If that's all there is to it, I won't get it.When you are expected to pay a certain percentage no matter what the quality of service is it becomes a surcharge.
I'm very generous as a tipper when attending a restaurant to eat and even when I'm receiving delivery of food at the door. These are people who generally receive less in wages because being tipped is part of the culture of the service they provide.
I do not tip for any food I pick up at a counter myself - I would no more tip the counter help at McDonalds or Swiss Chalet than I would if I was buying underwear at the local department store.
If people are going to be expecting tips every time they interact with others as part of their jobs,.then be assured that the counter help at the DMV or any other government service window won't be far behind
Then perhaps more people should do it.
You didn't strike me as one of those "fair wage" types.
I can believe that. I worked at an upscale restaurant as a bus boy for awhile. I walked out with $20 on Friday and Saturday nights, the waiters averaged over $100. That was almost 40 years ago.
I disagree about who can do it, though. Being a good waiter at an upscale place isn't that easy.
I have never tipped a government employee. (In the USA.)
How about tripped a government employee? And I note the "In the USA" comment -.perhaps you've travelled to some of the former countries of the British Commonwealth where greasing the palms of the powers that be is essential to getting processed in a timely manner
My experience is that it's usually been the hostess or manager that handles things since they are the one who answered the phone.
If I happen to know that a server is taking care of things then they get a tip but the times I run into that are few and far between (One exception, I order from a particular bar with some regularity and when I walk in they start making my order. Those folks all get tipped well)
Things generally work different around here, I guess. It's usually the cashier (which is also the asst mngr) where I often get take-out, the servers never do it that I've seen. I'm not saying they don't in other places, though. Customs and SOP differ from city to city.
That could be true....it also probably depends on the type of restaurant. Most full-service restaurants, unless they are a coffee-shop type restaurant, don't have a "cashier". Even those that do, often transfer the order to a server to handle the order. You may never know it.....most people who haven't worked in the food industry don't know the under-workings of the restaurant. What may appear to be the case, may in fact be quite different. Which is why I don't fault people for not tipping. I think most people would if they understood that the server is most of the time doing the work and is charged the sale for the purchase against their tips.
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Thanks for that info.
When I get take out, which is rare, it's usually from a take out joint, so I will continue to not tip there. However, if and when I do take out from a sit down restaurant, I will leave a tip.
I usually tip a little at a buffet because they usually do clear your plates off the table at least.
I usually tip a little at a buffet because they usually do clear your plates off the table at least.
Which is likely to be minimum wage.
When you order food to go from a restaurant and don't use table service do you leave a tip anyway? I mean, I don't tip at any fast food places or other places where you order at the counter so it's never occurred to me to tip at a regular restaurant if I order out. I figure that I'm not taking up any of the servers time as it's usually a hostess or the manager who handles things and they are usually getting a full wage instead of server rate.
Viewing tipping as a fee rather than as a gratuity is where we started falling off the boat, IMO. That's where the entitlement mentality comes from.You could look at it as an actual fee for the service rather than a surcharge on your food.
Essentially, that's what your tip is paying for-the service, not the food.
They provide a service for a fee. We get to unilaterally decide the price of the services we have already obtained.
De facto, servers work for the customer, not the restaurant. They just work AT the restaurant.
Most places anymore add the tip for large parties, at least. I do not approve of the concept, as it then literally turns into a fee and ceases to become a gratuity, but it's also not something so critical that I will make a scene over. Where I do stand on principle is that the percentage they give me is what they get (18% is most common). I refuse to give a penny more, even if the service was outstanding.I've seen hotel restaurants add tips for room service. I've never seen a regular restaurant do it unless it's a large party, then some of the more expensive ones do.
You underestimate what servers do. Most people can do the job, technically. Not all can do it well.Modestly...maybe 10% or so.
I wouldn't get me started on waitresses. If you think I crack on your profession, I go harder on waitresses. They make excellent money for work anyone can do. I worked with a guy who made almost 60 grand a year, and still made less than his wife as a full-time waitress at a reasonably upscale establishment. Not fair, if you ask me...but ah well.
I don't think he means surcharge in a literal sense, though if I understand him correctly I agree with him. The way I phrase it is that it has become an expectation, an entitlement mentality. An expectation that is no longer based on the quality of service, but rather the martyr-like feeling that the poor downtrodden workers are slaving away and taxed and underpaid... which isn't wholly untrue, they should be paid better to begin with... and hence it is OUR responsibility individually to make up for that. Tipping has ceased to become a gratuity for appreciation and evolved into an entitlement mentality.I understand what you are saying there. But what I don't get is the part where the tip stops being payment for services rendered and become a surcharge on the food instead.
