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Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

Which is more crucial

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CLAX1911 said:
And the United states supreme court agrees that it does not have that power.

Wisconsin v. Yoder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You don't have to attend public school. And besides nobody has suggested that the federal government is involved in education. The tenth amendment made that a state right.
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Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205 (1972), is the case in which the United States Supreme Court found that Amish children could not be placed under compulsory education past 8th grade. The parents' fundamental right to freedom of religion outweighed the state's interest in educating its children.


compulsory education......note the word "compulsory"

Some kind of education is compulsory to all people in most countries, but different localities vary in how many years or grades of education they require. Due to population growth and the proliferation of compulsory education, UNESCO calculated in 2006 that over the subsequent 30 years more people would receive formal education than in all prior human history.[11] It is possible in many countries for parents to provide education for children by homeschooling, although this is often monitored for adherence to national standards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_education

United States about 6-17 Varies by state. Beginning age varies 5-8, ending age varies 15-18.[17] Some states allow early leave with parental approval.
 

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ernst barkmann said:
you wish to listen to men, who wish to use the constitution for there own vises.

i choose to listen to a man who laid its foundation.......who stated clearly the government is not supposed to be in education. and i posted his statement already showing you that he said it.
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No,I understand the nature of language. I understand that what seems clear seldom is. That's why I've a better recording predicting the court than you and others.
 
ernst barkmann said:
what does delegated power mean to you?
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Too narrow a question. Words never stand by themselves. The document is rather large and within a context. That is why you often see reality different than you believe it should be.
 
Boo Radley said:
Same response as above.
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He is pretending he people are bring forced to attended public school, this is dead wrong, the supreme court ruled on this you have the right to opt out of public school in all fifty states, no exceptions.

If the force is paying taxes to local school districts, that is simply reality. I have to pay taxes to things I don't agree with, everyday does. That is life.

But parents to lazy or too cheap to opt out are not forced, their children's education is simply not a priority to them until their kids are told that it's okay to be gay. They are imprinting their prejudice onto their children, they are free to do that but they can't demand that the school do it.
 
Boo Radley said:
Too narrow a question. Words never stand by themselves. The document is rather large and within a context. That is why you often see reality different than you believe it should be.
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nothing narrow about it.

the founders state government has 18 powers only and they are enumerated clearly, anything outside them is unconstitutional.

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined . . . to be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce.” – James Madison, Federalist 45

No legislative act … contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 78
 
CLAX1911 said:
He is pretending he people are bring forced to attended public school, this is dead wrong, the supreme court ruled on this you have the right to opt out of public school in all fifty states, no exceptions.

If the force is paying taxes to local school districts, that is simply reality. I have to pay taxes to things I don't agree with, everyday does. That is life.

But parents to lazy or too cheap to opt out are not forced, their children's education is simply not a priority to them until their kids are told that it's okay to be gay. They are imprinting their prejudice onto their children, they are free to do that but they can't demand that the school do it.
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sorry schooling is mandated.... its not optional.

now if you home school or private school , when you not mandated to go to public school....but one takes a parents time, and the other one's own money
 
ernst barkmann said:
Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205 (1972), is the case in which the United States Supreme Court found that Amish children could not be [COLOR="#FF0placed under compulsory education[/COLOR] past 8th grade. The parents' fundamental right to freedom of religion outweighed the state's interest in educating its children.
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That applies to all religions, first amendment.

compulsory education......note the word "compulsory"
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I read thus the first thousand times you said it, there is no compulsory action mandating children attend public school. Your claim was false the first time you said it, that has not changed.
Some kind of education is compulsory to all people in most countries, but different localities vary in how many years or grades of education they require. Due to population growth and the proliferation of compulsory education, UNESCO calculated in 2006 that over the subsequent 30 years more people would receive formal education than in all prior human history.[11] It is possible in many countries for parents to provide education for children by homeschooling, although this is often monitored for adherence to national standards.
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all countries aren't controlled by the rights we enjoy here. I can't effect other countries and theirviewson education. So I am not interested in what happens in other countries.

United States about 6-17 Varies by state. Beginning age varies 5-8, ending age varies 15-18.[17] Some states allow early leave with parental approval.
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That had nothing to do what so ever with the option to opt out of public school. So thus didn't have anything to do with the conversation.
 
ernst barkmann said:
nothing narrow about it.

the founders state government has 18 powers only and they are enumerated clearly, anything outside them is unconstitutional.

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined . . . to be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce.” – James Madison, Federalist 45

No legislative act … contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 78
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Again, I've linked differing opinions by people who actually know something. You can rant all day, but the reality has already proven you wrong.
 
lizzie;1062124843[QUOTE said:
]I guess it's a good thing that I don't depend on majority opinion to form my views. :
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)[/QUOTE]




I believe in letting the majority do what they want to do and then I just go right ahead and do whatever I want to do.

