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Guns and children

At which age should a child be allowed to own a gun?

  • I don't think there should be age limits. It's the responsibility of the parents.

    Votes: 7 18.4%
  • 0-4 years

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5-8 years

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • 9-12 years

    Votes: 7 18.4%
  • 13-14 years

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • 15-16 years

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 17-18 years

    Votes: 10 26.3%
  • 21 years

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • Private gun ownership should not be allowed at all.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • other (please explain)

    Votes: 8 21.1%

  • Total voters
    38
18 years old (the age one could smoke cigarettes), seems like a proper age imo. But I have no problem with a younger person shooting a gun with adult supervision. I've shot guns myself since I was 11.
 
Just as Europeans are astonished by gun ownership in America, those on the American Left Wrong are embarrassed by the so called "gun culture" in America because of how Europeans view us. They want to be like Europe, and so gun control goes hand-in-hand with this objective.

Those on the far wrong, who are embarrassed by this and other characteristics which set the American culture so far above the European culture against which we rebelled, really ought to just consider moving to Europe. Presumably, they'd be happier in a culture that is more to their liking, and we'd be much better off without them trying to drag us back down into the primordial soup from which our ancestors shed so much blood to escape.
 
One thing that totally amazes me about America (well, certain regions in America at least) is that guns are considered such a normal everyday tool that even children are provided with guns. The other day, I even heard that there exist certain rifle models that are designed for kids and advertized as such.

Being European, this is culturally totally alien to me. And it strikes me as completely insane, no matter how I turn it. I bet the reaction of most of my fellow countrymen is similar. When there were cases in the news about 4 or 5 year old American kids shooting their younger siblings with guns their parents had given them, that was just one big "I told you so"-moment, as horrible as these cases are. I really think the parents should go to jail for this irresponsibility.

Seriously: How can anybody give a child a gun? How stupid can one be? Guns are not for kids, period.

Or do you seriously think kids should have access to deadly weapons that can kill in an instant and are exclusively designed for that purpose, but are not responsible enough to drive before they turn 16, or to drink alcohol before they turn 18/21?! (Or to have consensual safe sex, for that matter.) That simply does not compute.

So what do you think? Which age is appropriate for kids to have access to guns?

I'm sure that you would agree that kids need to learn the difference between tools and toys. I'd also presume that you would find it reasonable for that education to begin at a young age. Most people, for example, would have no problem handing their infant child a plastic toy hammer but not a 20oz, demolition claw hammer. The key to this, of course, is that what the child has access to and under what restrictions they have that access is dependent on the child's level of development. When it comes to guns the rules don't change.

If I give my 3 year old a toy hammer and he pounds on the furniture even after I tell him not to I'm certainly not going to give him a real hammer. However, if my child shows an interest in carpentry or some other work I'm doing and acts responsibly then I might well give him a small hammer and nails so that he can kind of join in the work. I will observe what he is doing and instruct him on how to use the tool, taking it away if he acts irresponsibly. In a few years of this type of training I may well have him using different tools as long as he continues to show interest and responsibility. By the time he is 6 or 7 he may be using power drills or hand saws in a limited capacity.

The natural progression of this type of education may well lead to handling firearms if they are common in the household. For example, if it is common for me to shoot coyotes or hogs on my ranch as pest control then it would be reasonable that my children would be aware of the practice and start participating in that chore at a fairly young age. The same would apply to a family that regularly hunts and fishes. I'll grant you that if I live in an apartment in lower Manhattan I probably won't be doing this kind of thing but if I live in rural New York I probably will.
 
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The poll questions leave a little to be desired and here is why. Gun ownership isn't simple in this particular day and age, it's not "the purchaser" and the "owner" necessarily being the same thing in legal terms. I think to actually be able to purchase a gun without an adult present a person should be 18 years old, or age of majority. But for a child under that age to buy a gun under adult supervision it should be up to said parent/guardian to determine that the child is ready to own one, but I would say somewhere around the age of 11-14 for something like that.

