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Rasmussen Poll Says Blacks Are More Racist Than Whites [W:358]

Do you agree?

  • Total voters
    59
Rasmussen Poll Says Blacks Are More Racist Than Whites

ThePlayDrive said:
Here's the problem with your argument. It boils down to "black people need to hurry up and get over the past at the pace that I approve of." That's ridiculous. Historically, groups who have been seriously oppressed hold on to resentment for generations, particularly when the people in their own generation try to shame them for feeling such resentment. The fact is, you don't get to tell black people that slavery doesn't mean much because it was a long time ago. You don't get to tell black people how they should perceive racism. That you and others think you have a better handle on how black people should feel about how racism - current and historical - impacts them is a huge part of the problem in race relations today. People have been questioning black people's feelings on racism forever. To continue to do that and not simply say, "I get it" and stop there continues the problem.
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Just as they don't get to tell me that I as a white American am at fault for their plight, not I, nor my father, grand father, great grandfather, and so on all the way back to when my family immigrated here in 1683, not one of them owned a slave.

Perfect example:
I'm coming home the other day from hiking with my dog, and decide to swing by zaxbys and grab a salad. To get there I have to drive through the parking lot to get there. An African American couple is walking across the crosswalk at a fairly brisk pace and are looking ahead, about halfway across they look dead at me and then for the other half walk as slow as humanly possible for the rest of the way.

I'd say this "I'm not going to hurry for a white man" attitude happens to me several times a week, upon speaking to friends about it they say it happens to them as we'll. I have never been rude or given or impatient with them.

Its not just a perception thing because they actively slow their pace when they know you are waiting on them, like they derive some type of pleasure from this.

Now I live in a predominately African American middle class neighborhood. None of them ever act like this and have been nothing but friendly neighbors. It is predominately the poor African Americans (at least from my experience) that behave in this manner.
 
Paratrooper said:
Just as they don't get to tell me that I as a white American am at fault for their plight, not I, nor my father, grand father, great grandfather, and so on all the way back to when my family immigrated here in 1683, not one of them owned a slave.

Perfect example:
I'm coming home the other day from hiking with my dog, and decide to swing by zaxbys and grab a salad. To get there I have to drive through the parking lot to get there. An African American couple is walking across the crosswalk at a fairly brisk pace and are looking ahead, about halfway across they look dead at me and then for the other half walk as slow as humanly possible for the rest of the way.

I'd say this "I'm not going to hurry for a white man" attitude happens to me several times a week, upon speaking to friends about it they say it happens to them as we'll. I have never been rude or given or impatient with them.

Its not just a perception thing because they actively slow their pace when they know you are waiting on them, like they derive some type of pleasure from this.

Now I live in a predominately African American middle class neighborhood. None of them ever act like this and have been nothing but friendly neighbors. It is predominately the poor African Americans (at least from my experience) that behave in this manner.
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Assuming its true, why do you think that us?
 
Paratrooper said:
Just as they don't get to tell me that I as a white American am at fault for their plight, not I, nor my father, grand father, great grandfather, and so on all the way back to when my family immigrated here in 1683, not one of them owned a slave.

Perfect example:
I'm coming home the other day from hiking with my dog, and decide to swing by zaxbys and grab a salad. To get there I have to drive through the parking lot to get there. An African American couple is walking across the crosswalk at a fairly brisk pace and are looking ahead, about halfway across they look dead at me and then for the other half walk as slow as humanly possible for the rest of the way.

I'd say this "I'm not going to hurry for a white man" attitude happens to me several times a week, upon speaking to friends about it they say it happens to them as we'll. I have never been rude or given or impatient with them.

Its not just a perception thing because they actively slow their pace when they know you are waiting on them, like they derive some type of pleasure from this.

Now I live in a predominately African American middle class neighborhood. None of them ever act like this and have been nothing but friendly neighbors. It is predominately the poor African Americans (at least from my experience) that behave in this manner.
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I see that all the time but when I was in college, lower middle class blacks-often recruited as athletes were almost always great people to be around. they were happy to be at a top college and had no sense of entitlements. It was the upper middle class affirmative action blacks who thought everyone owed them something.
 
