Should we take steps to remove the social stigma on polyandry and polygamy?

MusicAdventurer said:

OK... for arguments sake though... lets say these types of relationships were encouraged so much that they were no longer counterculture and became mainstream. I am not sure this would happen unless most men slowly became babbling idiots, but for arguments sake, lets say it did. Lets say polygamy became the norm. How many pissed off men do you think there would be in the world? Sure the few men with all the money most certainly would consent and the women would hesitantly consent.... however.... I am not sure how impressed all the single men would be about it!! LOL! In all reality, it would probably be a recipe for disaster for society (read about the effects of having sex compared to not having sex). So really... no harm done right?

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Its my understanding that "one man one woman" marriage was adopted BECAUSE of the problems you relate.

Too many problems associated with unattached young males.

This thread seems to have lost track of the OP. Aren't we discussing polyandry, not polygamy? Or am I confused?

specklebang said:

This thread seems to have lost track of the OP. Aren't we discussing polyandry, not polygamy? Or am I confused?

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The OP is just talking about plural marriage in general (polygamy). I think he didn't realize what he wrote (term wise) or forgot which each term is or just jumbled them up. No biggie - happens often because there are 3 terms and they're easily confused.

Polygamy = marriage involving more than 2 partners, gender unspecified . . . can be either of the following:

Polyandry = marriage of one female, multiple males. (Poly = many. Andry = male)
Polygyny = marriage of one male, multiple females. (Poly = many. Gyny = female)

Dooble said:

"Hi, I'm Randy. I have sixteen wives and one husband. My girlfriend thinks I'm not very enlightened having just one male spouse, but what does she know? She's just the mistress".

Ah, the carnal charms of unfettered Socialism....

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This has NOTHING to do with socialism, fettered or unfettered.
IF anything its conservative...the old ways...old Mormon, some Islam.....maybe...

Aunt Spiker said:

The OP is just talking about plural marriage in general (polygamy). I think he didn't realize what he wrote (term wise) or forgot which each term is or just jumbled them up. No biggie - happens often because there are 3 terms and they're easily confused.

Polygamy = marriage involving more than 2 partners, gender unspecified . . . can be either of the following:

Polyandry = marriage of one female, multiple males. (Poly = many. Andry = male)
Polygyny = marriage of one male, multiple females. (Poly = many. Gyny = female)

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Yes this is correct... its about polygamy (i.e. polyandry and polygyny) just jumbled the terms.. lol!

Dooble said:

"Hi, I'm Randy. I have sixteen wives and one husband. My girlfriend thinks I'm not very enlightened having just one male spouse, but what does she know? She's just the mistress".

Ah, the carnal charms of unfettered Socialism....

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Yes, because polygamy as it currently exists is famously practiced mostly by lefties.....

If it's an issue for you, it's largely a conservative issue. My advice is to clean up your own house before worrying about others'.

specklebang said:

Do explain...polyandry defined: A pattern of mating in which a female animal has more than one male mate

•••It is much easier for a woman to satisfy and be satisfied by multiple males than the other way around. Do I really have to graphically explain this? Or do you understand the difference between male and female genitalia.

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OK, now I see what you are saying.... not that I necessarily agree, I just understand that you have this belief... however, I am more curious about the effects on society in general. For example, if one woman were to hoard many men, there would be many woman out there without mates. So would this really be the best things for society?

specklebang said:

Interesting opinion, but studies have shown that these alternative arrangements are a counterculture and stigmatized.
•••Yes. It's an opinion. Who are these people that stigmatize this? How do they even know about it? What does it matter? Who cares?

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Apparently you do not. I suppose I am wondering too, if legitimizing these types of arrangements would be a further act of supporting them. And would that be a good thing?

specklebang said:

In what way do you feel they are not stigmatized?
•••How can you ask me to prove a negative? In what way are you not a mass murderer?

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Well, I suppose it seemed obvious to me that they were stigmatized. Especially since its still illegal; i.e. the government won't sanction it with legal marriage. What do other people think?

Then no doubt my responses made little sense.

The argument against Polygamy in the form of polygyny has been discussed to death. Polyandry has not. Since I thought we were discussing polyandry, not polygamy, I simply pointed out that one womaqn can take care of the needs of many men whereas men, despite their boasts, are not able to take care of many women.

Polygyny is much more subject to abuse than polyandry. So maybe polygyny does have a stigma because the image is that the women are somehow captives.

Thanks for clearing that up. I learn something every day.

Aunt Spiker said:

The OP is just talking about plural marriage in general (polygamy). I think he didn't realize what he wrote (term wise) or forgot which each term is or just jumbled them up. No biggie - happens often because there are 3 terms and they're easily confused.

Polygamy = marriage involving more than 2 partners, gender unspecified . . . can be either of the following:

Polyandry = marriage of one female, multiple males. (Poly = many. Andry = male)
Polygyny = marriage of one male, multiple females. (Poly = many. Gyny = female)

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OK, now I see what you are saying.... not that I necessarily agree, I just understand that you have this belief... however, I am more curious about the effects on society in general. For example, if one woman were to hoard many men, there would be many woman out there without mates. So would this really be the best things for society?
•••You don't agree that it's easier for one woman to service many men more easily than one man to service many women?