I have never tipped a government employee. (In the USA.)
Tipping a government employee is a bribe. Which, is another mindset that I have encountered regarding tipping. It is known that many pizza delivery places keep lists of good and bad tipping addresses, and some of them will sabotage your pizza if you are tagged as a bad tipper. I know people who tip delivery people outrageously well to avoid this. In this sense it has degenerated into a simple bribe as well. When you're tipping is motivated not by good service, but rather wanting to prevent people dicking with their meal, then we have completely strayed from the purpose of tipping... not to mention tossed common decency out the window.How about tripped a government employee? And I note the "In the USA" comment - perhaps you've travelled to some of the former countries of the British Commonwealth where greasing the palms of the powers that be is essential to getting processed in a timely manner.
I sympathize with the tax part, but that's between the worker and the government. Not me as an individual. While there is work and time in putting together a bag, it's a one-time thing and only a few minutes. It's not like doting on a table for 45 minutes or more.That's a very common misconception. Generally, the hostess will take the order, but then turns it over to the server that is assigned take-out orders for the night. The server has to place the order and put it all together. They then, give it to the hostess who deals with the customer when they come in to pick up the order. You generally never see the server, but they are the ones doing the vast majority of the work...and the "sale" goes on their sales and against their tips.
W/e happened in the past aside, at this point it is a payment for services rendered. Tax code says so.Viewing tipping as a fee rather than as a gratuity is where we started falling off the boat, IMO. That's where the entitlement mentality comes from.
I don't see the objection to expecting to be compensated for services rendered.The way I phrase it is that it has become an expectation, an entitlement mentality. An expectation that is no longer based on the quality of service, but rather the martyr-like feeling that the poor downtrodden workers are slaving away and taxed and underpaid... which isn't wholly untrue, they should be paid better to begin with... and hence it is OUR responsibility individually to make up for that. Tipping has ceased to become a gratuity for appreciation and evolved into an entitlement mentality.
W/e happened in the past aside, at this point it is a payment for services rendered. Tax code says so.
Generally, people are "entitled" to be paid for services rendered.
I don't see the objection to expecting to be compensated for services rendered.
Whether the system is that restaurant pays the servers more money or the system is that the customer tips employees, the upshot is still that diners provide that money.
But only one of those systems provides diners with discretion.
I sympathize with the tax part, but that's between the worker and the government. Not me as an individual. While there is work and time in putting together a bag, it's a one-time thing and only a few minutes. It's not like doting on a table for 45 minutes or more.
Why?If it's for services rendered it should be a flat fee, mandatory.
Why not?At the diner's discretion implies competency is judged, which would be a gratuity. Pick one. You can't have both.
Why?
Why not?
Why can't people enter into a contract where party A agrees to perform a service for party B and let party B determine the compensation for that service?
I'm very generous as a tipper when attending a restaurant to eat and even when I'm receiving delivery of food at the door. These are people who generally receive less in wages because being tipped is part of the culture of the service they provide.
I do not tip for any food I pick up at a counter myself - I would no more tip the counter help at McDonalds or Swiss Chalet than I would if I was buying underwear at the local department store.
If people are going to be expecting tips every time they interact with others as part of their jobs, then be assured that the counter help at the DMV or any other government service window won't be far behind.
I suspect that servers don't ****-up someone's dining experience and then complain about not getting tipped. I suspect they complain when they provide acceptable service and then are not compensated.Then nobody should complain if they don't think they get enough.
Imho, the system is nice because it allows people who want to give more to give more and people who want to give less to give less. It empowers the customer and provides yet another incentive, ( a strong one at that ), for servers to meet the expectations of their guests.And this touches on another aspect of the whole issue. If you ask any experienced server, "Would you rather get paid a flat wage, say even $14/hr, or continue to be paid crap but get tips, which would you rather do?", pretty much every server would choose the current system. Why? Because, while they whine about individual slights, they know they'd lose money overall if they went to a straight wage system.
I suspect that servers don't ****-up someone's dining experience and then complain about not getting tipped. I suspect they complain when they provide acceptable service and then are not compensated.
If you go out to eat in the US where there is an expectation that diners will pay for services rendered, services are rendered, but payment is not received, isn't there grounds for being upset?
Just because you allow someone to make a decision, doesn't mean that you have to like that decision.
Otherwise, how could we complain about our govt representatives?
Imho, the system is nice because it allows people who want to give more to give more and people who want to give less to give less. It empowers the customer and provides yet another incentive, ( a strong one at that ), for servers to meet the expectations of their guests.
Certainly servers shouldn't complain that they received just compensation for ****ty service. But I suspect that they complain about not receiving appropriate compensation for good service.