Boo Radley said:
Books are better, but these will do:

The Deferential Wife (described in Section 1) who lives in a world in which women are routinely denied educational opportunities and access tothe best jobs, and so become economically dependent on men, is more likely to desire to be servile to her husband and children. A female student who lives in a patriarchal culture that teaches women to look to men for protection, security, and strength rather than to cultivate these traits in themselves, is more likely to want to date males in power, such as her professor, because she sees them as exhibiting these traits.

Feminist Moral Psychology (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The ridicule and devaluation of women’s intuition as unreliable, unscientific, and illogical is used to invalidate and detour perception away from the active oppression of women by a dominant patriarchal society. This propaganda can become so effective that some women come to believe that men have a special skill or ability that allows them to succeed in the world that these women themselves do not possess, while, paradoxically, they cater to the needs and foibles of men at home through this same invalidated intu- ition (Miller, 1986).

http://www.dhss.delaware.gov/dsamh/files/perception1192.pdf


To aid in reducing the world into a more manageable environment, we deploy heuristics, which are the neat well-established categories that provide an abbreviated version of lengthier thinking processes. In clinical experiments, patients experiencing stress habitually increase their reliance on heuristics, stereotyping, and dualistic evaluative thinking (friend vs. foe, safe vs. dangerous dichotomies).

(Snip)

pervert one's sense of reality. Thus, the old adage, "Seeing is believing" is better rephrased as, "Believing is seeing," because perceptions are always subjected to our emotional filtering systems, which endow us with the basis for interpreting and often misinterpreting environmental and social events. Emotional filters are grounded in:
What we have been taught explicitly or implicitly.
Conditioned beliefs that become "hard-wired" in the brain by experiences and thoughts, forming semi-permanent neural circuits inside the brain.
Expectations based on schemas and our awareness of "if-then" relationships.
Evolutionary and genetic directions that assist us in identifying potential threats, which are often, unfortunately, defined as "those who look different from me and my group."
Social Conditioning
Contrary to other species in which instincts dictate habitat, food choices, mating preferences and practices, social stratifications, and clear identities for one's designated "enemies" — in human beings, thoughts, emotions, and behaviors are shaped by human-made meaning systems that must be taught, learned, and mastered. Classical conditioning is the form of learning that takes place when two stimuli are paired with one another. For example, when a lab rat sees a light go on, which is also followed by a mild electrical shock, the rat has "learned" via classical conditioning methods.

In establishing human prejudices, similar pairings of conditions occur, which may be real, imagined, insinuated, implied, or deliberately taught. Social conditioning has merged with neurobiologically based survival instincts to produce the majority of our more complex contemporary prejudices. The social and cognitive developmental literature has shown that children demonstrate clear ethnic and racial awareness at around three or four years of age. Differences are never the problem to children. It is the teaching of prejudicial attributions and misattributions to differences that foster eventual conflicts.

Neuropsychology and Prejudice
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I will look at these later, probably tomorrow. Thanks for providing them.

Another point I would like to make though is, to take your example of racism in police departments, that would mean that there really is not as big a problem with crime as we would think, that the police would be spending their time "setting up" black people for crimes because they are racist and instead of actually going after the real criminals, they would just rather frame a black man or blame a black man, whichever you prefer, which would mean that this would take collaboration with others too, and even other black officers and detectives. Is this what you're claiming?

That's certainly what it sounded like when you responded to my post about The First 48. It also sounds as if you are claiming that black police officers and detectives who would arrest and prosecute black people for crimes might be Uncle Toms?
 
ChrisL said:
Are there any improvements? Other people have come to this country, certainly not under the same conditions, I'll give you that, but they were not really much more than slaves, such as the Irish for example. They seemed to be able to integrate even though they were abused, murdered, beaten, etc. None of the people alive today now anyone who was a slave.
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One of the ways that Irish immigrants were able to assimilate so well into society was by joining up with white Americans in racism against black people. Moreover, Irish immigrants had the advantage of looking like the people who were considered "white" at the time that they were being discriminated against. There are a whole host of other issues that distinguish the assimilation of the Irish from black Americans into mainstream white society. There's actually a good book called "How the Irish Became White" that deal with a lot of this.

