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Do you support school uniforms?

What is your stance on School Uniforms?

  • Yes and the school should offer them at no extra cost.

    Votes: 20 18.3%

  • Yes and the parents should pay for them.

    Votes: 40 36.7%

  • They should be optional for students who want them

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • There should be school uniforms for specific activities only

    Votes: 3 2.8%

  • We should leave it to the parents to decide if the school should have uniforms

    Votes: 10 9.2%

  • We should leave it at municipal/state level

    Votes: 10 9.2%

  • We shouldn't have school uniforms at all

    Votes: 24 22.0%

  • I like the current way things are.

    Votes: 5 4.6%

  • I hate uniforms

    Votes: 9 8.3%

  • I'm a potato.

    Votes: 13 11.9%
  • Total voters
    109
I never heard of having school uniforms until recently when it happened to my step daughter.
She seems only mildly annoyed with it and mostly accepting.

It they had tried to pull this in my day, we would of burned the school to the ground before we stood for it. But I guess my generation was a lot more in control of our destiny than the kids today.

I can not imagine how any adult would allow their child to be subjected to this.
This reminds me of when the schools in MS during the 80's lowered the standards of education off the bottom of the chart so that the minorities could pass.
Instead, it is an attack on personal freedom and individuality so that the social rejects can fit in.

All I can figure is that any parent that supports this, must have been one of those kids that did not embrace their individuality or fit into a clique.
Doing one or the other in high school used to be an important lesson towards learning to deal with society.
 
Painter said:
I never heard of having school uniforms until recently when it happened to my step daughter.
She seems only mildly annoyed with it and mostly accepting.

It they had tried to pull this in my day, we would of burned the school to the ground before we stood for it. But I guess my generation was a lot more in control of our destiny than the kids today.

I can not imagine how any adult would allow their child to be subjected to this.
This reminds me of when the schools in MS during the 80's lowered the standards of education off the bottom of the chart so that the minorities could pass.
Instead, it is an attack on personal freedom and individuality so that the social rejects can fit in.

All I can figure is that any parent that supports this, must have been one of those kids that did not embrace their individuality or fit into a clique.
Doing one or the other in high school used to be an important lesson towards learning to deal with society.
Click to expand...

You would figure wrong then... there are very valid reasons to support school uniforms and it has nothing to do with not embrace their individuality or fit into a clique (which contradict each other, by the way).
 
Bodhisattva said:
You would figure wrong then... there are very valid reasons to support school uniforms and it has nothing to do with not embrace their individuality or fit into a clique (which contradict each other, by the way).
Click to expand...

They do indeed. But by pointing it out, I think it indicates you missed my point.
When I was school age, a kid either embraced his individuality or fit into a clique. Both types had their place.
It was the ones who did neither that were unhappy. But they were few.

In my opinion, dressing them up like dolls takes away both routes.
At the very least, they should choose the uniforms.
 
Painter said:
They do indeed. But by pointing it out, I think it indicates you missed my point.
When I was school age, a kid either embraced his individuality or fit into a clique. Both types had their place.
It was the ones who did neither that were unhappy. But they were few.

In my opinion, dressing them up like dolls takes away both routes.
At the very least, they should choose the uniforms.
Click to expand...

School uniforms is dressing them up like dolls? ummm.... what?

I work in a country that requires uniforms. There are cliques. There are individuals. There are unhappy kids. The students initially had a say in the designing of the uniforms. Now it is established. I was an individual that embraced his individuality and I transcended cliques, meaning I was accepted into pretty much them all. Your statement:

All I can figure is that any parent that supports this, must have been one of those kids that did not embrace their individuality or fit into a clique.

...is wrong. The idea that uniforms are analogous to lowering education standards is false as well. I am not sure how your generation was more in control of their destiny than todays either. There has always been unemployment, slackers, achievers, etc. That statement is literally a very strange one. Basically, your whole post seems wrong and burning down a school in protest, even if just a metaphor, seems like out of control behaviour instead of being in control.
 
Bodhisattva said:
School uniforms is dressing them up like dolls? ummm.... what?

