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Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

Is atheism a religion

  • Total voters
    119
Re: Is atheism a religion

Manc Skipper said:
That's very vague. "All manner of things" is anything and nothing. What do you mean by faith? Belief despite evidence to the contrary?
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Thats very...telling. :lamo
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Cephus said:
Of course, that's not the question you asked.
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You read the rest of the thread? OldWorldOrder's argument only works when you define religion as "any belief, lack of belief or rejection of belief is a religion."

That's why I made the other poll. His argument is completely idiotic in that it devalues religion to the point that rejection of wearing Orange Socks on Wednesdays is a religion to classify atheism as a religion.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
Atheism IS a baseless position. Its a rather foolish position to boot. You dont believe in God. Fine What DO you believe in? What is your foundation of faith (theory) on the origin of the cosmos and the creation of all things?
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It isn't a position. It's simply the default state of mind in the face of zero evidence for the existence of deities.

I don't "believe" anything about those things. I pay attention to the scientific discourse that's happening. If something is overwhelmingly proven, then I accept it. When it comes to things that are still very theoretical, I am quite happy to wait for more evidence. I am perfectly fine with simply not knowing the answer to something, if there is as of yet no answer to be had.

I accept that the planet is round. I accept evolution. And I await further evidence about the specific mode of abiogenesis, and the structure of our universe.

I pick the things I accept based on reason and evidence, not "faith."
 
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Is atheism a religion

SmokeAndMirrors said:
It isn't a position. It's simply the default state of mind in the face of zero evidence for the existence of deities.

I don't "believe" anything about those things. I pay attention to the scientific discourse that's happening. If something is overwhelmingly proven, then I accept it. When it comes to things that are still very theoretical, I am quite happy to wait for more evidence. I am perfectly fine with simply not knowing the answer to something, if there is as of yet no answer to be had.

I accept that the planet is round. I accept evolution. And I await further evidence about the specific mode abiogenesis, and the structure of our universe.

I pick the things I accept based on reason and evidence, not "faith."
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perfect. Good on you. You only know what others have proven and have no faith. I'm guessing love is nothing but a biochemical evolutionary drive. Glad that all works for you.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
perfect. Good on you. You only know what others have proven and have no faith. I'm guessing love is nothing but a biochemical evolutionary drive. Glad that all works for you.
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Ah, yes. When you have nothing left to defend yourself with, it's ole' "atheists are sad, miserable losers who see the world in a flat and lifeless, mechanical way" personal attack.

Love certainly makes a lot of sense for a social species. But I fail to see why this matters in the context of my own life. I am allowed to feel however I like.

And furthermore, I actually find it sad that you see no beauty in the natural world. That you don't find it remarkable that our brains are complex enough to render something as vivid as love. That you find not knowing too scary to even admit to, rather than finding adventure in it, and the mystery that exists in reality and in science.

I think your view -- a simplistic tribal story explains all of reality, and believing things blindly is better than seeking answers and being surprised at what they are -- is the one that is flat and lifeless.
 
Is atheism a religion

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Ah, yes. When you have nothing left to defend yourself with, it's ole' "atheists are sad, miserable losers who see the world in a flat and lifeless, mechanical way" personal attack.

Love certainly makes a lot of sense for a social species. But I fail to see why this matters in the context of my own life. I am allowed to feel however I like.

And furthermore, I actually find it sad that you see no beauty in the natural world. That you don't find it remarkable that our brains are complex enough to render something as vivid as love. That you find not knowing too scary to even admit to, rather than finding adventure in it, and the mystery that exists in reality and in science.

I think your view -- a simplistic tribal story explains all of reality, and believing things blindly is better than seeking answers and being surprised at what they are -- is the one that is flat and lifeless.
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It's funny you think I am trying to or care to 'defend' anything. You on the other hand...well...Fraziers wife comes to mind. That's passion right there baby. "Our genetic makeup indicates we would make adequate partners to procreate for the logical intent of furthering the species". It's a pretty speech about the brain and love...but it's just a theory...and not like you actually believe it.