Regardless, I understand that you're not just talking about the Irish specifically, but about other groups that have dealt with oppression and managed to assimilate better into mainstream society than black Americans. However, as I said to TurtleDude, such comparisons take away the agency of black Americans and minimize the differences between them and these other groups. The fact is that different groups deal with different circumstances and handle things differently.

You are right. Many groups in this country have dealt with oppression, but I don't think it's a coincidence that two of the most currently disadvantaged of those groups are black Americans and Native Americans - the two groups who dealt with the longest lasting, most systemic, most alientating oppression in this country.

Perhaps, it's all of this "you're a victim of whitey" talk that keeps them down. You bring someone down easily by first killing their self-esteem. Would you ever even CONSIDER that possibility though?
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Internalized racism - i.e. "I'm black and I'm inferior" type attitudes - are a much bigger problem among black Americans than "blame it on whitey" attitudes.

There are certainly people who won't let the issue rest. I don't see how that helps anyone. There is no more slavery, segregation is illegal, we have hate crime laws and affirmative action, we have an elected black president along with many other black politicians. The stories that you keep trying to sell, I'm NOT buying. It's something other than "racism" that has a negative effect on the black community.
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Again, it's really none of your concern in black people "won't let the issue rest." That you think it's your place to tell black people what is and is not appropriate them to feel about racism - historic and current - is a problem. If you want to solve a problem with racial issues in this country, then stop doing what white people have always done to black people - telling them how to feel.
 
ChrisL said:
I will look at these later, probably tomorrow. Thanks for providing them.

Another point I would like to make though is, to take your example of racism in police departments, that would mean that there really is not as big a problem with crime as we would think, that the police would be spending their time "setting up" black people for crimes because they are racist and instead of actually going after the real criminals, they would just rather frame a black man or blame a black man, whichever you prefer, which would mean that this would take collaboration with others too, and even other black officers and detectives. Is this what you're claiming?

That's certainly what it sounded like when you responded to my post about The First 48. It also sounds as if you are claiming that black police officers and detectives who would arrest and prosecute black people for crimes might be Uncle Toms?
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I never claimed setting up. More creating a self fulfilling prophesy.

I also never said Uncle Tom. Never. I said it was part if social conditioning.
 
Paratrooper said:
Just as they don't get to tell me that I as a white American am at fault for their plight, not I, nor my father, grand father, great grandfather, and so on all the way back to when my family immigrated here in 1683, not one of them owned a slave.

Perfect example:
I'm coming home the other day from hiking with my dog, and decide to swing by zaxbys and grab a salad. To get there I have to drive through the parking lot to get there. An African American couple is walking across the crosswalk at a fairly brisk pace and are looking ahead, about halfway across they look dead at me and then for the other half walk as slow as humanly possible for the rest of the way.

I'd say this "I'm not going to hurry for a white man" attitude happens to me several times a week, upon speaking to friends about it they say it happens to them as we'll. I have never been rude or given or impatient with them.

Its not just a perception thing because they actively slow their pace when they know you are waiting on them, like they derive some type of pleasure from this.

Now I live in a predominately African American middle class neighborhood. None of them ever act like this and have been nothing but friendly neighbors. It is predominately the poor African Americans (at least from my experience) that behave in this manner.
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This is just a deflection. "They do it too" is a meaningless response.
 
The biggest issue is that the pathologies in black culture hurt blacks the most. when 40% of all black males have felony records in some areas its a problem. A law professor at OSU wrote a book about how the drug laws and the criminal system is the new jim crow. I don't agree with all her premises but she has a point. Blacks can blame whites for 80% illegitimacy rates, drop out rates, criminal records, and all the other things that hold blacks back but in the long run it affects them not us.
 
