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Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 13 18.8%
  • No.

    Votes: 51 73.9%
  • Don't know.

    Votes: 5 7.2%

  • Total voters
    69
There should not be any "bailout" option. The city government created this mess and if the citizens want to save their city it is up to them it do it themselves.

The city government, obviously comprised of greed-suckers, created the devastation, but your solution is to thrust the burden upon he innocent people to pull themselves out.
 
I said no, because "bailouts" don't work anymore. Now, if the government could be trusted to find the right people to resurrect Detroit's industry, then I'd support it.
 
The city government, obviously comprised of greed-suckers, created the devastation, but your solution is to thrust the burden upon he innocent people to pull themselves out.

Innocent? Who VOTED those "greed-suckers" into office? Take some responsibility. That's one of the problems with our current society, no one accepts any responsibility for the negative results of things they helped create.

I've watched some of the "documentaries" about Detroit, showing town hall meetings. All I saw was people crying "gimme gimme gimme" while the government representatives kept saying "we don't have the tax base anymore." No compromise, no solutions, just a lot of demands.

Well, you made your bed now lie in it! Or else get up and out of it and REMAKE it. Very simple, facing reality and dealing with it.
 
With respect to the pensioners --was Detroit's mismanagement their fault?

If Goldman Sachs can get 100 cents on the dollar and it was their fault, I think we can find away to restructure debt and allow those who did their part to get what is owed.

Detroit mismanagement was the fault of those living there, including those with unfunded pensions. Even if not, it was certainly not my fault. Let them figure it out on their own, or not.

I feel the same way about Goldman Sachs, AIG, GM and Chrysler. and the banks.
 
Innocent? Who VOTED those "greed-suckers" into office? Take some responsibility. That's one of the problems with our current society, no one accepts any responsibility for the negative results of things they helped create.

I've watched some of the "documentaries" about Detroit, showing town hall meetings. All I saw was people crying "gimme gimme gimme" while the government representatives kept saying "we don't have the tax base anymore." No compromise, no solutions, just a lot of demands.

Well, you made your bed now lie in it! Or else get up and out of it and REMAKE it. Very simple, facing reality and dealing with it.

People often vote for elected officials believing they are the best candidate only to find out that they are really demagogues.
It's always easy to tear people down, kick them to the curb, and refuse them any help, but that's not a solution. That's exacerbating the problem, which most likely will spread to other cities.
Instead of assigning the Sisyphean task of saving Detroit to the citizens, why not search and procure different solutions.
It's not only Detroit crying gimme gimme gimme. In case you aren't aware, Sen. Rand Paul also cries gimme gimme gimme. For every dollar Kentucky sends to Washington, they get $1.52 back.
 
People often vote for elected officials believing they are the best candidate only to find out that they are really demagogues.
It's always easy to tear people down, kick them to the curb, and refuse them any help, but that's not a solution. That's exacerbating the problem, which most likely will spread to other cities.
Instead of assigning the Sisyphean task of saving Detroit to the citizens, why not search and procure different solutions.
It's not only Detroit crying gimme gimme gimme. In case you aren't aware, Sen. Rand Paul also cries gimme gimme gimme. For every dollar Kentucky sends to Washington, they get $1.52 back.

Because I believe that an involved populace becomes a civic minded one. As long as people can escape the results of their errors they have no motivation for change. Get them involved in the problem, tell them it's on their shoulders and suddenly they are willing to see the value of compromises and solutions.

Some people will run, some people will hide, but some will do what needs doing and be all the better for it. NO BAILOUTS!! Fix it yourself, not just in Detroit...EVERYWHERE!
 
And how does that program help Detroit and its people?

Could you wax eloquently for a few minutes about personal responsibility and accepting the consequences of your choices for living in a flood plain?

Could you discuss the elements of accepting personal responsibility of living along the coast where destructive and deadly seasonal storms are merely par for the course?

Could you pontificate about the duty to accept responsibility of living in a part of the nation where a fault exists in the earth and earthquakes are inevitable?

Could you educate us about the duty to accept personal responsibility of living in a part of the country with precious little water which has to be expensively taken from other areas of the nation just so others can live in that climate?

Could you inform us about the duty to accept personal responsibility for living in a tornado alley which you know darn well is subject to a high probability of damage on a somewhat regular basis?

