prove how so. Read any of the literature on the theory of the evolutionary development of complex organs.

And on those things where there is no proven science...well...it must be an interesting life to be completely vapid, waiting for someone to give you 'proof'.

Yes...the definitions and delineations of an 'atheist' are evolving...arent they? Read the descriptions on atheists.org and you will see that evolution in action. Its rather schizophrenic...you are...but you arent...but...you are. Religion? I particularly like this comment..."Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."


Well actually, I have done some reading on the points you suggest. And yes a lot of secondary science does read as if it were trying to prove and not trying to disprove. That does not mean that is good science. It means a lot of science is argued back-assed. I remember a book by Dawkins, where he acts as tough he proves Theism wrong with evolution. It was, scientifically speaking, a farce.
Anyway, it seems quite silly to want to prove things generally. Of course you can prove something within the context. But the God thing seems to be extra contextual, so to speak.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Do you realize how many theories there have been and still are one the hows and whys of 'mutation'? Solely on the 'mutations' that led to eyes, ears, etc?

Since you've demonstrated that you don't know the definition of scientific theory (which you could, you know, look up, but I guess that's crazy talk, right?) everything about the above sentence is extremely suspect.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Since you've demonstrated that you don't know what the definition of a scientific theory (which you could, you know, look up, but I guess that's crazy talk, right?) everything about the above sentence is extremely suspect.
That fits your normal response train.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Well, then I suggest you check your dictionary.

Merriam-Webster, agnostic:



You see the bolded part there? This is what makes it a totally different subject from atheism. Atheism itself has no opinion about whether or not the nature of deities is knowable.

Such a distinction absolutely exists so long as the person contemplating it is intelligent enough to understand it.

There are plenty of ways a deity-like entity or system could potentially work that can't be excluded, and there are also millions of non-described possible deities that can't be excluded either.

Did you really just use the dictionary definition of the word "agnostic" to try to prove why your definition of "atheist" is correct, all while saying that atheism and agnosticism are "totally different subjects?"

So, if they're mutually exclusive, how is the definition of the one going to support your assertion of the definition of the other?

And what you're describing here sounds an awful lot like an agnostic viewpoint :shrug:: "There are plenty of ways a deity-like entity or system could potentially work that can't be excluded, and there are also millions of non-described possible deities that can't be excluded either."
 
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Re: Is atheism a religion

I guess. We don't exactly have other universes to compare it to. But bigger than a bread box? Sure.



I've told you what is known, which is that all matter radiated from a single point. If there was a strong scientific theory for where it came from I would have said so.
I GET the theory. And its a GREAT theory...lots of work to be done, still to be done. But its a great theory. Something to 'believe' in. For now.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

That fits your normal response train.

Well you've sort of brought this discussion to a stand still with your deliberate ignorance. You refuse to take five minutes to educate yourself on the meanings of scientific theory or the scientific method, you won't read up on what the Big Bang is, and you refuse to take fifteen minutes to read up on evolution so you stop making a complete fool of yourself. There's nowhere to go from here.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Did you really just use the dictionary definition of the word "agnostic" to try to prove why your definition of "atheist" is correct, all while saying that atheism and agnosticism are "totally different subjects?"

So, if they're totally different, how is the definition of one evidence of the definition of the other?

And from what you're describing here, it sounds an awful lot like an agnostic viewpoint :shrug:: "There are plenty of ways a deity-like entity or system could potentially work that can't be excluded, and there are also millions of non-described possible deities that can't be excluded either."

Your claim is that the dictionary doesn't reflect the true subject matter of agnosticism. I just proved you wrong.

No, it is NOT an agnostic claim. Read the part I bolded again.

I have not said that that such possible deities are unknowable. I have simply said there are lots of possibilities.