TurtleDude said:
who appointed you spokewoman for the black race. I don't care how they feel. I am tired of them or their white handwringing patrons excusing social pathologies that are deleterious to society by whining about slavery or racism

guess what-blacks are the people who sold blacks to white folks.
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This is what I'm talking about. I present an argument and you just deflect. The fact is that you again have just told black people how they should feel about racism and you don't want to own up to it. You have zero capacity to examine your own role in the problem. It's hilarious.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
This is just a deflection. "They do it too" is a meaningless response.
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that's just a failure to deal with his sound point because its uncomfortable to the politically correct who feel a need to excuse social pathologies in the black community
 
PirateMk1 said:
What I find funny is all these people talking about white institutional influence or power, when the US government employs 17.5% blacks verses the 13.1% they represent in the population. Hispanics represent 16.9% of the population but only get 7.1% of federal jobs. Whites represent 77.9% of the population and only get 67% of federal jobs. Boy that's a lot of influence by white people.:roll: The numbers are similar for state and local governments. If there was going to be influence you would think it would be for government jobs. Guess the influence goes only so far.
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Historically, it has been government employment opportunities that offered the least level of racial discrimination to blacks compared to what blacks faced in the private sector. Likely one reason a greater proportion of blacks seek career opportunities with the government. Gen. Colin Powell testified before Congress this was what he sought a career in the military. When I was growing up, nearly every member of my family was government employed.
 
TurtleDude said:
that's just a failure to deal with his sound point because its uncomfortable to the politically correct who feel a need to excuse social pathologies in the black community
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Oh stop, LOL. I've presented arguments and, as I suspected, they have been ignored by you and others who share your uninformed opinions. None of you have any capacity to examine your own role in the problem. All of you just want black people to "get over it". LOL
 
ThePlayDrive said:
One of the ways that Irish immigrants were able to assimilate so well into society was by joining up with white Americans in racism against black people. Moreover, Irish immigrants had the advantage of looking like the people who were considered "white" at the time that they were being discriminated against. There are a whole host of other issues that distinguish the assimilation of the Irish from black Americans into mainstream white society. There's actually a good book called "How the Irish Became White" that deal with a lot of this.

Regardless, I understand that you're not just talking about the Irish specifically, but about other groups that have dealt with oppression and managed to assimilate better into mainstream society than black Americans. However, as I said to TurtleDude, such comparisons take away the agency of black Americans and minimize the differences between them and these other groups. The fact is that different groups deal with different circumstances and handle things differently.

You are right. Many groups in this country have dealt with oppression, but I don't think it's a coincidence that two of the most currently disadvantaged of those groups are black Americans and Native Americans - the two groups who dealt with the longest lasting, most systemic, most alientating oppression in this country.


Internalized racism - i.e. "I'm black and I'm inferior" type attitudes - are a much bigger problem among black Americans than "blame it on whitey" attitudes.


Again, it's really none of your concern in black people "won't let the issue rest." That you think it's your place to tell black people what is and is not appropriate them to feel about racism - historic and current - is a problem. If you want to solve a problem with racial issues in this country, then stop doing what white people have always done to black people - telling them how to feel.
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First of all, the reason why black people have such a difficult time integrating into society in a productive manner is because of people who constantly remind that they were slaves and were considered "inferior" and people who constantly cry racism at every slight. People like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton are the REAL brainwashers here. They put into these people's minds that they are victims and discriminated against.

Also, this most certainly is my concern. It has an effect on society. You have some nerve to say to me "stop telling them how to feel" and then in the very next breath tell me to not be concerned. Good God! Take a look in the mirror will you?

In regards to them feeling inferior, THAT is the victim mentality that I'm referring to. Of course there are reasons other than racism as to why they feel like "victims" all the time. MOST people in America are NOT racist, regardless of what you want to think about them.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Oh stop, LOL. I've presented arguments and, as I suspected, they have been ignored by you and others who share your uninformed opinions. None of you have any capacity to examine your own role in the problem. All of you just want black people to "get over it". LOL
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Obviously you have a very simplistic view of the issues.
 
Boo Radley said:
While I'm sure you wouldn't exaggerate, two things: 1) not by your landlord 2) not in the numbers minorities have been. Not even in the same universe.
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Because Im sure when it happens to someone they say, "Well, It hasn't happened to be in the number of all the minorities in history combined so its all good."

No. It still feels the same damned way regardless.
 