I work in a country that requires uniforms. There are cliques. There are individuals. There are unhappy kids. The students initially had a say in the designing of the uniforms. Now it is established. I was an individual that embraced his individuality and I transcended cliques, meaning I was accepted into pretty much them all. Your statement:

All I can figure is that any parent that supports this, must have been one of those kids that did not embrace their individuality or fit into a clique.

...is wrong. The idea that uniforms are analogous to lowering education standards is false as well. I am not sure how your generation was more in control of their destiny than todays either. There has always been unemployment, slackers, achievers, etc. That statement is literally a very strange one. Basically, your whole post seems wrong and burning down a school in protest, even if just a metaphor, seems like out of control behaviour instead of being in control.
Click to expand...

It was a metaphor but only to a degree. My school was pretty wild.
I really enjoyed my youth and it is hard for me to even imagine what it would be like to have been subjected to such control.
It simply never could have happened.
I guess times are just different now. I'll accept that and move on. Not as though its my problem or a significant issue for me.
 
vesper said:
I'm sorry Bodhisattva, but I do not see a course of study, curriculum, as being collectivist. And I surely don't see rules that maintain order and structure as being collectivism. But when a group decides to take upon themselves to enforce rules that infringe of the liberties of others involving a public institution, then I think it needs to be challenged. And it is my belief that enforcing mandatory uniform dress in a public school unjust. So we will have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

I don't think that you know what collectivism is, to be honest. Rules maintaining the order and structure of the group or team is the root of collectivism.

Collectivist orientations stress the importance of cohesion within social groups and in some cases, the priority of group goals over individual goals.

Collectivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The class of students are given time tables and herded from here to there. They are punished if they are late or don't show up to the required place at the required time They are silenced with threats in assemblies. Teachers and administration stress the importance of cohesion within the group or class. Many times the priority is group goals over individual goals and this is exemplified by telling them what they can and can't say, telling them when they can say it, telling them when they can and can't eat, etc.

So no, I will not agree to disagree this time. This is not a simple discussion of opinions where you or I may be right. This is a situation where you are wrong. I readily admit that I am wrong many times. I have no problem with that. The problem is that this is not one of the billions of times that I am wrong (ask my ex wife, it might have been trillions of times). Sorry... you and Henrin are simply wrong.
 
Painter said:
It was a metaphor but only to a degree. My school was pretty wild.
I really enjoyed my youth and it is hard for me to even imagine what it would be like to have been subjected to such control.
It simply never could have happened.
I guess times are just different now. I'll accept that and move on. Not as though its my problem or a significant issue for me.
Click to expand...

You were subjected to such control... even more actually. It was in the terms of your parents and their billion rules that you had to follow. Same at school. I just think that you think that uniforms is harsher than it really is...
 
Yes, but I think there should be more than one uniform to choose from. Invariably, uniforms are unflattering to one body type, and what a bummer for a kid to have to feel unattractive every day. Also, that offers some degree of choice.
 
520763043_351ada3134.jpg


What was it you found so objectionable about uniforms again?
 
Slyfox696 said:
How dare you stifle his freedom of expression!
Click to expand...

Who is stifling his freedom of expression?
Our military is set up to be voluntary. So the picture of the marine in his dress blues made an INDIVIDUAL choice to serve knowing part of that service involved wearing a uniform.

But when you mandate uniforms on children in a public institution you take away their INDIVIDUAL freedom of expression whether it be personal, religious or cultural traditional dress. You treat them COLLECTIVELY as a group. Ironically, Socialist countries which claimed to oppose militarism in contrast often impose school uniforms.
 
vesper said:
Who is stifling his freedom of expression?
Our military is set up to be voluntary. So the picture of the marine in his dress blues made an INDIVIDUAL choice to serve knowing part of that service involved wearing a uniform.

But when you mandate uniforms on children in a public institution you take away their INDIVIDUAL freedom of expression whether it be personal, religious or cultural traditional dress. You treat them COLLECTIVELY as a group. Ironically, Socialist countries which claimed to oppose militarism in contrast often impose school uniforms.
Click to expand...