To actually own a weapon, meaning legal transfer from adult to another person, I think there should be no age limit, again, when said purchaser of the weapon decides the youth is responsible enough to own it that should be the appropriate age. Sure, there are some adults who probably would misjudge that, but that's the case with just about anything in life.
 
It's appropriate whenever the kid has proven that they are responsible enough to handle owning one. I'll probably start teaching my kids to handle a gun at 5 or 6, though only under strict supervision, and only if they are mature enough to take it seriously at that age.
Shot my first weapon at 6, a little .25 revolver. Shot my first rifle shortly thereafter, around 10, little .22lr. But before I ever had a weapon in my hand my dad drilled and re drilled safety into my head until I showed safe handling was natural to me.
 
I'd argue that cars/motorbikes and low-alcohol drinks are much less dangerous than guns and rifles, and thus the latter should not be given to kids before the former.
More people are killed in car accidents than firearms any given year in the U.S. and many of those are teens. Motorcyles are less prevalent here so I think they have a lower total fatality number than cars, but they have a higher mortality probability during an accident. Low alcohol drinks in the U.S. were actually considered for the longest time to be more dangerous due to the assumption that the low alcohol content would not have a negative effect on driving skills, wine coolers for example were abused heavily in the 80s and 90s because drivers assumed they could have more and not be effected.

It's always about a person taking responsibility for whatever they take control of, whether that be a vehicle, firearm, electrical device, etc. I personally would rather expose kids to these items in a way that they can learn the operations and safety, characteristics of the items, and more than anything, respect for the device.
 
First of all, one can't legally own a gun in this country until the age of 21.

I was introduced to firearms around the age of 5 or 6 but, only while observing adults on hunting trips. Around age nine I was allowed [on my own] to access any gun in the cabinet and was trained in care and safety of said guns. (we lived in a small town with lots of open country around)

I hate to bring this up but, Germany in particular, probably has a negative attitude about guns due to the WWs. (misuse of power, disarmament, political chaos, etc)

I would bet before those wars, it was very common for young European boys to hunt and target practice with their families. There's also a long line of fine gun makers from that region of the world.

First statement is not true, I bought my first 12ga. pump for my 18th birthday.
 
First statement is not true, I bought my first 12ga. pump for my 18th birthday.

I think most states allow long guns at 18. 21 for a handgun.
That said, my parents got me my first bolt action .22 at 12 and I still have it.
But it was not given to me until I graduated a NRA safety course, even though my father was a police officer and WWII combat vet and was very familier with guns.
Lessons in that class still are put to use every time I pick up a weapon.
 
One thing that totally amazes me about America (well, certain regions in America at least) is that guns are considered such a normal everyday tool that even children are provided with guns. The other day, I even heard that there exist certain rifle models that are designed for kids and advertized as such.

Being European, this is culturally totally alien to me. And it strikes me as completely insane, no matter how I turn it. I bet the reaction of most of my fellow countrymen is similar. When there were cases in the news about 4 or 5 year old American kids shooting their younger siblings with guns their parents had given them, that was just one big "I told you so"-moment, as horrible as these cases are. I really think the parents should go to jail for this irresponsibility.

Seriously: How can anybody give a child a gun? How stupid can one be? Guns are not for kids, period.

Or do you seriously think kids should have access to deadly weapons that can kill in an instant and are exclusively designed for that purpose, but are not responsible enough to drive before they turn 16, or to drink alcohol before they turn 18/21?! (Or to have consensual safe sex, for that matter.) That simply does not compute.

So what do you think? Which age is appropriate for kids to have access to guns?

OWNING a gun - 15-16 at the earliest.

SHOOTING a gun - as in, being taught how to properly use one (a necessity if there are guns around the home - purely for safety reasons) . . . 5 or so seems ok because they can
begin to understand the do's and don'ts. So maybe a little earlier for some, later for others.

Most firearm incidents happen because parents don't set up rules - and enforce them.
 
As a European, Romania has probably the toughest gun laws in the world for a supposedly "free country". So totalitarian regimes are out.