I have no reason to believe any of them at this time. That is what makes me an atheist.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Well you've sort of brought this discussion to a stand still with your deliberate ignorance. You refuse to take five minutes to educate yourself on the meanings of scientific theory or the scientific method, you won't read up on what the Big Bang is, and you refuse to take fifteen minutes to read up on evolution so you stop making a complete fool of yourself. There's nowhere to go from here.
Funny...thats your normal response to the questions you cant/wont answer-make a snotty snarky comment.

I suppose thats what you mean by "On likeDonkey Kong"...
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Your claim is that the dictionary doesn't reflect the true subject matter of agnosticism. I just proved you wrong..

What? When did I claim that the dictionary was wrong about agnosticism? You must be mixing me up with someone else.

No, it is NOT an agnostic claim. Read the part I bolded again.

I have not said that that such possible deities are unknowable. I have simply said there are lots of possibilities.

I have no reason to believe any of them at this time. That is what makes me an atheist.

If you don't believe that you don't have any reason to believe them.... then you don't believe them. The distinction is practically nonexistent. That was my point.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

You're incorrect.

I suggested you look immediately above you so that you could see me explain this about 10 times. Oh well.

Agnosticism is about what knowledge is possible to acquire.

Atheism is about the knowledge we already have (or don't have, as the case may be).


Are you implying that atheists are idiots? After all we have no knowledge of the final things, without which we have no basis on which to build knowledge. In other words we have only contextual knowledge and can only make assumptions on things outside the context. This is what the agnostic thinks about deities. We can only believe, not know.
We just do not know and do not have any basis on which to assume we can know other than the possibility that we discover something that gives us a hitherto unknown basis.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

What? When did I claim that the dictionary was wrong about agnosticism? You must be mixing me up with someone else.

You claimed these terms outside of some locked-in philosophical society are different, and that the dictionary reflected these supposed totally different meanings. You're wrong.

If you don't believe that you don't have any reason to believe them.... then you don't believe them. The distinction is practically nonexistent. That was my point.

Do you understand the difference between asking if something can be known and asking if something IS known?

It is not a subtle difference. They are not even the same subject.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

So can any atheists answer the question of if they believe there is no god? Or if they believe there is? Or if they believe they don't know?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Are you implying that atheists are idiots? After all we have no knowledge of the final things, without which we have no basis on which to build knowledge. In other words we have only contextual knowledge and can only make assumptions on things outside the context. This is what the agnostic thinks about deities. We can only believe, not know.
We just do not know and do not have any basis on which to assume we can know other than the possibility that we discover something that gives us a hitherto unknown basis.

No. I'm an atheist.

No, that is NOT what an agnostic thinks about deities, because agnosticism has NOTHING TO DO with what you think about deities. Let's try this again.

You can be an agnostic atheist, meaning you don't have reason to believe deities exist, AND you think such knowledge is impossible to acquire.

OR you can be an agnostic THEIST, meaning you believe deities exist, but you think true knowledge of such is impossible.

Whether or not I think it is possible to acquire knowledge of deities is irrelevant to the fact that, at present, there is no evidence, and thus no reason to believe.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

A lack of belief is not a belief. Atheism is not a religion or a belief.

Now, if you want to define religion as being exclusively Judeo-Christian, as many are want to do, I'd agree atheism isn't a religion.

Don't you realize your misuse of the language? Lack of a belief is a belief. You believe there is no God... OK, prove there's no God.... Your belief is an ideology. Religion is a subset of ideology.
 
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Re: Is atheism a religion

So can any atheists answer the question of if they believe there is no god? Or if they believe there is? Or if they believe they don't know?

All you have to do is go back and read the clarifications of their positions. If people have stopped responding to you they're probably figuring that if you won't read the dozens of past explanations then you probably have no intention of reading them now. Just sayin'.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Funny...thats your normal response to the questions you cant/wont answer-make a snotty snarky comment.

I suppose thats what you mean by "On likeDonkey Kong"...

No, I got what I needed. You're so anti-science that you feel more comfortable not knowing what it is.
 
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