It's also comical that you find your position 'superior'. You know...that whole "I know and believe in nothin unless someone else does the work to prove it" thing. Impressive.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
It's funny you think I am trying to or care to 'defend' anything. You on the other hand...well...Fraziers wife comes to mind. That's passion right there baby. "Our genetic makeup indicates we would make adequate partners to procreate for the logical intent of furthering the species". It's a pretty speech about the brain and love...but it's just a theory...and not like you actually believe it.

It's also comical that you find your position 'superior'. You know...that whole "I know and believe in nothin unless someone else does the work to prove it" thing. Impressive.
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The irony of this, from someone who lets some guy in a robe tell him what reality is, is just too much.

But besides that, you're the one with a fear of not having all the answers, not me.

The argument you just made, by way of trying to attach some kind of shame to exploring the work of others, is an argument against learning. :lol:

Do you read what you type?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Notice it gives two definitions and you choose to believe only one of them: the one that suits you.

You're incorrect. Agnosticism is a completely different subject. Atheism and agnosticism are not part of a continuum.

Agnosticism is addressing the question of what kind of knowledge is possible. Atheism is not. It is only addressing what knowledge we have. For the overwhelming majority of atheist, that conclusion is that there is presently no reason to believe in a deity -- the positive claims made by theists. It is not that we can make a positive claim that there are no deities for certain.
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You're getting better.

That was well-worded and thought out.

Although... question: if the majority of atheists conclude that there is no reason to believe in a diety, I would like to know what the remaining minority believe. By process of elimination, do they, therefore, believe that there is a reason to believe in a diety?

What makes them atheists, then? And who are these people?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

DiAnna said:
A lack of belief is not a belief. Atheism is not a religion or a belief.
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True. I had not differentiated that. Is it only belief, do you believe?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Most atheists don't believe that no god exists.

They simply don't believe claims made by the religious, because there's no evidence for them.

Rejecting someone else's positive claim is not a belief.
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I would have thought that not believing for lack of proof was agnostic and rejecting someone else's positive claim without evidence poor science. But it is very sound skepticism.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

SmokeAndMirrors said:
The irony of this, from someone who lets some guy in a robe tell him what reality is, is just too much.

But besides that, you're the one with a fear of not having all the answers, not me.

The argument you just made, by way of trying to attach some kind of shame to exploring the work of others, is an argument against learning. :lol:

Do you read what you type?
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Against learning you say? Pah...foolishness. Some of the most learned people throughout history have been people of faith. Likewise some of the most blind and ignorant people on the planet are those that put their blind faith in theories. They claim a 'belief in evolution...but how many of them actually UNDERSTAND evolution or can even BEGIN to explain the macro-evolutionary theories? How many people seize a belief in the Big Bang as the 'real' act of creation? Indeed...its comical to watch them say Hah! You believe in a God? Not me...I believe in SCIENCE!...and then not have the first ****ing clue as to what they actually believe. You dont do that. You believe in nothing unless it is proven. So...in your scientific master...you know and believe in 'nothing' re the origins of the cosmos. You cant...because of course...it isnt 'proven'.

And the love part...that is just...the best.

I understand completely Agnostics. I dont believe in atheists. Atheists are typically bitter angry hate filled little trolls that attack others of 'faith'. The irony is how truly little they know and how easily they manipulate their own beliefs.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
Against learning you say? Pah...foolishness. Some of the most learned people throughout history have been people of faith. Likewise some of the most blind and ignorant people on the planet are those that put their blind faith in theories. They claim a 'belief in evolution...but how many of them actually UNDERSTAND evolution or can even BEGIN to explain the macro-evolutionary theories? How many people seize a belief in the Big Bang as the 'real' act of creation? Indeed...its comical to watch them say Hah! You believe in a God? Not me...I believe in SCIENCE!...and then not have the first ****ing clue as to what they actually believe. You dont do that. You believe in nothing unless it is proven. So...in your scientific master...you know and believe in 'nothing' re the origins of the cosmos. You cant...because of course...it isnt 'proven'.