Please do illuminate the dark recesses of our minds on all these things connected with personal responsibility.

I don't live in a flood plain, but if I chose to I would buy flood insurance, or accept the risk.

I don't live on the coast, but if Idid, I would be sure my insurance would cover my losses.

I don't live on a fault, but if I did I would get earthquake insurance, or plan to accept the possible losses.

I would not choose to live where there was inadequate water for my needs, but if I did I would not ask people in wet area to mail me a couple of gallons each day.

I did live in tornado alley for ba while. I had insurance.

It is about personal decisions and the acceptance of the risk/rewards of those decisions.

Seriously, if you want to help the people of Detroit, mail them a check each month. Just make sure the signature is yours, not mine or my grand kids.
 
Actually a natural disaster is no different than any other disaster in that it hurts Americans and requires aid to them. You say "through no fault of their own". Really? Who forced or imprisoned those people to live along the Eastern seaboard or the Gulf Coast? Who sentenced people to live in a hurricane prone area or a tornado alley? Who imprisoned the people along river flood plains? Who doomed innocent people to live on earthquake fault lines?

And what exactly are you punishing people in Detroit for that you want them to accept "the consequences of their actions"? Are they to be punished because they performed a job for thirty or forty years and fulfilled their end of that contract and now want the other party to uphold their end? That is something you condemn as a bad action?

Every place in the world is subject to natural disaster through no fault of the people living there. An asteroid can hit the earth anywhere, you are gonna blame people for living on the Earth for that are you? It is a false equivalent, and if you don't know it, you should. I live in an inland area of the south that had not been hit by a hurricane in 60 plus years. Then, in just one year, we got hit 3 times. So nobody should live in the entire South, is that it? Nobody should live in Kansas or Texas, nobody should live in NY or New Jersey, California, etc... nowhere, right?

Listen, if you keep electing people who have no idea what they are doing, whose fault it that?

I don't follow Detroit all that much but even without following it we all know its one of the most corrupt, crime ridden and mismanaged cities, obviously, in the entire USA... this coming from a time when, not too long ago in the 1950s, it was the wealthiest city in the US on a per capita basis. Juxtapose that with the current city of Detroit. If you live in a place that squanders its wealth and opportunity, if you elect people who squander, then you live where you squandered and you live in the squander [ or vote with your feet and move ...just don't bring your mismanagement to where I live ] until you can make it better.

You mismanage your life, your inheritance, your body and then you want us, neighbors close and distant, to make it all better for you? No. Don't make those mistakes in the first place. Takes, often, a bit of self denial, self discipline, a little work and effort. You folks keep on wanting to penalize us, those who do the right things, so as to let those who don't off the hook. If you have some guilty conscience for some reason, establish a fund where you can contribute to those who have created their own misery. I say, send a message that we won't help those who self inflict and so we all know, from the beginning, that it will be all up to those making the mistakes to make it better... and then, who knows, maybe people will start making better decisions on how to live their life. The side benefit to all that is that they will live a better and more fulfilling life.

Do you want to argue unions and pensions? How the unions achieved many victories in wages, benefits and pensions for their members, to the tune of these being Pyrrhic Victories, where the legacy costs of all these are making the companies they worked for less and less competitive, driving some out of business as these costs are unsustainable? Those taking these inordinately high wages, benefits and pensions that were nice at the time, but unsustainable. It was kind of a Faustian bargain...eh?

And what do you mean I am punishing them? I had nothing to do with them or their decisions. I am just one that says you have to sleep in the bed you made for yourself. My house is messy right now... why don't you offer to come over and clean it up for me...oh, and next week too, and the week after, and...
 
The city government, obviously comprised of greed-suckers, created the devastation, but your solution is to thrust the burden upon he innocent people to pull themselves out.

Who elected the greed suckers, who kept electing the creators of devastation? Was certainly not me, but you want me to pay for it, huh? The people of Detroit are not wholly innocent there, lets try to be a bit rational... at minimum they are accessories to their own demise.
 
Because I believe that an involved populace becomes a civic minded one. As long as people can escape the results of their errors they have no motivation for change. Get them involved in the problem, tell them it's on their shoulders and suddenly they are willing to see the value of compromises and solutions.

Some people will run, some people will hide, but some will do what needs doing and be all the better for it. NO BAILOUTS!! Fix it yourself, not just in Detroit...EVERYWHERE!

