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Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 15.9%

  • No

    Votes: 136 65.7%

  • Maybe/Don't Know

    Votes: 38 18.4%
  • Total voters
    207
ChrisL said:
What does that have to do with "collecting" sperm from a bull? Now you're talking about milking cows?
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Hi ChrisL :2wave:

Milking and collecting sperm from bulls.

I live on the left coast that has a large population of gays and lesbians.
Over the decades I've had many gay friends and gay business associates. All know how I felt about homosexuality and that I was a heterosexual and straight as a barrel on a M-14 rifle. They respected me, my believes and rights and never would perform sodomy acts or even kiss someone in my presence. They would go out partying with me and my other straight friends. They were NFL fans and would even go to the nudie bars with us. In my opinion, most gays are no different than straight heterosexuals except for some reason they think a man can give better head than a woman or they have a thing for bung holes.

One question never asked and answered, are gays offended as much as heterosexuals when they see heterosexual oral sex being performed in front of them as straight males and females or when they see sex sodomy being performed in their presence ?
Still an unanswered question never answered about homosexuality.

Back to the collecting of bull sperm. I only know a few lesbians. But what I can't figure out is why so many hot looking lesbians that I never knew would approach me offering thousands of dollars for my sperm and rejected receiving it in the normal way ???
 
APACHERAT said:
Hi ChrisL :2wave:

Milking and collecting sperm from bulls.

I live on the left coast that has a large population of gays and lesbians.
Over the decades I've had many gay friends and gay business associates. All know how I felt about homosexuality and that I was a heterosexual and straight as a barrel on a M-14 rifle. They respected me, my believes and rights and never would perform sodomy acts or even kiss someone in my presence. They would go out partying with me and my other straight friends. They were NFL fans and would even go to the nudie bars with us. In my opinion, most gays are no different than straight heterosexuals except for some reason they think a man can give better head than a woman or they have a thing for bung holes.

One question never asked and answered, are gays offended as much as heterosexuals when they see heterosexual oral sex being performed in front of them as straight males and females or when they see sex sodomy being performed in their presence ?
Still an unanswered question never answered about homosexuality.

Back to the collecting of bull sperm. I only know a few lesbians. But what I can't figure out is why so many hot looking lesbians that I never knew would approach me offering thousands of dollars for my sperm and rejected receiving it in the normal way ???
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:lamo That was pretty funny. I don't have any idea as to the answer to your questions.
 
APACHERAT said:
Hi ChrisL :2wave:

Milking and collecting sperm from bulls.

I live on the left coast that has a large population of gays and lesbians.
Over the decades I've had many gay friends and gay business associates. All know how I felt about homosexuality and that I was a heterosexual and straight as a barrel on a M-14 rifle. They respected me, my believes and rights and never would perform sodomy acts or even kiss someone in my presence. They would go out partying with me and my other straight friends. They were NFL fans and would even go to the nudie bars with us. In my opinion, most gays are no different than straight heterosexuals except for some reason they think a man can give better head than a woman or they have a thing for bung holes.

One question never asked and answered, are gays offended as much as heterosexuals when they see heterosexual oral sex being performed in front of them as straight males and females or when they see sex sodomy being performed in their presence ?
Still an unanswered question never answered about homosexuality.

Back to the collecting of bull sperm. I only know a few lesbians. But what I can't figure out is why so many hot looking lesbians that I never knew would approach me offering thousands of dollars for my sperm and rejected receiving it in the normal way ???
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They want your genetics, not your genitals.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
You were the one that responded to me: "Did you try out sex with each?"

As the quote says you asked if I had tried sex with males and females first before I made my decision. You seem to be the one trying wiggle your way out of being shown to be wrong by denying what you actually said. ANd so that I wouldnt get it wrong you said this: "No, dogs can't consent. But when I shop for cars, I try them out. Kick the tires. I didn't marry the first female I won't out with. I checked more than a few out. You can't really choose if you don't."

Right there you claimed that no one could choose without trying it out first. Then you started being snarky: "Try to grasp the concept."

I asked you for clarity and you gave me this: "You must be able to realistically consider sex with both sexes as a possibility. Kissing someone of the same sex must be seen as enjoyable, just as enjoyable as with the opposite sex. Just as we pet and neck with one sex growing up, to be a choice, we must do the same with the other. Otherwise, the choice is not a choice. Something else is dictating what we do."

You want a mechanism but refused to offer one yourself.

Then you went on to say this: "As I have said, choice lies in the ability to do both. Only those who can realistically consider both have choice." Where you back pedaled slightly. Now you dont require actually trying something in order to make a choice but just consider the concept.

Then you tell me that we are not talking about individuals. But dude that was indeed what I was talking about and said so several times. I can help it if you dont want to talk about the same thing that i was talking about before you responded to me. that would make you the one that leaped in without knowing what we were talking about.