As far s societal impact, this form of relating is relatively rare and IMHO will have zero impact on society. How many women do you know that have had multiple exclusive relationships with men? There are some, I've met them, but it's really, really rare.

We are just now getting around to legalizing gay marriage and that affects far more people than polyandry does. So if government sanction is how you view stigmatization - sure, you win the argument. Again IMHO, legitimizing is meaningless. The only stigma I see for polyandry is jealousy

MusicAdventurer said:

OK, now I see what you are saying.... not that I necessarily agree, I just understand that you have this belief... however, I am more curious about the effects on society in general. For example, if one woman were to hoard many men, there would be many woman out there without mates. So would this really be the best things for society?



Apparently you do not. I suppose I am wondering too, if legitimizing these types of arrangements would be a further act of supporting them. And would that be a good thing?



Well, I suppose it seemed obvious to me that they were stigmatized. Especially since its still illegal; i.e. the government won't sanction it with legal marriage. What do other people think?

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specklebang said:

I simply pointed out that one womaqn can take care of the needs of many men whereas men, despite their boasts, are not able to take care of many women.

Polygyny is much more subject to abuse than polyandry.

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Perhaps some woman need more than one man and perhaps some men are incompetent - we could go round and round with that one

My main concern is what effect would it have on society. Since polygyny is much much more common than polyandry, its hard to site reliable evidence, so on the polyandry end of the spectrum, we are speaking purely theoretically.

The problem on the polygymy end is that in the past, these arrangements have usually happened under circumstances that are arguably detrimental to women. An obvious situation that may not be so detrimental may be Hugh Hefner and his girls.

Still, most of the arguments for either end of the spectrum would be theoretical in nature. My position is that I don't think we'll see much changing in the future since both are problematic for society and most men and woman would not being on the negative end of either spectrum. E.G. most men wouldn't be very happy on the polygyny end and most women wouldn't be very happy on the polyandry end.

Still, I have heard some people crying out for legal legitimization either types of the marriage... I suppose this post is for them

No variant of polygamy will ever be legalized. These are informal arrangements made by polyamorous people who form a group and call it a marriage. I'm pretty open minded but even I can't imagine the legal complexities of extending the legal marriage beyond 2 partners.

Honestly, there is so little demand that even if it were somehow legalized, I doubt there would be much societal impact.

MusicAdventurer said:

Perhaps some woman need more than one man and perhaps some men are incompetent - we could go round and round with that one

My main concern is what effect would it have on society. Since polygyny is much much more common than polyandry, its hard to site reliable evidence, so on the polyandry end of the spectrum, we are speaking purely theoretically.

The problem on the polygymy end is that in the past, these arrangements have usually happened under circumstances that are arguably detrimental to women. An obvious situation that may not be so detrimental may be Hugh Hefner and his girls.

Still, most of the arguments for either end of the spectrum would be theoretical in nature. My position is that I don't think we'll see much changing in the future since both are problematic for society and most men and woman would not being on the negative end of either spectrum. E.G. most men wouldn't be very happy on the polygyny end and most women wouldn't be very happy on the polyandry end.

Still, I have heard some people crying out for legal legitimization either types of the marriage... I suppose this post is for them

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specklebang said:

No variant of polygamy will ever be legalized. These are informal arrangements made by polyamorous people who form a group and call it a marriage. I'm pretty open minded but even I can't imagine the legal complexities of extending the legal marriage beyond 2 partners.

Honestly, there is so little demand that even if it were somehow legalized, I doubt there would be much societal impact.

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I mostly agree - However, I think that if it somehow were legalized, then there would be a whole lot more polyamorous people than there are now - which may be cause for concern... this is all hypothetical at this point

My answer from a simple personal choice view - As long as no crime/coersion/abuse is happening and all parties are adults, I see nothing wrong with poly relationships. I am a bit of a hippie on this topic, and I do not go around judging alternative relationship choices. I consider that kind of behavior arrogant at the very least. If poly works for some, and everyone is acceptably happy and fulfilled, awesome. I do not believe it necessary to remove "social stigmas" for poly relationships at all. It would serve no valid purpose imo. I know a few sets of poly's and they do not go around advertising what relationship they practice, thus avoiding stigma.

My answer from the cultural/societal function perspective - I am not sure that the effects of poly relationships on resources, evolution, etc would even be measurable. So few people have the ability to maintain such a relationship in a healthy manner that the practice would be a miniscule minority. And in the modern age in the US, resources etc aren't really factors for most people in choice of relationship partners or styles.

If we (self and spouse) met a female that we cared for, thought worthy of including, and obviously willing, I would go poly in a heartbeat. No doubt about it. But I would not expect any significant societal reprocussions, impacts or acceptance.

Recognizing poly as a legitimate form of marriage is never going to happen. Massive changes in tax law etc would have to be made among a list of other issues. Gees just look at how long homosexuals have been denied the legal protections of marriage and what they have had to go through to get as far as they have. Still no dispensing of social stigma for them either...