You cannot own a firearm if you are not a member of the law enforcement agencies or a member of Parliament.
In order to get a non-lethal gun you need to jump through hoops and loops more so than a dolphin at waterworld. And once you do, you have gracefully subjected yourself to mandatory and random "cavity searches" from the police. Because if you own a non-lethal firearm, the police can drop by at any time, unannounced, and inspect your non-lethal gun. See if you keep in the proper storage according to the law ( gun and ammo separate under 2 separate keys in 2 separate safes).


So coming from this background I believe that firearms should be legal. Lets be real, in the winter, a non-lethal gun will do jack against a guy who wants to hurt you and is wearing a heavy, thick coat unless you shoot him in the face. And if you shoot him in the face, you are liable to face criminal charges even if you were defending yourself.

So. Firearms should be legal. But not "america" legal. The requirements for owning a legal firearm should be:

- take a psychological test and pass it. The psychological test should be revisited every X years and/or after every major trauma (member of family died, car accident, etc). If you pass the psychological test and get a gun, and the next day you go out and shoot someone, both you and the psychologist who passed you are liable to face criminal charges.
-Mandatory X number of training courses on how to use the gun. Clean, maintain and shoot.
-You can only purchase a gun after you obtained a permission from the police, which requires you pass the psychological test (and maybe a theoretical knowledge test, like you do at driving school) and in order to get a permit legitimizing your purchase, you need to complete the training courses.

So like when you take driving permit. You need to pass a theortical test and a driving test and all this after you completed a long training program. A car is a deadly weapon. A gun is a deadly weapon. They should both be held to the same standard, maybe a gun at a higher one.

No drop-in inspections however. that's an invasion of your privacy. And you should be allowed to carry a gun in a concealed fashion at night if you have the permit on you. So not a concealed carry permit, the gun permit. But not during the day. At any other time, the gun must be either in your car/house/private property but during the day, not on your person.
 
Seriously: How can anybody give a child a gun? How stupid can one be? Guns are not for kids, period.
Sure they are. I learned how to shoot when I was about ten. Received my first rifle when I was 13.

So what do you think? Which age is appropriate for kids to have access to guns?

It's up to the parents, and the maturity of the child.
 
One thing that totally amazes me about America (well, certain regions in America at least) is that guns are considered such a normal everyday tool that even children are provided with guns. The other day, I even heard that there exist certain rifle models that are designed for kids and advertized as such.
Love the post. Yes indeed, freedom is a strange thing in that some things seems so alien and crazy from one perspective, and so normal from another. I don't have a great answer for that per se. I wonder if southern households where guns are common are much worse off statistically than not (when being southern in general is eliminated as a variable !!! ). Me personally, I have no interest in my child knowing how to operate firearms until they are older at the least high school age, but she's in 1st grade so I may change.
 
Unless, of course, they are from Vermont: Arguably, the "leftiest" state in USA - and the most "pro-gun" at the same time. That's another great thing about America: we just too big and diverse to fit any stereotypes.

Uh huh, Obama speaks for you, so dumby up with that Vermont stuff. He sets the tone in Washington, and he wants us to be like Europe, cause he thinks that's how to achieve social justice.
 
One thing that totally amazes me about America (well, certain regions in America at least) is that guns are considered such a normal everyday tool that even children are provided with guns. The other day, I even heard that there exist certain rifle models that are designed for kids and advertized as such.

Being European, this is culturally totally alien to me. And it strikes me as completely insane, no matter how I turn it. I bet the reaction of most of my fellow countrymen is similar. When there were cases in the news about 4 or 5 year old American kids shooting their younger siblings with guns their parents had given them, that was just one big "I told you so"-moment, as horrible as these cases are. I really think the parents should go to jail for this irresponsibility.

Seriously: How can anybody give a child a gun? How stupid can one be? Guns are not for kids, period.

Or do you seriously think kids should have access to deadly weapons that can kill in an instant and are exclusively designed for that purpose, but are not responsible enough to drive before they turn 16, or to drink alcohol before they turn 18/21?! (Or to have consensual safe sex, for that matter.) That simply does not compute.

