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Is communism possible in the USA?

Is communism possible in the USA?

  • Yes, Soviet type of communism

    Votes: 9 9.1%

  • Yes, community type of communism

    Votes: 10 10.1%

  • Yes, religious type of communism

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • Yes, other type of communism

    Votes: 12 12.1%

  • No, not possible

    Votes: 57 57.6%

  • Dunno

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Total voters
    99
Empirica said:
Actually, it's obviously ridiculous_
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Hmmmm...it's not obvious to me.

Empirica said:
Jesus never promoted forced wealth redistribution__every Christian knows "Thou shalt not steal"_
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I'm curious where Jesus said this. I don't recall ever reading that he said these words.

Empirica said:
What Jesus did advocate was compassion and charity from the heart for the less fortunate among us_
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Yes, correct.

Empirica said:
Christianity is about giving of your own free will
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Well...this is weird reasoning. I suppose you could say that it's true Jesus seems to have thought that Christians should genuinely want to help others. But commandments to help the poor and also each other are just that--commandments. Jesus never said "help the poor, but only if you feel like it."

Empirica said:
while Communism is rooted in The Authoritarian State_
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Marx thought that the only people who would need to be forced to accept communism were the wealthy classes. The proletariat, he thought, would gladly accept communism of their own free will. Socialism is implemented with political force. Communism, in its final form, has no or little political force.

Empirica said:
The teachings of Marx are about as contradictory to those of Jesus as two disciplines can possibly get_
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This does not seem to be demonstrated.
 
aw shucks there you go again Empirica ;)

:applaud
 
ashurbanipal said:
Marx thought that the only people who would need to be forced to accept communism were the wealthy classes
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well well well now
isn't that special?

I'm sure those 6 million Kulaks would agree?
 
Jesus was the ultimate communist. He shunned material possession, He multiplied bread and fish for the sole purpose of feeding others who were hungry.

Matthew 7:12 said:
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
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Deuteronomy 15:11 said:
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
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And if you're looking for less suggestion and more command, remember how difficult it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
 
pshaw all religions want to control your mind
all governments desire to control your body
freedom is antithetical to either organization

For heavens sake the last thing we'd ever want is for people
to go running around deciding for themselves how to live their lives :shock:
 
AngyOldGuy said:
well well well now
isn't that special?

I'm sure those 6 million Kulaks would agree?
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They would if they are reasonable. It was the progression from Lenin to Stalin, along with an unhealthy dose of at least 1000 years of oppression, that led to their plight. Marx would have been horrified...just as I suspect Jesus would be quite horrified at many of the actions taken in his name by those who profess to follow him today.

Don't get me wrong...I have a great deal more respect for Jesus than I do for Marx, and in a sense, the two were operating on entirely different planes. But Christianity has some ideas which are in harmony with those of Communism, and indeed, some of the core ideals are similar.
 
yeah me too
I can hardly wait for communism to be fully implemented in America
finally we'll have the chance for it to succeed
 
I suspect that full-on implementation of Communism, or even Socialism, is ill-advised anywhere. But contrary to some opinions expressed by artevelde, the flaw with communism is not its bloodthirstiness, but rather, its lack of appreciation for the forces that direct human society. I think there has to be a balance between cooperation and competition, personal freedom and social responsibility, and communism goes too far in one direction. This makes it an unworkable system, IMO.
 
Then clearly you'd agree that laissez faire capitalism would be taking it too far in the other direction Right?

After all that would just be too much of a good thing ;)
 
Yes, that does go too far the other way. The few times it's been tried, it resulted in some very bad consequences.

I think there should be a balance between competition and cooperation. Without cooperation built into our economic model, we have no real economy, and really, not even a society. There's a reason people band together, and we have to respect those reasons as being conducive to survival and maximally desirable outcomes for the most individuals. But without competition, there's no reason for someone to work any harder than absolutely necessary to get by. People who work hard, work smart, etc. should have a better life than those who do not.

Of course, this leaves a lot of details to be discussed. But this is my personal starting-point, anyway.
 
Help me out buddy enlighten me
where and when was "The few times it's been tried"

and tell all about the "very bad consequences"

that resulted.
 
Moot said:
Thats true, it wouldn't the USA anymore. It would be an authoritarian theocracy with all the communist bells and whistles. And since Jesus preached socialism....it would be an easy switch......if only it weren't for that darn constitution and separation of church and state.
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Jesus did not preach socialism.........not true!

socialism is force, and Jesus was not about force.

when Jesus saw sin, he spoke out about it, ...but he used no force to stop it.
 
I love it when these gawdless commies try to us Jeebus to justify their murderous ideology, don't you?
 
ernst barkmann said:
Jesus did not preach socialism.........not true!

socialism is force, and Jesus was not about force.

when Jesus saw sin, he spoke out about it, ...but he used no force to stop it.
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Preaching doesn't use force....


Matthew 5:46-47 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Matthew 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Acts 2:43-45 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.


