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Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    Votes: 12 25.0%

  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    Votes: 21 43.8%

  • Other (Elaborate)

    Votes: 12 25.0%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
Where was the concern for equal or worse during the previous 43 administrations? Why are you against going after tax cheats? Romney would have let it go with his history.
Cardinal said:
When a government agency carries out a highly contentious act that is arguably unconstitutional...and all in complete secrecy...what mechanisms are in place for citizens to challenge that act?
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Henrin said:
In order to know such information it is necessary they invade the privacy of all people. Why do you ask the people to give up their privacy in exchange for a possible danger?
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Maybe because I live in the 21st century where terrorists with a nuclear weapon can destroy a city. I'm willing to give up some personal freedom regarding who I talk to on the telephone so that it doesn't happen. This ain't the old days, folks. The bad guys are really bad and they can do serious damage. I don't give a rip whether the government listens to my telephone calls or not. I do care whether I get vaporized by a bunch of terrorists.
 
Henrin said:
The government trying to kill him for helping the people.
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Do you have a link for that? So far, it seems as though the people he's most interested in helping is the Russian intelligence services and their allies. Of course, I understand how that doesn't bother some folks. Yeah, he's as big a patriot as Benedict Arnold.
 
Every ideological person period should fervently consider the *fact* that IF what Snowden did is nationally illegitimate then the very founding basis of the US, which was founded on anti imperialism, is null and void.



People, especially conservative people, seem to forget that the US was founded as a radical revolutionary country. This kind of Snowden stuff is pure Americana values is the truth. The imperialistic, global governance, ironically 'Liberal' position is to condemn Snowden. So the hilarity, we have proclaimed patriots attacking a fellow informational revolutionary of the people in the most revolutionary nation on the planet.. How ironic.. I'm sure the British King wasn't fond of Washington either..


Again as this thread amply demonstrates, anyone who thinks conservatives are the standard bearers of much anything in terms of moral legitimacy needs to rethink. America was founded on extreme anti imperialist revolution by figures far more radical than Snowden.
 
Redress said:
When you choose to break the law, you are a criminal.
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People like Gandhi, MLK and Mandela have broken the law.

Unjust laws should ALWAYS be broken.


'... there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.'

Martin Luther King

Martin Luther King on When It’s Okay to Break the Law : Life of the Law

Anyone who blindly follows all the laws of the state is little more then a sheep.


My definition of 'hero' is someone who puts themselves in harm's way for the good of others.

Snowden (from what I know) DEFINITELY did that.

So he is a hero to me.
 
He did the right thing. The real problem is the government spying on our every day conversations and that fact being classified, not that he revealed government treachery.
 
Wiggen said:
Maybe because I live in the 21st century where terrorists with a nuclear weapon can destroy a city. I'm willing to give up some personal freedom regarding who I talk to on the telephone so that it doesn't happen. This ain't the old days, folks. The bad guys are really bad and they can do serious damage. I don't give a rip whether the government listens to my telephone calls or not. I do care whether I get vaporized by a bunch of terrorists.
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Can they watch you through the cameras in your home too?

How about if while looking for terrorists they find drugs. Can they arrest you? If while watching you through the tv they see you made more money than yiu claimed will they audit you?
 
Wiggen said:
Hardly an illusion of security. I want the government to know about the next bombers before they strike. The age of innocence has long since passed.
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If Obama had not stopped the FBI from investigating mosques the Boston Bombing would probably not have happened. So human intelligence is more import to the issue.

Also I do not trust this administration would not use the info for political purposes and for any future administration for that matter now. The time has come to re-evaluate the issue and I for one believe that engaging a broad sweep is not an appropriate tool in protecting the citizenry. What is appropriate is having targeted taps on persons of interest and who they contact.
 
I choose other.

I do not think what Snowden did is Treason. I believe that he considered holding to his oath of the Constitution of the United States to be the greater than any oath not to divulge secrets. If what Snowden did was treason than certainly the present President and the past 3 Presidents were most certainly traitors. And not many people would say this.