So the solution is to place the burden on the shoulders of single mothers, who are working 2 and 3 jobs just to keep food on the table, and the children who are hungry.
Let me be the fist the say, you would make a very unfit public servant.
 
AArrggh! How hard is it to understand? NO BAILOUTS! People need to stop thinking that government has an unlimited fund of money (regardless of fiat cash) and can just pour it onto any fire we cry about. The money comes from US, the citizens. The government uses this idea to promote deficit spending...and here we are trillions in debt.

If a city get's into financial troubles it is up to the local citizenry to FIX it. That means sitting down together and facing FACTS!!! Then coming up with a proper plan that deals with REALITY!

Geeez, does everyone think they deserve free and unlimited access to tax dollars?

It's that consequence of people feeling the gov't has free and unlimited access to our money... Of course that's an overstatement, but it won't change how people feel about it.

If you want to break the long line of precedence that each side uses as justifications and make an example of a group that already gets more representation, more tax breaks, more benefits than work-a-day citizens... start making consistent examples of finance, energy and insurance... and gov't... then we can talk about what the people must suffer through.

The cycle needs to be broken, no question. Bailouts need to be stopped, period. It's just sad that with all the possibilities to end that string of precedences prior to Detroit... all were missed opportunities.
 
Can we stop comparing Detroit's financial woes to natural disasters!?

Detroit is a man made disaster!
 
So the solution is to place the burden on the shoulders of single mothers, who are working 2 and 3 jobs just to keep food on the table, and the children who are hungry.
Let me be the fist the say, you would make a very unfit public servant.

Don't play that "appeal to emotion" crap in a debate on issues. You trying to tell me that most, if not all citizens of Detroit are "single mothers working 2 and 3 jobs to keep food on the table for hungry children?" Most of over 700,000 people? HARDLY!

There would be no "unfit public servants" if people who resided in a city were a little more civic minded. Now, after refusing to recognize a problem despite it being brought to their attention again and again, these fair citizens of Detroit deserve to be bailed out? HARDLY!

These same citizens who refuse to allow cost-cutting reductions in city services, who demand MORE services that cannot be paid for? Who know that industry refuses to pay $30 an hour for labor, but refuses to see that Industrial flight resulted? They deserve to be bailed out? HARDLY!

Detroit still has the resources and the tax base to solve it's own problems. Tighten the belt, sell off property, reorganize, and find solutions with the help of it's own citizens. NO one there deserves to be BAILED OUT! Whining notwithstanding.
 
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It's that consequence of people feeling the gov't has free and unlimited access to our money... Of course that's an overstatement, but it won't change how people feel about it.

If you want to break the long line of precedence that each side uses as justifications and make an example of a group that already gets more representation, more tax breaks, more benefits than work-a-day citizens... start making consistent examples of finance, energy and insurance... and gov't... then we can talk about what the people must suffer through.

The cycle needs to be broken, no question. Bailouts need to be stopped, period. It's just sad that with all the possibilities to end that string of precedences prior to Detroit... all were missed opportunities.

Dude, don't point to prior wrongs as if this justifies another wrong. I fought hard against the first bailout back then and every one since. In fact, during the first bailout attempt I organized a large block of calls that got our representative to vote against it. Then they re-voted again without much warning and got it passed anyway. I never voted for my representative again.

Yes, the cycle needs to be broken...NOW! People should also be aware after the last fiasco that government does not serve them it serves the special interests. Only by taking an active interest, as I insist the citizens of Detroit start doing, will we ever be able to start curing that.
 
Don't play that "appeal to emotion" crap in a debate on issues. You trying to tell me that most, if not all citizens of Detroit are "single mothers working 2 and 3 jobs to keep food on the table for hungry children?" Most of over 700,000 people? HARDLY!

There would be no "unfit publice servants" if people who resided in a city were a little more civic minded. Now, after refusing to recognize a problem despite it being brought to their attention again and again, these fair citizens of Detroit deserve to be bailed out? HARDLY!

These same citizens who refuse to allow cost-cutting reductions in city services, who demand MORE services that cannot be paid for? Who know that industry refuses to pay $30 an hour for labor, but refuses to see that Industrial flight resulted? They deserve to be bailed out? HARDLY!