So what do you think? Which age is appropriate for kids to have access to guns?

maybe that is why our 17-19 year old boys kicked the living crap out of the German army?

Here is my kid at age 14 with a glock 17. That is a high level instructor behind him. He is at one of the very best tactical training facilities in the USA-its prominent internationally. He has had over 72 hours of high level formal training, and hundreds of hours of training with me-another high level instructor.
 

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Uh huh, Obama speaks for you, so dumby up with that Vermont stuff. He sets the tone in Washington, and he wants us to be like Europe, cause he thinks that's how to achieve social justice.

I am sure who Obama speaks for anymore, but he certainly was never speaking for me.

Actual gun control laws widely differ state by state. Look at what they are in the pinko Vermont: the least restrictive in the whole Union. It is a fact.
 
Depends on how oppressive the government gets. If Barack Obama presses for another 4 years as president, I'd say as soon as the child is able to aim a gun and shoot it.
 
One thing that totally amazes me about America (well, certain regions in America at least) is that guns are considered such a normal everyday tool that even children are provided with guns. The other day, I even heard that there exist certain rifle models that are designed for kids and advertized as such.

Being European, this is culturally totally alien to me. And it strikes me as completely insane, no matter how I turn it. I bet the reaction of most of my fellow countrymen is similar. When there were cases in the news about 4 or 5 year old American kids shooting their younger siblings with guns their parents had given them, that was just one big "I told you so"-moment, as horrible as these cases are. I really think the parents should go to jail for this irresponsibility.

Seriously: How can anybody give a child a gun? How stupid can one be? Guns are not for kids, period.

Or do you seriously think kids should have access to deadly weapons that can kill in an instant and are exclusively designed for that purpose, but are not responsible enough to drive before they turn 16, or to drink alcohol before they turn 18/21?! (Or to have consensual safe sex, for that matter.) That simply does not compute.

So what do you think? Which age is appropriate for kids to have access to guns?



Hi German Guy. I'm one of those idiots that gives kids guns. :mrgreen:


To be precise, though, the question is far more complex than you've framed it.

It is actually several questions...

1. When is a child old enough to handle firearms in the presence of/under the tutelage of a responsible adult? (not on the own you see)
2. When is a child old enough to be allowed access to firearms unsupervised on private property? (ie in the home, on the farm)
3. When is a person old enough to buy or possess firearms unrestricted as an adult?
4. When is a person old enough to carry a firearm in public places, as in concealed carry?

I've never simply handed a child a gun and said "here, go play", or had them open a present on Christmas that was a .44 magnum and said "here's the bullets, keep it in your sock drawer..."


No. That WOULD be irresponsible and insane.

However, I taught my son (indeed, quite a number of children over the years), firearms safety and marksmanship beginning from age 4, under close and careful supervision.


It is not unusual locally for children to learn to use firearms between the age of 6 and 10 under adult supervision. Many begin hunting between 6 and 12, under adult supervision.


I've known many young fellows in that age range who were already pretty good marksmen, and sufficiently meticulous in their gunhandling that I did not feel they were in any way unsafe... under proper adult supervision.



My son could recite the Three Rules of Safe Gunhandling in his sleep long before he ever needed to shave. :)


Numbers 1 and 2 are the parent's responsibility to decide. There HAVE been children (of other people) I have been asked to teach basic safety and marksmanship to, and after talking with the child I declined and told the parent "he is not ready; let's talk again in a year or two". I will NOT teach them unless I see three things: 1. They will take the matter seriously and can be made to understand that guns are dangerous.... 2. They will OBEY my commands when we are shooting at targets... and 3. That they have been taught the fundamentals of moral and ethical behavior by their parents and understand that it is wrong to harm others absent necessity.



Some children may be suitable to be taught (under careful supervision) at 4 or 5, some at 6 or 8.... some not until they are older, and some IMHO will be waiting for a cold day in Hades before I teach them squat. :)


Depends. Driving a car is also dangerous. So is operating a skid-loader (Bobcat) which I taught my son to run at age 9, or cutting down trees with a chainsaw which he was allowed to do at 12.