I do not think what Snowden did is Patriotic. While what Snowden did was a selfless act in divulging what he believed to be a blatant violation of the US Constitution his subsequent acts going to countries who have an adversarial relationship to the US mutes that. I do not blame him given the attitudes of the present administration on people who embarrass them, but still going to one countries adversaries for protection undermines positioning him as a Patriot.
 
captainawesome said:
Can they watch you through the cameras in your home too?

How about if while looking for terrorists they find drugs. Can they arrest you? If while watching you through the tv they see you made more money than yiu claimed will they audit you?
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Did you know that they can actually listen through your cell phone when you aren't using it? I imagine they could do they same with the camera on your phone and computer.
 
CRUE CAB said:
So disband all governments. Because on some level every law infringes on someones liberty.
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The issue is not whether governments should exist or not but what their boundaries should be.
 
captainawesome said:
Can they watch you through the cameras in your home too?

How about if while looking for terrorists they find drugs. Can they arrest you? If while watching you through the tv they see you made more money than yiu claimed will they audit you?
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Ahh, the old 'slippery slope' argument. Always a sign of desperation.
 
Thorgasm said:
Did you know that they can actually listen through your cell phone when you aren't using it? I imagine they could do they same with the camera on your phone and computer.
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yes they can and will. They will because people like it. It makes them feel safe.
 
well, if that's true he's fortunate he escaped to the civil liberties paradise that is Russia. Or is it Cuba now?
 
Wiggen said:
well, if that's true he's fortunate he escaped to the civil liberties paradise that is Russia. Or is it Cuba now?
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They are no less free than we are. Our government is corrupt and getting more authoritarian every day.
 
captainawesome said:
They are no less free than we are. Our government is corrupt and getting more authoritarian every day.
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Actually, if you'll study your American history, our government is FAR less authoritarian than it was even in the 1950's. We actually have more rights today than we did then, and far more than we did during, say, WWI where people were sent to jail for several years simply for saying out loud that they opposed the war.
 
I think the man is a patriot. He spilled the beans on what we all already suspected anyway and that took guts. The governments overreaction should be proof aplenty at how they know this was illegal and wrong. You don't listen in on people's private communication without a warrant, period.
 
Snowden is no patriot; he's a naive kid that is in way over his head. He may think he's a whistleblower and has a moral high ground; however his morality went out the window when he violated the oath of secrecy related to his clearance. Furthermore he is an arrogant self-serving person to think that he, and he alone, is above POTUS, Congress and the Judicial System's legislative and review process of such laws and programs pertaining to the. NSA's actions. He has declared himself by virtue of his actions as above the law and every institution of government's role. He is a coward; if he wasn't then he shouldn't have fled..
 
He's just some jerk who shouldn't have had the security clearance that he had. I blame this on the sloppy Obama Administration.
 
He's not the Messiah...he's a very naughty boy.



Actually, I think he is a hero...though a naughty one.

But those are often the best kind.

MLK, Gandhi, Mandela...they all broke the law for the greater good.

I believe Snowden did as well.
 
DA60 said:
He's not the Messiah...he's a very naughty boy.



Actually, I think he is a hero...though a naughty one.

But those are often the best kind.

MLK, Gandhi, Mandela...they all broke the law for the greater good.

I believe Snowden did as well.
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That's a dumb statement; Snowden is like none of those men.
 
greyhat said:
That's a dumb statement; Snowden is like none of those men.
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:rolleyes:

Where exactly did I say that Snowden was like those men in ANY way except that he 'broke the law for the greater good'?
 
DA60 said:
:rolleyes:

Where exactly did I say that Snowden was like those men in ANY way except that he 'broke the law for the greater good'?
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It's implied; why else the reference to them? He did not break the law for the greater good- he broke to law to satisfy his own desires. What's the greater good Snowden was thinking of???
 
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