And the love part...that is just...the best.

I understand completely Agnostics. I dont believe in atheists. Atheists are typically bitter angry hate filled little trolls that attack others of 'faith'. The irony is how truly little they know and how easily they manipulate their own beliefs.
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Someone who cleaves to a bronze-age fairy tale as foundational to their exstence needs to grow a thicker skin.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Manc Skipper said:
Someone who cleaves to a bronze-age fairy tale as foundational to their exstence needs to grow a thicker skin.
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My skin is just fine...but its very funny to see how thin others gets when their own (rather glaring) inconsistencies get pointed out.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

obvious Child said:
You read the rest of the thread? OldWorldOrder's argument only works when you define religion as "any belief, lack of belief or rejection of belief is a religion."

That's why I made the other poll. His argument is completely idiotic in that it devalues religion to the point that rejection of wearing Orange Socks on Wednesdays is a religion to classify atheism as a religion.
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If you were wearing orange socks on Wednesdays as part of a symbol about a belief that a deity exists or doesn't exist, it becomes a religious custom.

Are you upset to be lumped in with theists?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
Against learning you say? Pah...foolishness. Some of the most learned people throughout history have been people of faith. Likewise some of the most blind and ignorant people on the planet are those that put their blind faith in theories. They claim a 'belief in evolution...but how many of them actually UNDERSTAND evolution or can even BEGIN to explain the macro-evolutionary theories? How many people seize a belief in the Big Bang as the 'real' act of creation? Indeed...its comical to watch them say Hah! You believe in a God? Not me...I believe in SCIENCE!...and then not have the first ****ing clue as to what they actually believe. You dont do that. You believe in nothing unless it is proven. So...in your scientific master...you know and believe in 'nothing' re the origins of the cosmos. You cant...because of course...it isnt 'proven'.

And the love part...that is just...the best.

I understand completely Agnostics. I dont believe in atheists. Atheists are typically bitter angry hate filled little trolls that attack others of 'faith'. The irony is how truly little they know and how easily they manipulate their own beliefs.
Click to expand...

Are you really criticising atheists for having faith? :lol:
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Peter Grimm said:
Although... question: if the majority of atheists conclude that there is no reason to believe in a diety, I would like to know what the remaining minority believe. By process of elimination, do they, therefore, believe that there is a reason to believe in a diety?
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Some lack a belief that there is a deity. They're people who practice inductive reasoning and don't form beliefs except from evidence, adn they've found no evidence to form a belief in such a thing existing.

Others believe that there is no deity, generally by process of elimination. They don't lack any belief, they have a belief, and that belief is that it is demonstratable that there are no gods.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

The original poll question was "Is atheism a religion"
Religion and Faith are very different things.
A person could be very religious, while having a complete lack of faith.
It could be said that serial killers are religious people, in that they repeatably
practice what they believe.
But we are not talking about individuals, rather group behavior.
For the sake of the discussion, a religion could be any gathering of individuals
with shared beliefs. This is different than common interest, like a club.
A belief is different than knowledge, in that it is an abstract and can be based
on an accumulation of experience, or nothing at all, and everything in between.
When a group promotes their beliefs, beyond their group, they become a missionary
for those beliefs.
When a group enlist government to coerce a set of beliefs to the exclusion of other
sets of beliefs, That is a state religion!
It really does not matter what the belief is, only that it limits peoples freedom
to practice their beliefs as they want.
In this respect atheism is indeed a religion.
They just do most of the missionary work in the courtroom.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Peter Grimm said:
You're getting better.

That was well-worded and thought out.

Although... question: if the majority of atheists conclude that there is no reason to believe in a diety, I would like to know what the remaining minority believe. By process of elimination, do they, therefore, believe that there is a reason to believe in a diety?

