• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

Which is more crucial

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
lolabird said:
Then why do students run for class president?
Click to expand...

i mean the government with an agenda.....a student lead agenda, is not going change the shape of the world.

i want the federal government out of our schools, becuase its unconstitutional for them to be there.....education is not in the constitution
 
Redress said:
Oddly, one of my favorite teachers was a very loudly conservative republican government teacher. He taught me to question and stand up for what I believe in.
Click to expand...

there is no problem standing up for what you believe in....thats a good strait.

however then a person or entity , wants to force others to believe in their ideas, that is where we have problems.
 
ernst barkmann said:
i know what you believe.

your from the left, and i have argued with many many people of the left over this position, ...and that position is always the same .

AGENT J [who loves this kind of discussion ]........ has stated to me, "people will be forced to accept homosexuality "

it is fact that wherever homosexual relationships has been had legal by the state, the subject is brought into the public schools of those states next, and force applied to people over it...and people wonder why other people are opposed to gay marriage.

if government would get out of the business of trying to force things on the people, you would see opposition to gay marriage less than it is now.
Click to expand...

So many things wrong here. What you think "the left" believes, and what I believe are two different things. Your fact​ isn't. The government is not trying to force anything on you in regards to gays and SSM.
 
ernst barkmann said:
there is no problem standing up for what you believe in....thats a good strait.

however then a person or entity , wants to force others to believe in their ideas, that is where we have problems.
Click to expand...

You cannot force any one to believe anything.
 
Redress said:
You cannot force any one to believe anything.
Click to expand...

oh, say not so.....when gay marriage was made legal in MASS. it was brought in to the classes rooms of the schools very quickly, ........that gay marriage just a normal thing.

however many parents complained and objected to it being taught to there children, to which the state said ..."to bad they are going to learn it anyway".

then the parents wanted their tax money for schools to be given to them, so they could send there children to a school of their choice, the state said no ,...........you cannot have your money.

so they are taking people's money [ and will not give it back, and many people cannot afford to pay for their childs education], and mandating that their children go to public schools and be taught things the parents disagree with.
 
Redress said:
So many things wrong here. What you think "the left" believes, and what I believe are two different things. Your fact​ isn't. The government is not trying to force anything on you in regards to gays and SSM.
Click to expand...

no?..... government has forced the teaching of the gay agenda, wherever gay marriage has been made legal,......with CA being about the worst offender.

government applies force to the people all the time, to make them do things, just becuase government wants us to do it, even though they have no such authority.
 
ernst barkmann said:
oh, say not so.....when gay marriage was made legal in MASS. it was brought in to the classes rooms of the schools very quickly, ........that gay marriage just a normal thing.

however many parents complained and objected to it being taught to there children, to which the state said ..."to bad they are going to learn it anyway".

then the parents wanted their tax money for schools to be given to them, so they could send there children to a school of their choice, the state said no ,...........you cannot have your money.

so they are taking people's money [ and will not give it back, and many people cannot afford to pay for their childs education], and mandating that their children go to public schools and be taught things the parents disagree with.
Click to expand...

As a republic, it's members do not PERSONALLY decide how to allocate their tax dollars, so the money argument is moot.

How old are the children you're talking about and in what class exactly are they 'teaching' gay marriage? Just curious.
 
iguanaman said:
Science class is not the place for ancient history either. Bibles don't belong in public school...EVER. Or Korans for that matter unless the class is Religion and then we need to teach ALL religions equally.
Click to expand...

Then how are we to teach the history that created and shaped our society today and continues to influence it? Besides history, there is also government. Maybe sociology.
 
Ikari said:
Does that make historical fiction novels true too?
Click to expand...

No. Because those portions that are fictional can be shown to be fictional. However, the bible has not been proven to be fictional and archeology continues to prove more and more of it.
 
ForcedAppeal said:
As a republic, it's members do not PERSONALLY decide how to allocate their tax dollars, so the money argument is moot.

How old are the children you're talking about and in what class exactly are they 'teaching' gay marriage? Just curious.
Click to expand...


taxes are gathered and used for the benefit of all.

however when the people in charge of institution use that tax money, to put forth and promote an agenda....that is the problem...and its being done a lot today .

the agenda has been that homosexuality is fine and good, normal.....if someone wants to believe that...thats fine with me.

but dont demand and tell others that they must believe it too using the school system.
 
Redress said:
There is at least as much that science and archaeology show to not be literally true as what is known to be true. For example we know that the Israelites where not where the old testament claims on multiple occasions.
Click to expand...

Which ones? You mean like in the land of the Canaanites during the 10th Century BC, oops, that is right, a discovery last year is no believed to prove that they were. Some also believe they have found the site of the battle between David and Goliath (who in modern times would of been a Palestinian, they were trying to kill Israeli's even back then).

Or maybe the belief that Augustus Caesar never ordered the census/tax that lead Joseph back to Bethlehem, oops, they have not found documentation of that also.
 
ernst barkmann said:
however when the people in charge of institution use that tax money, to put forth and promote an agenda....that is the problem...and its being done a lot today .
Click to expand...