Jesus also preached "social justice".....


Psalm 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

Proverbs 22:16 Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty

Proverbs 24:11 Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.

Proverbs 31:8-9 Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy

Isaiah 10:1-2 Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression, to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey!

Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’” ...
 
Moot said:
Preaching doesn't use force....


Matthew 5:46-47 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Matthew 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Acts 2:43-45 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.


Jesus also preached "social justice".....


Psalm 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

Proverbs 22:16 Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty

Proverbs 24:11 Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.

Proverbs 31:8-9 Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy

Isaiah 10:1-2 Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression, to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey!

Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’” ...
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socialism is force, becuase it demands you give your money, to what it believes is the betterment of a society.

Jesus preached that people should give out of the goodness of ones' own heart, not by the force of government.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Yes, that does go too far the other way. The few times it's been tried, it resulted in some very bad consequences.
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As bad as the bad communist/socialist blights in history? Certainly not. We've had more high points than low, is the point, and the net-high points have been perceived around the world as good, and have been implemented at least in part by most industrialized nations, to great benefit.

And what about the fact that for any new system, of which capitalism/democracy on the U.S. scale was certainly a worldwide experiment, there will be issues that cause pain, that the citizens should come together and solve, and learn from, but this process of learning can take some time. How much time do we allow it before injecting government control, which carries its own dangers, not to mention may not actually solve it, and you may not be able to "get rid of it" once its no longer needed, or if the problems change, etc.?

With the digital age, do we need so much heavy handed government? I mean, we have child labor laws now, do we still need massive labor organizations in bed with politicians, resting on the laurels of the 40 hour workweek and child labor laws? Glassdoor, salary.com, etc. Competition is ever increasing, and it provides some of the most efficient checks and balances. I do agree pure capitalism is just as bad though, I would just err on the side of minimal, rather than zero government involvement.
 
Once the US has a record of slaughtering, torturing & imprisoning its citizens like:
The Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia,
Mongolia, Ethiopia, Poland, East-Germany, Czechoslovakia, Albania,
Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia & Cuba

get back to me and we'll talk.
 
Seriously Mach why on earth would you say
"pure capitalism is just as bad though"
Dang, the media brainwashing has been oh SO effective.
Why oh why do so many buy the lie that quote unquote

'pure capitalism' is evil?

How can so many people stubbornly hold on too this false belief?
 
ernst barkmann said:
socialism is force, becuase it demands you give your money, to what it believes is the betterment of a society.

Jesus preached that people should give out of the goodness of ones' own heart, not by the force of government.
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Jesus told his apostles and followers to give up their worldly goods and possessions and give them to the poor and needy. Of course they did this of their own free will.....or else they would rot in eternal damnation. Some might say that the threat of eternal damnation was "force".

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25:31-46&version=ESV

Socialism is "a political and economic theory that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated. In Marxist theory, socialism is a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism."

If you're just going to keep repeating that "socialism is a force" then I'm going have to ask you to prove it with a credible source.
 
Moot said:
Jesus told his apostles and followers to give up their worldly goods and possessions and give them to the poor and needy. Of course they did this of their own free will.....or else they would rot in eternal damnation. Some might say that the threat of eternal damnation was "force".

Matthew 25:31-46 ESV - The Final Judgment -

Socialism is "a political and economic theory that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated. In Marxist theory, socialism is a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism."

If you're just going to keep repeating that "socialism is a force" then I'm going have to ask you to prove it with a credible source.
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there is no freedom is socialism.

you and the Head of J, can reinterpret the bible if you wish.... to tickle your own fancy, but it will not change the bible.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
Seriously Mach why on earth would you say
"pure capitalism is just as bad though"
Dang, the media brainwashing has been oh SO effective.
Why oh why do so many buy the lie that quote unquote

'pure capitalism' is evil?

How can so many people stubbornly hold on too this false belief?
Click to expand...

Too much of anything is bad. "Pure" capitalism is no exception.
 
ernst barkmann said:
there is no freedom is socialism.

you and the Head of J, can reinterpret the bible if you wish.... to tickle your own fancy, but it will not change the bible.
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If you can't convince anyone with logic, reason and evidence....then by all means resort to beating people over the head with denial and personal attacks and then tell me again about "force".
 
why oh why?
It makes me sad
We can't even begin to debate the concept that pure capitalism isn't evil incarnate
indeed the whole concept MUST be dismissed out of hand
the alternative is far too terrifying for anyone to comprehend?
 
maybe the human race isn't evolved enough to live in anything other than a command and control economy :(
 
I give up, the brainwashing has been far too complete, lotsa folks are now kinda ok with the idea of socialism
but the mere mention of 'pure capitalism' makes em pee themselves, If good old fashioned communism
has been shown to kill millions of its own citizens and capitalism can be shown to have made America rich
then why in the blue blazes would anyone delude themselves into thinking 'pure capitalism' is evil?

I know why oh I so do and it makes me a sad sad Panda
 
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