Plenty of people have to wear uniforms. There is really no difference. The children have plenty of time to dress the way they want on their own time. When they are in school, they are there thanks to taxpayer monies, and we responsible taxpayers want them in school learning, not for a fashion show or a place to "express" their individuality. THAT is not what school is about. It is about learning PERIOD, and many of these kids do not know how to dress appropriately, and neither do their parents apparently, and these children are distractions to others and themselves when they are worried about what they are going to wear rather than if they did their homework. This is NOT rocket science.
 
vesper said:
Who is stifling his freedom of expression?
Our military is set up to be voluntary. So the picture of the marine in his dress blues made an INDIVIDUAL choice to serve knowing part of that service involved wearing a uniform.

But when you mandate uniforms on children in a public institution you take away their INDIVIDUAL freedom of expression whether it be personal, religious or cultural traditional dress. You treat them COLLECTIVELY as a group. Ironically, Socialist countries which claimed to oppose militarism in contrast often impose school uniforms.
Click to expand...

Again, that's why school should be an individual choice.
and why the order and discipline engendered by, if not uniforms, at least by a strict dress code, is necessary for the teaching of such higher level thinking skills as recognizing irony.
 
vesper said:
Who is stifling his freedom of expression?
Our military is set up to be voluntary. So the picture of the marine in his dress blues made an INDIVIDUAL choice to serve knowing part of that service involved wearing a uniform.

But when you mandate uniforms on children in a public institution you take away their INDIVIDUAL freedom of expression whether it be personal, religious or cultural traditional dress. You treat them COLLECTIVELY as a group. Ironically, Socialist countries which claimed to oppose militarism in contrast often impose school uniforms.
Click to expand...

Did you miss my post #431 or are you just ignoring it? It goes to the heart of your argument, which, by the way, you are not defending with any facts. This is a debate site. I offer facts and you refute them, bot just say I don't agree. That is not a debate. Here it is again though...

I don't think that you know what collectivism is, to be honest. Rules maintaining the order and structure of the group or team is the root of collectivism.

Collectivist orientations stress the importance of cohesion within social groups and in some cases, the priority of group goals over individual goals.

Collectivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The class of students are given time tables and herded from here to there. They are punished if they are late or don't show up to the required place at the required time They are silenced with threats in assemblies. Teachers and administration stress the importance of cohesion within the group or class. Many times the priority is group goals over individual goals and this is exemplified by telling them what they can and can't say, telling them when they can say it, telling them when they can and can't eat, etc.

So no, I will not agree to disagree this time. This is not a simple discussion of opinions where you or I may be right. This is a situation where you are wrong. I readily admit that I am wrong many times. I have no problem with that. The problem is that this is not one of the billions of times that I am wrong (ask my ex wife, it might have been trillions of times). Sorry... you and Henrin are simply wrong.
 
ChrisL said:
Plenty of people have to wear uniforms. There is really no difference. The children have plenty of time to dress the way they want on their own time. When they are in school, they are there thanks to taxpayer monies, and we responsible taxpayers want them in school learning, not for a fashion show or a place to "express" their individuality. THAT is not what school is about. It is about learning PERIOD, and many of these kids do not know how to dress appropriately, and neither do their parents apparently, and these children are distractions to others and themselves when they are worried about what they are going to wear rather than if they did their homework. This is NOT rocket science.
Click to expand...

She just wants to share her emotions and be heard. This is a very female thing to do. Facts are irrelevant because we are talking about "feelings" with her... I read Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus. I know what I am talking about.
 
Bodhisattva said:
She just wants to share her emotions and be heard. This is a very female thing to do. Facts are irrelevant because we are talking about "feelings" with her... I read Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus. I know what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. :roll:
 
Bodhisattva said:
She just wants to share her emotions and be heard. This is a very female thing to do. Facts are irrelevant because we are talking about "feelings" with her... I read Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus. I know what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

Not only did I have you pegged as a hardhead with a bad case of tunnel vision but now I can add sexist to the list.

While you and others want to continually tell me I am wrong on the issue, it may surprise you that the ACLU agrees with me.