OTOH hand I've met 12yo's I would not trust with a pointy screwdriver. Depends.


As a society, we allow purchase and unsupervised access to long arms at 18, and pistols at 21, by matter of law. As to being allowed access on private property (at home for instance).... that's a family matter and one to be determined with great care.


I realize, GG, that this is a very alien thing to you.... I wonder if you can open up your mind well enough to see that we've been doing it in parts of America for literally centuries and in 99.99% of cases no tragedy or disaster occurs?

The tragedies and disasters are rarities. Indeed, usually when a child accidentally shoots another child it is in a home where guns were kept but the child was NOT taught gun safety or allowed to shoot... it is well established that ignorance is a killer.
 
I'd argue that cars/motorbikes and low-alcohol drinks are much less dangerous than guns and rifles, and thus the latter should not be given to kids before the former.


Even in America, AWASH in guns compared to any other nation, automobile accident deaths far outnumber ALL firearm deaths. :)
 
Sorry, 21 for a handgun and 18 for a rifle or shotgun.

Still not correct. There are no federal age lmits for ownership or possession. Some states have laws, but they differ widely.
 
It is actually several questions...

1. When is a child old enough to handle firearms in the presence of/under the tutelage of a responsible adult? (not on the own you see)
2. When is a child old enough to be allowed access to firearms unsupervised on private property? (ie in the home, on the farm)
3. When is a person old enough to buy or possess firearms unrestricted as an adult?
4. When is a person old enough to carry a firearm in public places, as in concealed carry?

1. I started shooting, with adult supervision, at age 4.
2. I'd say around 10 or so.
3. Age of adulthood. I'd say fifteen, most people don't think "kids" are adults until eighteen.
4. Age of adulthood again.
 
1. I started shooting, with adult supervision, at age 4.
2. I'd say around 10 or so.
3. Age of adulthood. I'd say fifteen, most people don't think "kids" are adults until eighteen.
4. Age of adulthood again.


Agreed in part. I was allowed semi-unsupervised access to firearms from about age 12 and it wasn't a problem.

It is possible to raise and train up a child in order to imbue them with something like adult-level responsibility by 15.... I would know, I did this on purpose and I've been treating my son mostly as an adult since he was that age... but it is not commonplace in our society anymore, so much so that some people do not think it can be done.

Yet we commonly start letting them drive at 15 or 16, and many parents then let them zoom all over town unsupervised (and often doing a lot of stupid and risky ****)... our society is kinda screwy in some ways... :shrug:


But I do worry about the impulse control thing. My son is 17, I have no worries about letting him have access to my gun safe here at home... but letting a 15yo carry in public seems excessively optimistic to me, unless you're trying to get Darwinian about it... :)
 
IMO:
Toy cap guns and pellet guns at age 4
Air rifles/pistols at age 8
22 rifles/pistols at age 12
410 Shotshell shotguns at 16 (duck hunting and the like)
Any rifles/shotgun at age 18
Any pistol at age 21
 
Around here it is largely for sporting purposes like hunting, but of course there is the idea of defense of family. It had long been a pastime for fathers and sons, nephews and cousins to go after game. It is so common that in many of the rural schools, opening day of hunting season is treated like a holiday, with little to no one in school.

I suppose hunting also has different connotations with in Germany and many other European countries, but hunting is something for the Everyman and his children to enjoy. The gun is a tool for that end, and they are taught to respect the power of that weapon from a young age.
 
maybe that is why our 17-19 year old boys kicked the living crap out of the German army?

Here is my kid at age 14 with a glock 17. That is a high level instructor behind him. He is at one of the very best tactical training facilities in the USA-its prominent internationally. He has had over 72 hours of high level formal training, and hundreds of hours of training with me-another high level instructor.

I have a number of guns and I am, admittedly, not the most accurate with a handgun (I can sure dust the clay targets in trap though). I have no doubt your boy would embarrass me on the range which IMO goes to show that age is not nearly as important as training and experience.
 
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