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What is your level of formal education?

I have completed the following formal educations

  • None or very little

    Votes: 2 2.6%

  • Attended school, but did not graduate

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • GED or graduated from high school

    Votes: 18 23.7%

  • Some college

    Votes: 17 22.4%

  • 2 year college degree

    Votes: 15 19.7%

  • 4 year college degree

    Votes: 26 34.2%

  • formal education based technical degree/certification

    Votes: 15 19.7%

  • Military or other past-high school degree

    Votes: 10 13.2%

  • Lawyer, doctor, other high education degree

    Votes: 5 6.6%

  • Masters/PhD

    Votes: 27 35.5%
  • Total voters
    76
nota bene said:
You can't Google?
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I don't know who your response is for, but since I'm the only one who asked for a link....

I added a P.S. to my prior post before seeing this response. I have googled and binged...no information shows up as authorizing a recipient of an MFA to use the title "doctor." In fact, what does come up is information on Wikipedia that several colleges have either instituted or are trying to institute a PhD program for it, against some resistence from MFA recipients. Google that yourself.
 
Fisher said:
JD's are not considered terminal degrees. LLM's are above them
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that is not really true. Most Ivy league law professors, judges and top ranked attorneys only have JDs. there is actually an academic degree that is the real doctorate-I have only met one

most LLMs are for a specialization with TAX being the most popular. Another type of LLM is given to a foreign lawyer who wants some training in American law. We had several NATO JAG officers from Germany in my law school getting LLMs as well as a chief of police from Tokyo (who had his country's law degree)
 
Fisher said:
JD's are not considered terminal degrees. LLM's are above them
Click to expand...

Doctorates don't require they be "terminal degrees." As for LL.M's? A J.D. seldom indicates a specific area of law expertise unless you take additional course work to have it added to your degree...like a J.D. in criminal law. LL.M's are used for two purposes in the USA. The first is a short course program for students with foreign law degrees to give them comparable status in the USA. The second is to add a specific focus, like tax or corporate law to their J.D.

There are a few American Universities that offer a research degree called a S.J.D. which is equivilant to a Ph.D in law.

Still, while most attorneys/lawyers don't call themselves "Doctors," they are entitled to if they have a Juris Doctor (i.e. Doctor of Jurisprudence) degree. It just sounds silly, since we are not "medical professionals" like dentists and surgeons.
 
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TurtleDude said:
that is not really true. Most Ivy league law professors, judges and top ranked attorneys only have JDs. there is actually an academic degree that is the real doctorate-I have only met one

most LLMs are for a specialization with TAX being the most popular. Another type of LLM is given to a foreign lawyer who wants some training in American law. We had several NATO JAG officers from Germany in my law school getting LLMs as well as a chief of police from Tokyo (who had his country's law degree)
Click to expand...

That most people do not get them does not change that LLM's and JSD's are superior degrees to a standard JD
 
Captain Adverse said:
Doctorates don't require they be "terminal degrees." As for LL.M's? A J.D. seldom indicates a specific area of law expertise unless you take additional course work to have it added to your degree...like a J.D. in criminal law. LL.M's are used for two purposes in the USA. The first is a short course program for students with foreign law degrees to give them comparable status in the USA. The second is to add a specific focus, like tax or corporate law to their J.D.

There are a few American Universities that offer a research degree called a S.J.D. which is equivilant to a Ph.D in law.

Still, while most attorneys/lawyers don't call themselves "Doctors," they are entitled to if they have a Juris Doctor degree.
Click to expand...

Well let me put it to you a different way, colleges do not consider JD's terminal degrees in the field and a PHD equivalent when you pursue a professoring and pontificating job not involving law--they treat it as the same as a Masters :2wave:
 
Fisher said:
That most people do not get them does not change that LLM's and JSD's are superior degrees to a standard JD
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as I noted, depends. for the most part they are superfluous because unlike a PhD, the top law professor in the USA does not have anything above a JD and the most prestigious law jobs in the USA (Supreme court justices) don't have anything above that either for the most part

I have personally known three sterling professors of Constitutional law at Yale including Akhil Reed Amar (the current holder). That is the most prestigious legal professorship in the USA.

and John Roberts holds the most important law position in the USA-

you don't end up being the top professor in say history at Yale without a doctorate

so comparing PhDs with post JD degrees is really sort of stupid
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't know who your response is for, but since I'm the only one who asked for a link....