So again I give you this link: The American Psychological Association: Sexual orientation and homosexuality


I tend to listen to people in the field of study instead of some guy on the internet (that would be you). The link above takes you to a short question and answer page about Sexual orientation and homosexuality. You claimed to have read the link and that there wasnt anything on it that you havenet heard before. But you didnt dispute any of it either. (you just made another snarky irrelevant remark again meh) SO I had to assume that the information that I provided was not disagreeable to you. But obviously you didnt even bother to read or understand the content of that link. In it they clearly leave room for a small percentage of people being able to make a choice about their sexuality. That small percentage (or what you referred to as individuals) is the exact same claim that I made that you responded to and called nonsense and started out exchange.

Now you are trying to act as if I have no clue, but it is you that has no clue and was shown to be wrong.

Read this: Sexual Orientation | Psychology Today

What is Sexual Orientation?
Sexual Orientation is a term used to describe our patterns of emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction—and our sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions. Recent research suggests that a person's sexual orientation is not a black or white matter; sexual orientation exists along a continuum, with exclusive attraction to the opposite sex on one pole and exclusive attraction to the same sex on the other.

Heterosexuality (attraction to members of the opposite sex), homosexuality (attraction to members of the same sex), and bisexuality (attraction to members of either sex) are the three most commonly discussed categories of sexual orientation.

Few issues are as hotly contested as what determines a person's sexual orientation. While most scientists agree that nature and nurture both play complex roles, the determinants of sexual orientation are still poorly understood. Current reseach into its underpinnings frequently focuses on the role of genes, environment, brain structure, and hormones.

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Nothing there disputes me. Nor is it anything I haven't read. It's clear you're so over worked you really don't know what my argument is. Go back and re read.
 
USNavySquid said:
Refer to #562.
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I did. You were talking about not engaging in homosexual acts. You are right--that is a choice. I am talking about who you are attracted to. Choose to be attracted to men. Or even better--if you are worried about becoming gay, find the most unattractive woman you can think of and choose to be attracted to her.
 
USNavySquid said:
I think the way you phrased that question makes an answer of "yes" to be impossible. How's this.... Do you believe that you can choose to be attracted to a woman you previously found to be unattractive? My answer is yes. I rephrased your ??? bec i don't think a person can exist in state of attraction and a state of unattraction regarding the same object/person at the same time. --Which is what i think your question was asking.
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What I am asking is this: If you see a woman that you find incredibly unattractive right now in this moment, can you choose to be attracted to her? You say yes, it seems. Really, how?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Why not? I do think for myself I am not a slave to instincts. I am attracted to brunets yet I married a blonde. Something about blonde hair just makes me say meh. But my wife has slowly changed my mind. And now her hair is turning grey, which isnt a turn on. But I find my wife very attractive and it has nothing to do with her sex or her looks. If she unfortunately was ina accident with acid or fire and was burned until she looked like a hideous monster nothing would change I would still be attracted to her in the same way that I am now.
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I never said attraction was purely physical, did I? All of what you are listing about your wife are things you find attractive about her.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nothing there disputes me. Nor is it anything I haven't read. It's clear you're so over worked you really don't know what my argument is. Go back and re read.
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I did reread and even included your quotes in my response. I spelled it out for you yet you just continue on as if I didnt pay attention. You my friend are amazing.
 
Lakryte said:
I never said attraction was purely physical, did I? All of what you are listing about your wife are things you find attractive about her.
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I cannot answer your question of absurdity.

But I do actually understand what you were trying to get at. You were wondering if a person could make them self attracted to something that repulses them normally.
That attraction would be dependent on many factors. ANd completely reliant on what decision the person has made. That is if they can indeed make such a decision. Some people can and some people cannot. But that fact doesnt matter to the people hell bent on saying that you cannot decide such things. ANd to the people that play this back and forth game they are convinced that they are right. Not ever at least once considering that they do not have all the facts on the matter. But hey why bother checking the evidence? Just get the message out right?
 
Lakryte said:
What I am asking is this: If you see a woman that you find incredibly unattractive right now in this moment, can you choose to be attracted to her? You say yes, it seems. Really, how?
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Back in the day a bottle of Jack made just about any women at closing time the most beautiful women in the world.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I did reread and even included your quotes in my response. I spelled it out for you yet you just continue on as if I didnt pay attention. You my friend are amazing.
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Than you miss a lot. And quotes out of context are meaningless my friend. The point is that choice requires a certain willingness or ability to actually consider the options. Oh, we may do a act, say as they do on occasion in prison. But a reasonable choice requires a reasonable acceptance of the proposition.
 