Sometimes called: The shrubnose Principle.
 
ernst barkmann said:
sorry schooling is mandated.... its not optional.
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Of course it is, i never said it wasn't. It's just not mandated that everybody be educated by public school.
now if you home school or private school , when you not mandated to go to public school....but one takes a parents time, and the other one's own money
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so? Spend the money or time for education you believe is better, or don't. If your child being in an education system that says gay is not okay, spend the time or money for that. But if you are upset that the school is teaching children that it's okay to be different and you don't like that and you don't do anything about it, that isn't force, that is lazy cheapness.

Fact is nobody is forced to be in public school, lazy and cheap parents that demand the school support their biases, that is force. That doesn't fly.

Public schools shouldn't entertain parents biases, if they want their kids to share their biases, either attend private schools, home school, or better yet take ten minuets to talk to your children and tell them that gay people are bad or that they are bad for being gay. Or whatever bias you want them to imprint. My parents did that with me.
 
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CLAX1911 said:
Of course it is, i never said it wasn't. It's just not mandated that everybody be educated by public school.
so? Spend the money or time for education you believe is better, or don't. If your child being in an education system that says gay is not okay, spend the time or money for that. But if you are upset that the school is teaching children that it's okay to be different and you don't like that and you don't do anything about it, that isn't force, that is lazy cheapness.

Fact is nobody is forced to be in public school, lazy and cheap parents that demand the school support their biases, that is force. That doesn't fly.

Public schools shouldn't entertain parents biases, if they want their kids to share their biases, either attend private schools, home school, or better yet take ten minuets to talk to your children and tell them that gay people are bad or that they are bad for being gay. Or whatever bias you want them to imprint. My parents did that with me.
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i know this i have stated it before...HOWEVER the state will NOT give parents their tax payer money for different schools.

many parents cannot afford to send their children to a different school and pay for it, so they are mandated then to a public school, ..i say give the parents vouchers, and let them go elsewhere, however the public schools fights this idea.

they are not having any bias, they are stating i dont want my child taught something...how is that a bias?
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, I've linked differing opinions by people who actually know something. You can rant all day, but the reality has already proven you wrong.
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sorry your people dont know a point of a pin head to Madison on the constitution.

note to you----- Madison was laying the foundation of the constitution months before the constitutional convention ever took place.
 
ernst barkmann said:
the power of force is never acceptable thing in a true in a free society.
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Way to not defend your source, nor to refute anything I said or the facts and links I provided. Your source flat out lied, it distorted, it twisted, it failed to back up claims. You got busted using a nonsense source. Trying to change that into something else is doomed to fail.
 
Redress said:
Way to not defend your source, nor to refute anything I said or the facts and links I provided. Your source flat out lied, it distorted, it twisted, it failed to back up claims. You got busted using a nonsense source. Trying to change that into something else is doomed to fail.
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bull, its what i said all along, no one should be force to be taught something which goes against what they have already been taught.

you on the other hand want to force your way of thinking on to other people, ..becuase you deem your valves to be right...and you dont have that authority
 
shrubnose said:
That is the rule which states that you will evolve, whether you like it or not.
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Well that works great for nature... not so much in religion.
 
ernst barkmann said:
sorry your people dont know a point of a pin head to Madison on the constitution.

note to you----- Madison was laying the foundation of the constitution months before the constitutional convention ever took place.
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Again, I've linked people who do. People who know more than you do. You don't know enough to address, their points, which is why you repeat the same thing over and over.
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, I've linked people who do. People who know more than you do. You don't know enough to address, their points, which is why you repeat the same thing over and over.
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sorry .......but i posted what Madison said, and your links, will never measure up to him.
 
ernst barkmann said:
sorry .......but i posted what Madison said, and your links, will never measure up to him.
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Even at the time not everyone accepted Madison's interpretation of the final document, so don't act like he was the King and the Constitution was His Royal Mandate. :roll:
 
ernst barkmann said:
sorry .......but i posted what Madison said, and your links, will never measure up to him.
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Sorry, but that doesn't address the points. We have no real idea how the founding fathers would have adapted as the years rolled on. We do know that in their time, they did adapt. They did move from their first effort. They did strengthen the federal government from their first effort. Like the evangelical, you're too fixed on a literal reading that ignores two hundred years of history. And just as they do, too often you misread the meaning and don't connect all the dots.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Even at the time not everyone accepted Madison's interpretation of the final document, so don't act like he was the King and the Constitution was His Royal Mandate. :roll:
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he's king over the constitution and its meaning, over anybody you can put forth.
 
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