Actually, there is plenty of polyamory going on right now. Married people are cheating. Single people are playing the field. Maybe they don't call it polyamory, but that's what it is and whatever impact it has already exists.

It's highly impractical to "legalize" it, in that the structures for taxes, property and children would be bewildering. However, it isn't at all illegal to practice polyamory.

Let's try an experiment:

Is there anyone here, male or female, who wants to MARRY more than one other person or are you content to be with just one person and/or screw around? Pleae be honest about this. I'm not asking if you want multiple partners, I'm asking if you want to MARRY multiple partners.

MusicAdventurer said:

I mostly agree - However, I think that if it somehow were legalized, then there would be a whole lot more polyamorous people than there are now - which may be cause for concern... this is all hypothetical at this point

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specklebang said:

Actually, there is plenty of polyamory going on right now. Married people are cheating. Single people are playing the field. Maybe they don't call it polyamory, but that's what it is and whatever impact it has already exists.

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Most call that serial monogamy... but yeah.

Let's try an experiment:

Is there anyone here, male or female, who wants to MARRY more than one other person or are you content to be with just one person and/or screw around? Pleae be honest about this. I'm not asking if you want multiple partners, I'm asking if you want to MARRY multiple partners.

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I am completely open to a committed poly marriage with the right person as agreed to by my spouse. But I do not go out of my way to pursue it either. I am perfectly happy with my relationship as is. Why do you ask?

Serial monogamy is exactly that - serial monogamy. That wasn't really what I was referring to though. Instead, I'm referring to adultery and multiple partners, which is no form of monogamy.

So, have you told your life-partner about this? Are you actively seeking and hoping for a second partner that you would be willing to make a legal commitment to? I so, what's stopping you?

I asked because I wanted to see how many responses I would get from anone that was actually interested in this. I think it's not many, and those are more like fantasies.

HelplessHoping said:

Most call that serial monogamy... but yeah.



I am completely open to a committed poly marriage with the right person as agreed to by my spouse. But I do not go out of my way to pursue it either. I am perfectly happy with my relationship as is. Why do you ask?

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specklebang said:

Serial monogamy is exactly that - serial monogamy. That wasn't really what I was referring to though. Instead, I'm referring to adultery and multiple partners, which is no form of monogamy.

So, have you told your life-partner about this? Are you actively seeking and hoping for a second partner that you would be willing to make a legal commitment to? I so, what's stopping you?

I asked because I wanted to see how many responses I would get from anone that was actually interested in this. I think it's not many, and those are more like fantasies.

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The number of people seriously interested in this kind of relationship? Very few. Even fewer know how to keep one together. It is a bit more complicated than monogamy. I am not sure what business it is of yours who I have told... However, I will tell you...

My spouse and I are both interested and would do it IF the right woman came along. Of COURSE I have told my spouse! Why wouldn't I? What would my marriage be worth if I could not tell my spouse about something like this?

Not in pursuit.. IF the right woman comes along... she does. If not, she does not. My spouse and I are very picky about people. Not regarding looks ... Much more important things. So far, no one quite meets the standards.

Well, that was my point, wasn't it? Sure, I'm familiar with alternative lifestyles. I participated in the sexual emergence of the humanism movement in the 70s/80s. Even now I have friends that are active in the polyamory community. Even I, a near-dead, never sleep with the same woman twice. All I'm saying is the percentage of people sincerely involved (that would actually want an alternative marriage) is minuscule and no laws need to be changed over this.

Thank you for your openness. I hope you meet the girl (or guy) of your dreams and live happily ever after. Sincerely.

HelplessHoping said:

The number of people seriously interested in this kind of relationship? Very few. Even fewer know how to keep one together. It is a bit more complicated than monogamy. I am not sure what business it is of yours who I have told... However, I will tell you...

My spouse and I are both interested and would do it IF the right woman came along. Of COURSE I have told my spouse! Why wouldn't I? What would my marriage be worth if I could not tell my spouse about something like this?

Not in pursuit.. IF the right woman comes along... she does. If not, she does not. My spouse and I are very picky about people. Not regarding looks ... Much more important things. So far, no one quite meets the standards.

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specklebang said:

Well, that was my point, wasn't it? Sure, I'm familiar with alternative lifestyles. I participated in the sexual emergence of the humanism movement in the 70s/80s. Even now I have friends that are active in the polyamory community. Even I, a near-dead, never sleep with the same woman twice. All I'm saying is the percentage of people sincerely involved (that would actually want an alternative marriage) is minuscule and no laws need to be changed over this.

Thank you for your openness. I hope you meet the girl (or guy) of your dreams and live happily ever after. Sincerely.

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Many get into this for the express purpose of sleeping with many people without regard to emotional/relationship investment. Im not one of them.. and yeah no laws need be changed. In addition, no one owes polys validation or approval. Screw stigmas and the people they ride in on.

Oh and .. I already have the man of my dreams...most of the time anyway LOLOL and.. thank you for the convo sans the judgement narrative. Much appreciated!

It is a waste of resources and destructive to try to prevent other CONSENTING ADULTS from having the relationships they want. Gender equality under the law is necessary for polygamy, as where people cite abuses, it is generally that women and children are not being protected. I support the idea that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.