Boo Radley said:
Than you miss a lot. And quotes out of context are meaningless my friend. The point is that choice requires a certain willingness or ability to actually consider the options. Oh, we may do a act, say as they do on occasion in prison. But a reasonable choice requires a reasonable acceptance of the proposition.
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Then you only are stating the obvious, which doesnt deny anything that I have said.

But seriously I didnt take anything out of context, your sentences were simple and clear. First you were claiming that if a person was going to decide to do something they were required to try both things before making a decision. But now you changed it to willingness and acceptance of making such a decision. Meh you went backwards and still didnt make a good argument against my claim that some people can make a choice about the sexuality (and that isnt just my opinion the experts agree with me, see the links that I previously provided).

So there we have it my original claim still stands, that for some people their sexual orientation is a choice. And I still have not claimed that everyone can make such a choice. A point I believe that you are trying to ignore.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Then you only are stating the obvious, which doesnt deny anything that I have said.

But seriously I didnt take anything out of context, your sentences were simple and clear. First you were claiming that if a person was going to decide to do something they were required to try both things before making a decision. But now you changed it to willingness and acceptance of making such a decision. Meh you went backwards and still didnt make a good argument against my claim that some people can make a choice about the sexuality (and that isnt just my opinion the experts agree with me, see the links that I previously provided).

So there we have it my original claim still stands, that for some people their sexual orientation is a choice. And I still have not claimed that everyone can make such a choice. A point I believe that you are trying to ignore.
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I do think it's obvious, but if you were paying attention, the other person I was talking to didn't agree. The entire conversation was about the nature of choice.

And yes, you did. You have to read all the words, and not just a few. As you went along, you should have seen clarification.
 
Boo Radley said:
I do think it's obvious, but if you were paying attention, the other person I was talking to didn't agree. The entire conversation was about the nature of choice.

And yes, you did. You have to read all the words, and not just a few. As you went along, you should have seen clarification.
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I made my own claim, it wasnt a response to the conversation that you were having with another poster. In our conversation my post was the first one and then you responded to it.

If you wanted to add information that you used previously in conversation with other posters then you needed to point me to those posts if those posts were pertinent to what you and I were discussing. Otherwise I cannot read your mind, and so I can only go by what you wrote to me. Call me lazy but I dont read the entirety of every thread. There usually is a lot of pointless chatter that I dont have the time to read.

My reasoning here has been that in a small percentile sexual orientation is a choice. My point in bringing forth this information is to point out that depending on the "born this way" argument doesnt help out the small percentage that can choose. ANd ultimately shows that it is pointless to depend on such a argument when it doesnt universally work. Because face it this discussion exists because of the argument between anti-homosexuality and pro-homosexuality.

Gay sex is an entirely moral activity that should not be the basis for discrimination not because there is no choice in sexual orientation, but because it is a personal behavior that causes no harm to others. The question of what causes some people to prefer their own gender might be an interesting one, but it is not a moral one.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I made my own claim, it wasnt a response to the conversation that you were having with another poster. In our conversation my post was the first one and then you responded to it.

If you wanted to add information that you used previously in conversation with other posters then you needed to point me to those posts if those posts were pertinent to what you and I were discussing. Otherwise I cannot read your mind, and so I can only go by what you wrote to me. Call me lazy but I dont read the entirety of every thread. There usually is a lot of pointless chatter that I dont have the time to read.

My reasoning here has been that in a small percentile sexual orientation is a choice. My point in bringing forth this information is to point out that depending on the "born this way" argument doesnt help out the small percentage that can choose. ANd ultimately shows that it is pointless to depend on such a argument when it doesnt universally work. Because face it this discussion exists because of the argument between anti-homosexuality and pro-homosexuality.

Gay sex is an entirely moral activity that should not be the basis for discrimination not because there is no choice in sexual orientation, but because it is a personal behavior that causes no harm to others. The question of what causes some people to prefer their own gender might be an interesting one, but it is not a moral one.
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What you made doesn't change that you made it during another conversation, putting it in the context of that conversation. This is how misunderstandings happen.

Whether it is a moral question comes up as some claim it to be one. While I agree that it isn't, the debate is with those who think it is. I find their condemnation to be less moral.
 
It is a choice but it doesn't seem so because it's a manifestation of a cultural mental imbalance in the individual so they will never see it as being the flawed perception it is, they will always try to justify it as biological.



Such is why you see such heated posts by gays. Subconsciously they know it's a choice but they could never admit that or they'd essentially be confessing that it's actually simply the equivalent to a child playing pirate. It is possible to choose not to as evidenced by 'bisexual' people. At least that group admits it's a choice openly so.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I cannot answer your question of absurdity.