I added a P.S. to my prior post before seeing this response. I have googled and binged...no information shows up as authorizing a recipient of an MFA to use the title "doctor." In fact, what does come up is information on Wikipedia that several colleges have either instituted or are trying to institute a PhD program for it, against some resistence from MFA recipients. Google that yourself.
Click to expand...

I don't need to; I'm already familiar with the issue and have a very strong opinion on it too.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Doctorates don't require they be "terminal degrees." As for LL.M's? A J.D. seldom indicates a specific area of law expertise unless you take additional course work to have it added to your degree...like a J.D. in criminal law. LL.M's are used for two purposes in the USA. The first is a short course program for students with foreign law degrees to give them comparable status in the USA. The second is to add a specific focus, like tax or corporate law to their J.D.

There are a few American Universities that offer a research degree called a S.J.D. which is equivilant to a Ph.D in law.

Still, while most attorneys/lawyers don't call themselves "Doctors," they are entitled to if they have a Juris Doctor (i.e. Doctor of Jurisprudence) degree. It just sounds silly, since we are not "medical professionals" like dentists and surgeons.
Click to expand...

I got my masters (labor relations with a concentration in employment law) after my law degree. I was entitled to wear a doctoral robe to my masters graduation. I didn't go to it but I was told that I and the other JD in my class could have doctoral robes while everyone else was wearing a masters robe
 
Fisher said:
Well let me put it to you a different way, colleges do not consider JD's terminal degrees in the field and a PHD equivalent when you pursue a professoring and pontificating job not involving law--they treat it as the same as a Masters :2wave:
Click to expand...


Maybe where you are, but the lawyers who taught at my school had J.D.'s combined with practical experience. I don't know what YOUR law school required in order for a professor to teach. But most I've visited also only required a J.D.
 
TurtleDude said:
I got my masters (labor relations with a concentration in employment law) after my law degree. I was entitled to wear a doctoral robe to my masters graduation. I didn't go to it but I was told that I and the other JD in my class could have doctoral robes while everyone else was wearing a masters robe
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I wasn't told anything like that at all...but I didn't attend my graduation either. I did ask my dean though...she said it was a doctorate and explained what I explained here.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Maybe where you are, but the lawyers who taught at my school had J.D.'s combined with practical experience. I don't know what YOUR law school required in order for a professor to teach. But most I've visited also only required a J.D.
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did they also teach you that phrases such as "job not involving law" probably includes jobs not involved in teaching law or were you at the 21st Amendment Club meeting that day?
 
Fisher said:
That most people do not get them does not change that LLM's and JSD's are superior degrees to a standard JD
Click to expand...

You don't need and LL.M to get a specific focus over a J.D. I was going for a criminal defense speciality which required a certain number of additional hours. I was advised against it, since a general J.D. is accepted just about everywhere whereas a focused one on your wall might make clients think you did not have skills in other areas.
 
Fisher said:
did they also teach you that phrases such as "job not involving law" probably includes jobs not involved in teaching law or were you at the 21st Amendment Club meeting that day?
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The University at which I teach allows for those with a Juris Doctorate to teach law and some lower level political science courses, the latter as an adjunct. In many cases it depends on the school, at least from my experience. Some people are appalled and offended that anyone would consider a J.D. a "doctorate." Others are not so picky. And, depending on the law school one attends, much of the curriculum is comparable to that of graduate school. So in reality, it is a bit of a gray area, again, the bulk of which is due to different schools.
 
Fisher said:
did they also teach you that phrases such as "job not involving law" probably includes jobs not involved in teaching law or were you at the 21st Amendment Club meeting that day?
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WTF?? I must have been asleep that day; parse that for me please in terms of what we are talking about?
 
And they aren't addressed by their students as "doctor"?! How are they listed when they present at academic conferences? I ask because although creative writing folks don't generally present at the same ones, they do at a few biggies, and they are always introduced with that honorific title.
 
nota bene said:
And they aren't addressed by their students as "doctor"?! How are they listed when they present at academic conferences? I ask because although creative writing folks don't generally present at the same ones, they do at a few biggies, and they are always introduced with that honorific title.
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It was a first name basis where I went.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Please show me some link proving that. I've never heard of any person with a Master's degree being authorized to use the title Doctor.

P.S. ...and after searching the net I still can't FIND any indication that an MFA grants the recipient the right to the title "Doctor."
Click to expand...

Psst... it's fine arts. They call themselves doctors because they're acting.
 
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