Four Reasons Public Schools Should Think Twice Before Instituting School Uniform Policies | ACLU of Nevada

And a simple Google search will reveal where other districts have fought to keep uniforms out of their public schools on 1st Amendment Rights and have won.

And yes I understand collectivism. It is the exact opposite of individualism.. and you obviously struggle with that one.
 
vesper said:
1. Not only did I have you pegged as a hardhead with a bad case of tunnel vision but

2. now I can add sexist to the list.

3. While you and others want to continually tell me I am wrong on the issue, it may surprise you that the ACLU agrees with me.

Four Reasons Public Schools Should Think Twice Before Instituting School Uniform Policies | ACLU of Nevada

4. And a simple Google search will reveal where other districts have fought to keep uniforms out of their public schools on 1st Amendment Rights and have won.

5. And yes I understand collectivism. It is the exact opposite of individualism.. and you obviously struggle with that one.
Click to expand...

1. I am not a hard head. We are debating. Apparently you are new to this...

2. You have me pegged. I am a sexist. Because even though I told Chris it was sarcasm in the very post above yours, it obviously wasn't. Damn me! Must be rough for my daughters...

3. The ACLU is a moronic organization that defends Nazi's and terrorists. They can eat crap and die for all I care.

4. So what? Those people don't want uniforms. There is nothing unconstitutional about uniforms. That is why they are all over America.

5. No, you don't understand the difference. That much is very clear in your posts, as I have clearly pointed out. Show me where I seemingly don't know what individualism is then... you can't but go ahead and try!!
 
vesper said:
Who is stifling his freedom of expression?
Click to expand...
I was...nevermind, you wouldn't get it.

Our military is set up to be voluntary. So the picture of the marine in his dress blues made an INDIVIDUAL choice to serve knowing part of that service involved wearing a uniform.
Click to expand...
You're still stifling his expression. First amendment rights and all that.

But when you mandate uniforms on children in a public institution you take away their INDIVIDUAL freedom of expression whether it be personal, religious or cultural traditional dress.
Click to expand...
They're welcome to go to a private school.

You treat them COLLECTIVELY as a group.
Click to expand...
Kind of like our military.

Ironically, Socialist countries which claimed to oppose militarism in contrast often impose school uniforms.
Click to expand...
Ironically, people who make ridiculous arguments never realize their arguments are ridiculous, even when presented with a parallel example they call ridiculous.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I was...nevermind, you wouldn't get it.

You're still stifling his expression. First amendment rights and all that.

They're welcome to go to a private school.

Kind of like our military.

Ironically, people who make ridiculous arguments never realize their arguments are ridiculous, even when presented with a parallel example they call ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your response, Why I wouldn't know where to begin with this ridiculous run away train of thought. But it could share some light on why our public school systems are train wrecks. For a student can only be as good as his/her teacher.
 
They say you judge a country's freedom by how well it defends unpopular but legal activities. The ACLU doesn't defend the beliefs of Nazis, Jews, Christians, the thousand man marchers, or any other group of people. The ACLU defends the constitution, no matter how unpopular the activities under the Constitution may be.
 
vesper said:
Thank you for your response, Why I wouldn't know where to begin with this ridiculous run away train of thought. But it could share some light on why our public school systems are train wrecks. For a student can only be as good as his/her teacher.
Click to expand...
Ahh, I see. In the absence of any real or logical argument, you instead decide to blame me for the entire public school system. Got it. Thank goodness someone here isn't being ridiculous.
 
Bodhisattva said:
She just wants to share her emotions and be heard. This is a very female thing to do. Facts are irrelevant because we are talking about "feelings" with her... I read Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus. I know what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

Are you sure?

Remember, this is just volume 1:

understanding women.jpg
 
JumpinJack said:
They say you judge a country's freedom by how well it defends unpopular but legal activities. The ACLU doesn't defend the beliefs of Nazis, Jews, Christians, the thousand man marchers, or any other group of people. The ACLU defends the constitution, no matter how unpopular the activities under the Constitution may be.
Click to expand...

In claiming to be "defending" the Constitution, they are defending Nazis, terrorists and others pieces of ****s beliefs.
 
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