But I do actually understand what you were trying to get at. You were wondering if a person could make them self attracted to something that repulses them normally.
That attraction would be dependent on many factors. ANd completely reliant on what decision the person has made. That is if they can indeed make such a decision. Some people can and some people cannot. But that fact doesnt matter to the people hell bent on saying that you cannot decide such things. ANd to the people that play this back and forth game they are convinced that they are right. Not ever at least once considering that they do not have all the facts on the matter. But hey why bother checking the evidence? Just get the message out right?
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The evidence shows homosexuality is not a choice, since homosexuals would not commit suicide over their sexuality if they could change it, and since virtually all homosexuals argue they never made the choice to be gay.
 
Ryan5 said:
It is a choice but it doesn't seem so because it's a manifestation of a cultural mental imbalance in the individual so they will never see it as being the flawed perception it is, they will always try to justify it as biological.



Such is why you see such heated posts by gays. Subconsciously they know it's a choice but they could never admit that or they'd essentially be confessing that it's actually simply the equivalent to a child playing pirate. It is possible to choose not to as evidenced by 'bisexual' people. At least that group admits it's a choice openly so.
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Complete nonsense. Many gay people desperately wanted to be straight in our youth to avoid the discrimination and pressure of society against gays. We would have loved to make the choice to be straight, but we couldn't. Bisexual people cannot choose to be bisexual either. Gays have heated posts because many of us went through a lot to accept that our sexuality was not something we could choose. The only time I ever acted like a child playing pirate was when I pretended to be straight to fit in.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Back in the day a bottle of Jack made just about any women at closing time the most beautiful women in the world.
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If the only way you can make a woman attractive that you find unattractive is drinking a mind-altering alcoholic beverage, then you have only proven my point.
 
Ryan5 said:
It is a choice but it doesn't seem so because it's a manifestation of a cultural mental imbalance in the individual so they will never see it as being the flawed perception it is, they will always try to justify it as biological.
Such is why you see such heated posts by gays. Subconsciously they know it's a choice but they could never admit that or they'd essentially be confessing that it's actually simply the equivalent to a child playing pirate. It is possible to choose not to as evidenced by 'bisexual' people. At least that group admits it's a choice openly so.
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What exactly is a "cultural" imbalance?

What evidence do you have to support your theory that it is a choice? Or is this what you have deduced from your personal experiences?
 
Lakryte said:
The evidence shows homosexuality is not a choice, since homosexuals would not commit suicide over their sexuality if they could change it, and since virtually all homosexuals argue they never made the choice to be gay.
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Nice opinion but I dont but that 100% of all homosexuals live that lifestyle against their choice. In case you missed it, I have been asserted that there exists a small percentage of people that can chose their sexual orientation. There exists that thing called fluid sexuality, where the person (usually biologically female) can jump back and forth between heterosexuality and homosexuality. Some though have no real choice and switch back and forth against their choice but do so by their choice. To ignore that these people exist is not very nice and doesnt make them feel to good about it either.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Nice opinion but I dont but that 100% of all homosexuals live that lifestyle against their choice. In case you missed it, I have been asserted that there exists a small percentage of people that can chose their sexual orientation. There exists that thing called fluid sexuality, where the person (usually biologically female) can jump back and forth between heterosexuality and homosexuality. Some though have no real choice and switch back and forth against their choice but do so by their choice. To ignore that these people exist is not very nice and doesnt make them feel to good about it either.
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That's call bisexual, and you can't chose to be bisexual either. Sexuality is not chosen, and there is zero reason to believe it is.
 
opendebate said:
What exactly is a "cultural" imbalance?

What evidence do you have to support your theory that it is a choice? Or is this what you have deduced from your personal experiences?
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It's simply obvious is all. People get too stuck on words like homosexual, gay, bisexual. They don't exist in the flesh is my point.


They are merely culturally imbalanced organisms that through neo modern consumer cultures that lack any clear values these organisms became mentally and emotionally cultural imbalanced. Instead of following the biological coding of nature to biologically progress on the path to create another organism, these particular organisms became culturally confused through 'Bright Lights' (consumer culture). The story of the night bugs flying into the bug zapper. That is not their natural progression but they still became confused and flew into the zapper. The same is true of humans who label themselves gay, bisexual or whatever. Their signals in their upbringing somehow led them to choose destruction over progression. Nature doesn't spawn organisms with instincts to end their genetic lines. This is how you know it is a choice and not biological. Biology does not code a species to fly into the bug zapper. That is mere confusion.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
There's no poll.

But no, homosexuality isn't a choice. Gays can't just flip over to the other side anymore than a straight person can make himself gay.
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I have looked at a good number of studies on this topic that seem to prove the hypothesis you want. One statistic I saw that tends to make me think the no choice assumption might be right, is that the distribution of homosexuals (male) in different societies and cultures around the world is relativly constant.
But to be honest, that is not a really strong argument.
 
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