ChrisL said:
First of all, the reason why black people have such a difficult time integrating into society in a productive manner is because of people who constantly remind that they were slaves and were considered "inferior" and people who constantly cry racism at every slight. People like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton are the REAL brainwashers here. They put into these people's minds that they are victims and discriminated against.
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Eh, the phrase "crying racism" is only used to minimize and demean concerns of racism that are valid. I don't respond to arguments that don't take concerns of racism seriously. Try another approach.

Also, this most certainly is my concern. It has an effect on society. You have some nerve to say to me "stop telling them how to feel" and then in the very next breath tell me to not be concerned. Good God! Take a look in the mirror will you?
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No, it's none of your concern how black people feel about racism. I mean, you can continue to think they need to "get over it", but that just perpetuates the same racial power dynamics that cause many of them to resent white people, but whatevs.

In regards to them feeling inferior, THAT is the victim mentality that I'm referring to.
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No, it's not. That's a separate issue. We are talking about two entirely different issues. Don't mix up my arguments with yours.
 
Boo Radley said:
I never claimed setting up. More creating a self fulfilling prophesy.

I also never said Uncle Tom. Never. I said it was part if social conditioning.
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Of course you did. You said we don't get to see "everything" that goes on. You insinuated that these particular detectives/police were dishonest in some way. Don't you think that your claim is pretty much ridiculous?
 
Boo Radley said:
No. It's been shown more than once that such was factually the case. And I can introduce you to people who will even say it out loud.
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So we have mind readers now?
 
ChrisL said:
Obviously you have a very simplistic view of the issues.
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Well, my view is based on extensive research in addition to experience. What is yours based on? Anecdotes? I take my informed view any day of the week.
 
Boo Radley said:
You should visit Holly Springs Mississippi. You'll find a white restaurant and a black one. Your find a black public school and a white private school. You'll find white who won't hire blacks.
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Is that policy, or is it because of self-segregated areas of town?

Is there a sign on the front that says, "Whites Only" and "Colored Only" on the school or does it just so happen that the schools are zoned for areas where people have segregated their neighborhoods.
 
ChrisL said:
That's because there are MORE white people than other races. Of course there would be MORE racists among whites, simply because there are so many more of them. It's not like white people get together and plan to screw over on black people. Give me a break.
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Well, that is their history. Red lining and the southern strategy are still in play.
 
Boo Radley said:
She where to find it. I answered. We also have a manger up here who refused to hire an experienced African American, but hired an unqualified high school student. At our Walmart, a manger said he quit before he hired a woman. Speaking of Walmart, didn't they have to settle a suit fir just that. We can link many examples if you care to dispute this.
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Sounds like one of those "over-qualified" situations.

Did you stop to think maybe the person didn't way to pay for the other guy's experience? He wanted to get an employee he could hire cheap?

No? Because the first excuse is RACIST!! GOD DAMNED RACISTS EVERYWHERE!
 
Caine said:
Is that policy, or is it because of self-segregated areas of town?

Is there a sign on the front that says, "Whites Only" and "Colored Only" on the school or does it just so happen that the schools are zoned for areas where people have segregated their neighborhoods.
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Red lining
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Eh, the phrase "crying racism" is only used to minimize and demean concerns of racism that are valid. I don't respond to arguments that don't take concerns of racism seriously. Try another approach.
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Then don't. What in the heck makes you think I care? There are PLENTY of instances of crying racism, and some outright ridiculous ones at that.

No, it's none of your concern how black people feel about racism. I mean, you can continue to think they need to "get over it", but that just perpetuates the same racial power dynamics that cause many of them to resent white people, but whatevs.
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It is my concern, and I will keep posting about it and saying how I feel about the issue. Yes, they do need to get over it. It is not helping themselves nor anyone else. It is extremely harmful. That is what the real issue is.

No, it's not. That's a separate issue. We are talking about two entirely different issues. Don't mix up my arguments with yours.
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Lol! You must be kidding right? Here is what you said.

Internalized racism - i.e. "I'm black and I'm inferior" type attitudes - are a much bigger problem among black Americans than "blame it on whitey" attitudes.
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Boo Radley said:
Not irrelevant. Your example is the minority experience today. Today, right now, whites discriminate far more often, and with the power to actually effect lives.
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So a violet mob of angry blacks dragging people out of their cars and beating them and lighting them on fire doesn't effect lives?
 
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