Detroit still has the resources and the tax base to solve it's own problems. Tighten the belt, sell off property, reorganize, and find solutions with the help of it's own citizens. NO one there deserves to be BAILED OUT! Whining notwithstanding.

Well, it would seem that you single-handedly have solved the problem in your world of fantasy.
 
Come on liberals. Ya'll need to get behind this in a big way.

THEY ALREADY DID BAIL OUT DETROIT!!!

They have the money to the auto companies to shut their doors and move to Mexico, brazil, and china...

Thanks free trade.
 
I say we privatize Detroit.
 
Innocent? Who VOTED those "greed-suckers" into office? Take some responsibility. That's one of the problems with our current society, no one accepts any responsibility for the negative results of things they helped create.

I've watched some of the "documentaries" about Detroit, showing town hall meetings. All I saw was people crying "gimme gimme gimme" while the government representatives kept saying "we don't have the tax base anymore." No compromise, no solutions, just a lot of demands.

Well, you made your bed now lie in it! Or else get up and out of it and REMAKE it. Very simple, facing reality and dealing with it.

:applaud:applaud
 
Well, it would seem that you single-handedly have solved the problem in your world of fantasy.

LOL It's only a fanatasy for people who refuse to accept responsibility. People who take responsibility take action and save themselves; those who don't end up watching flood waters rise, then drown waiting for rescue.

Who lives in the world of fantasy? Those who act, or those who can act but prefer to beg for help? Or maybe those who make excuses for those who refuse to act?
 
LOL It's only a fanatasy for people who refuse to accept responsibility. People who take responsibility take action and save themselves; those who don't end up watching flood waters rise, then drown waiting for rescue.

Who lives in the world of fantasy? Those who act, or those who can act but prefer to beg for help? Or maybe those who make excuses for those who refuse to act?

Yep.

Funny Jokes | Flood Shmud Joke | Comedy Central
 
Dude, don't point to prior wrongs as if this justifies another wrong. I fought hard against the first bailout back then and every one since. In fact, during the first bailout attempt I organized a large block of calls that got our representative to vote against it. Then they re-voted again without much warning and got it passed anyway. I never voted for my representative again.

That's awesome... seems we're in agreement here. I'm not pointing out any precedences as justifications. I'm pointing out the fallacy that wrongs ARE used to justify wrongs. Same as you. However, what I, or you did personally doesn't matter. What matters is that no matter what you and I do, the momentum of these precedences within our governing bodies seems unstoppable.

Yes, the cycle needs to be broken...NOW! People should also be aware after the last fiasco that government does not serve them it serves the special interests. Only by taking an active interest, as I insist the citizens of Detroit start doing, will we ever be able to start curing that.

There are many things that need to change before we can even think about reclaiming our representation. For one, we have precious little access to objective, qualitative, factual information/reporting/news. The only dogs in that fight are commercial revenue and favorable representation. Facts don't figure into it.

Next, election finance reform and lobby reform need to be seriously addressed. Otherwise, we can all have an active interest, maybe even a well informed active interest, we can write our reps, go to town hall theater, gather in the streets with bullhorns, occupy this and de-occupy that... but we won't be heard behind the closed doors of inside politics.

However, on a local level, such as Detroit, there is a good chance to actually have an influence... if you are residents and employees... Access to reps and public servants at the local level is much harder to insulate behind closed doors.. still happens... yet easier, or at least possible to prevent.
 
And how does that program help Detroit and its people?

Could you wax eloquently for a few minutes about personal responsibility and accepting the consequences of your choices for living in a flood plain?

Could you discuss the elements of accepting personal responsibility of living along the coast where destructive and deadly seasonal storms are merely par for the course?

Could you pontificate about the duty to accept responsibility of living in a part of the nation where a fault exists in the earth and earthquakes are inevitable?

Could you educate us about the duty to accept personal responsibility of living in a part of the country with precious little water which has to be expensively taken from other areas of the nation just so others can live in that climate?

Could you inform us about the duty to accept personal responsibility for living in a tornado alley which you know darn well is subject to a high probability of damage on a somewhat regular basis?

Please do illuminate the dark recesses of our minds on all these things connected with personal responsibility.

Could you please elucidate about why those living in Detroit continuously vote politicians into office who are inept, arrogant, and take advantage of the citizens of the city?

It seems the issues of the majority of those living in Detroit are self-imposed.
 
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