What makes them atheists, then? And who are these people?
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You are failing to differentiate "no reason to believe in a deity" from "there is no deity".

"No reason to believe in a deity" does not equal "there is no deity." So if you reread her post you will see that she is implying that the minority are those that claim that there is no deity for certain - which renders your questions in the last line of your post moot since they are derived from your misinterpretation (straw man?)
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

spud_meister said:
Are you really criticising atheists for having faith? :lol:
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No no. Merely pointing out their blatant hypocrisy when directing scorn towards those that have faith. And particularly, in this instance, an individual that quite directly stated she does not deal in such things as 'faith', only scientifically proven 'fact'...until it is convenient.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

joG said:
I would have thought that not believing for lack of proof was agnostic and rejecting someone else's positive claim without evidence poor science. But it is very sound skepticism.
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Please read my posts immediately around you to see why this is incorrect. Alternatively, spend some time reading about what agnosticism actually is.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Peter Grimm said:
You're getting better.

That was well-worded and thought out.

Although... question: if the majority of atheists conclude that there is no reason to believe in a diety, I would like to know what the remaining minority believe. By process of elimination, do they, therefore, believe that there is a reason to believe in a diety?

What makes them atheists, then? And who are these people?
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As if you know a damn thing in the world about it. :lol:

Anyway, yours is a pretty lame attempt at a "gotcha." You already know that in casual society people who assert there is no deity are still called atheists, although they didn't used to be in proper philosophy. Philosophy has tried to sort of adjust to this, since the battle of the meaning of English words is already lost, by inventing the terms "positive atheist" and "gnostic atheist" and others.

So, in other words, people like you just don't know what words mean, and yet have this urge to assert ignorant opinions about it. It's the same reason people now believe that agnosticism means "I don't know if there are deities" and people think nihilism is either being emo or believing nothing exists. People are just phenomenally ignorant about philosophy.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Please read my posts immediately around you to see why this is incorrect. Alternatively, spend some time reading about what agnosticism actually is.
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I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
No no. Merely pointing out their blatant hypocrisy when directing scorn towards those that have faith. And particularly, in this instance, an individual that quite directly stated she does not deal in such things as 'faith', only scientifically proven 'fact'...until it is convenient.
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Don't call it 'hypocracy' but only poor thinking.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

VanceMack said:
Against learning you say? Pah...foolishness. Some of the most learned people throughout history have been people of faith. Likewise some of the most blind and ignorant people on the planet are those that put their blind faith in theories. They claim a 'belief in evolution...but how many of them actually UNDERSTAND evolution or can even BEGIN to explain the macro-evolutionary theories? How many people seize a belief in the Big Bang as the 'real' act of creation? Indeed...its comical to watch them say Hah! You believe in a God? Not me...I believe in SCIENCE!...and then not have the first ****ing clue as to what they actually believe. You dont do that. You believe in nothing unless it is proven. So...in your scientific master...you know and believe in 'nothing' re the origins of the cosmos. You cant...because of course...it isnt 'proven'.

And the love part...that is just...the best.

I understand completely Agnostics. I dont believe in atheists. Atheists are typically bitter angry hate filled little trolls that attack others of 'faith'. The irony is how truly little they know and how easily they manipulate their own beliefs.
Click to expand...

Dude... do you understand what you argued? None of that first block of text addresses it. I wasn't talking about whether religious people can learn. Good lord...

You're attempting to attach a notion of shame to benefiting from the knowledge acquired by others, rather than oneself.

This means you are arguing against learning. :lol:

What is wrong with me not asserting some baseless, ignorant opinion about something where no one knows what the answer is? I think it's a virtue not to make baseless claims.

You have no idea what the hell either an agnostic or an atheist are, and you refuse to learn because then you might have to deal with the fact that your feelings about atheists are pretty obviously projection. Look at how angry you are that I have the audacity to not believe things baselessly.

At least you're consistent. You argue against learning, and even seem to reject it yourself, personally.
 
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