Every single credit or tax deduction on your tax return is someone's agenda codified into law. Tax dollars have always been collected and spent based on varying agendas that may or may not be good for the nation or you as a member of the nation. What are ya gonna do?
 
ForcedAppeal said:
Every single credit or tax deduction on your tax return is someone's agenda codified into law. Tax dollars have always been collected and spent based on varying agendas that may or may not be good for the nation or you as a member of the nation. What are ya gonna do?
Click to expand...

well i agree with you, those who have power always use it , to move the ball in their favor.

which is why i am a libertarian, and the idea is to secure the rights of the people, and leave them alone.
 
ernst barkmann said:
oh, say not so.....when gay marriage was made legal in MASS. it was brought in to the classes rooms of the schools very quickly, ........that gay marriage just a normal thing.

however many parents complained and objected to it being taught to there children, to which the state said ..."to bad they are going to learn it anyway".

then the parents wanted their tax money for schools to be given to them, so they could send there children to a school of their choice, the state said no ,...........you cannot have your money.

so they are taking people's money [ and will not give it back, and many people cannot afford to pay for their childs education], and mandating that their children go to public schools and be taught things the parents disagree with.
Click to expand...

Care to document exactly what you are talking about?
 
ernst barkmann said:
no?..... government has forced the teaching of the gay agenda, wherever gay marriage has been made legal,......with CA being about the worst offender.

government applies force to the people all the time, to make them do things, just becuase government wants us to do it, even though they have no such authority.
Click to expand...

What the **** is the gay agenda? You would think I would know...
 
Redress said:
What the **** is the gay agenda? You would think I would know...
Click to expand...

it is the idea that homosexuality is normal and good,nothing wrong with it.........and thats ok for people who wish to believe that way.

however there are people who dont believe that, and their concerns are not being heard, and listened to, and overruled.
 
ernst barkmann said:
well i agree with you, those who have power always use it , to move the ball in their favor.

which is why i am a libertarian, and the idea is to secure the rights of the people, and leave them alone.
Click to expand...

People won't realize what they've lost until it is way too late.
 
Redress said:
How about from a non fringe element lunatic source.
Click to expand...


you asked me for proof, and i gave you one...and they have cases stated, taking about subjects of the public schools concerning homosexuality............then you are going to throw it out the window, becuase you dont like it.....
 
Last edited:
ernst barkmann said:
i know what you believe.

your from the left, and i have argued with many many people of the left over this position, ...and that position is always the same .

AGENT J [who loves this kind of discussion ]........ has stated to me, "people will be forced to accept homosexuality "

it is fact that wherever homosexual relationships has been had legal by the state, the subject is brought into the public schools of those states next, and force applied to people over it...and people wonder why other people are opposed to gay marriage.

if government would get out of the business of trying to force things on the people, you would see opposition to gay marriage less than it is now.
Click to expand...

If only that were true but history tells us that bigotry of all kinds does not lend itself to voluntary abolition. Just look at the 100 years that the blacks waited and it STILL took a Constitutional amendment and Federal enforcement to end segregation. Bigotry is passed on through parents and it is only common sense that schools need to play a role in opposing bigotry.
Did you think that schools teaching that segregation of blacks was wrong were "forcing things on people" too?
 
iguanaman said:
If only that were true but history tells us that bigotry of all kinds does not lend itself to voluntary abolition. Just look at the 100 years that the blacks waited and it STILL took a Constitutional amendment and Federal enforcement to end segregation. Bigotry is passed on through parents and it is only common sense that schools need to play a role in opposing bigotry.
Did you think that schools teaching that segregation of blacks was wrong were "forcing things on people" too?
Click to expand...

whether someone teaches their children to be a bigot or not...its not ours or anyone's else business to teach them differently, ..you and government are not the parents of the child..when did children become the property of the state.

government is not here to make us moral or immoral, becuase government is composed of people who have their own set of values.

i am not for government teaching anyone to be against anyone, but in the same breath i not for government telling people they WILL learn XYZ.

a person's behavior is not yours or government's affair, if that person has committed no crime...........you and government want to shape people to your liking....and thats not right.
 
Dooble said:
I think the Left disagrees with you.
Click to expand...

I think you don't know what 'left' means. I'm so far left I'm illegal in 12 states and I say that not only can't evolution be mandated, it's probably getting close to some nazi, state-controlled eugenics scheme to suggest it can.
 
ernst barkmann said:
it is the idea that homosexuality is normal and good,nothing wrong with it.........and thats ok for people who wish to believe that way.

however there are people who dont believe that, and their concerns are not being heard, and listened to, and overruled.
Click to expand...

'wish to believe', is that like deciding how to feel? And as for the people who 'don't believe that', their concerns have been heard, listened to and made the law of the land. Recently, it's been brought up that maybe the concerns of a few shouldn't be the law of the land and this has caused all the moral outrage. Do you think the state has the right to 'mandate' morality?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom