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Do You Agree with John Stossel?

Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

  • Total voters
    96
MoSurveyor said:
No, not really.
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Yes, really. Business owners have the same right as everyone else.

If that's all you think about a truck stop you've obviously never been to a real one.
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Btw, a restaurant wouldn't go out of business from a truck stop moving in next door, but experience more business as a result. Those dudes eat a lot.
 
Henrin said:
Yeah....

The point was that the terms of the contract can very well be unjust. The fact is however this contract you speak of is only put in place so the government can control property. It really serves no other purpose at all.
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I was unaware you considered any contractual term to be "unjust"


And if you did believe that to be the contract was "unjust" then why did you sign?
 
Henrin said:
:roll: If you understand ownership it's crystal clear this is referring to property
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Which still doesn't change the simple fact that Congress could have decided not to act on this clause. I'm pretty sure the Constitution does not insist that Congress act on all it's possible powers. Isn't that the same argument you (all) use in your attempt to kill the Post Office? :roll:
 
MoSurveyor said:
I was unaware you considered any contractual term to be "unjust"

And if you did believe that to be the contract was "unjust" then why did you sign?
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The government can not make people sign a contract that forfeits their rights.
 
ernst barkmann said:
the founders sought to keep the federal government limited, and the federal government was given power only in d.c. of were states approved,....if that were not the case, then the federal government is controlling a state, its lands, and we would not have a separation of powers.

government was not given authority over the people, at all, why do you believe government can dictate to people and over their property?
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You have yet to establish a base for any property rights.


ernst barkmann said:
is the EPA in the CONSTITUTION...NO!
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Neither are air traffic control systems. And?


ernst barkmann said:
these government entities have no authority over the people...where in the constitution does it grant government powers, to control or tell the people what to do?
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I'm sure all that information is available on line. Have at it. I'm not doing your homework for you.
 
MoSurveyor said:
You think pollution isn't damage? :lamo

If you think about that a little you might begin to understand how you keep digging yourself in deeper.
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Wait. Now we're talking about pollution? I don't disagree that polluting can result in victims.

But as far as engaging in trade without a government-issued permission slip, who is the victim of the "crime" and what damage did the victim sustain to his person or property?
 
Henrin said:
Yes, really. Business owners have the same right as everyone else.
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A business owner has the same individual rights as any other person. Business do not.


Henrin said:
Btw, a restaurant wouldn't go out of business from a truck stop moving in next door, but experience more business as a result. Those dudes eat a lot.
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Only if you want that kind of restaurant. If your decor and business model is set up for the afternoon tea club and the yuppies at happy hour then you're out of business, buddy.
 
Henrin said:
The government can not make people sign a contract that forfeits their rights.
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You don't have to sign any contract. Hell, my father taught me that before I was a teenager!
 
haymarket said:
ah yes .... John Stossel who does a rant about lawsuits ruining America but has no trouble suing when he cannot take a simple slap to the head. Hypocritical wimp sissy libertarian piece of trash.
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Simple? By a guy twice his size?
Tell us bad man, what would you have done?
 
MoSurveyor said:
You have yet to establish a base for any property rights.
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DOI, AND THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF.

YOUR FAVORITE AMENDMENT...


All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


this says right here.... that life, which is right, liberty which is a right, and property which is a right, shall not be deprived without due process of law.



MoSurveyor said:
Neither are air traffic control systems. And?
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true, becuase the congress has not sought the proper roll of the constitution, to get legal power over them, by an amendment.


MoSurveyor said:
I'm sure all that information is available on line. Have at it. I'm not doing your homework for you.
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my homework, ....when did you?...get this idea the constitution was written to limit your actions?...and the rest of the people?
 
MoSurveyor said:
A business owner has the same individual rights as any other person. Business do not.
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The business is his property and so of course it falls under individual rights.

Only if you want that kind of restaurant. If your decor and business model is set up for the afternoon tea club and the yuppies at happy hour then you're out of business, buddy.
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Ummm..yeah. A place looking to attract yuppies is not going to be in a location that is desirable for a truck stop.
 
Federalist said:
Wait. Now we're talking about pollution? I don't disagree that polluting can result in victims.
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A least I don't have to go down that dumb road with you. I've seen others who argue otherwise.


Federalist said:
But as far as engaging in trade without a government-issued permission slip, who is the victim of the "crime" and what damage did the victim sustain to his person or property?
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There can be many victims or only a few, that's one reason for the license, to analyse the impact of a new business on other businesses and people in the area. The truck stop example was a case in point. A truck stop in the middle of a heavy pedestrian area with narrow streets and other non-transportation businesses creates many victims.
 
MoSurveyor said:
You don't have to sign any contract. Hell, my father taught me that before I was a teenager!
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In order to start a business I must sign a contract with the government that violates my rights. Are you saying people should not practice their right to start a business? That seems to defeat the purpose of a free society, don't you think?
 
MoSurveyor said:
A least I don't have to go down that dumb road with you. I've seen others who argue otherwise.


There can be many victims or only a few, that's one reason for the license, to analyse the impact of a new business on other businesses and people in the area. The truck stop example was a case in point. A truck stop in the middle of a heavy pedestrian area with narrow streets and other non-transportation businesses creates many victims.
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is the EPA in the constitution .....no..then its a state power, anything not an enumerated power... is state power.
 
MoSurveyor said:
There can be many victims or only a few, that's one reason for the license, to analyse the impact of a new business on other businesses and people in the area. The truck stop example was a case in point.
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Your truck stop example resulted in no damage to anyone's person or property. There WERE no victims.
 
ernst barkmann said:
DOI, AND THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF.

YOUR FAVORITE AMENDMENT...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

this says right here.... that life, which is right, liberty which is a right, and property which is a right, shall not be deprived without due process of law.
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It does NOT say property is a right. What it says is that if you happen to own property then you cannot be deprived of it without due process of law. Now THAT is the correct translation. It says nothing more than what I've written here.


ernst barkmann said:
true, becuase the congress has not sought the proper roll of the constitution, to get legal power over them, by an amendment.
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:lamo It just doesn't get any better than this! :lamo

You think air traffic control has nothing to do with interstate, even international!, commerce?!?


ernst barkmann said:
my homework, ....when did you?...get this idea the constitution was written to limit your actions?...and the rest of the people?
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Pollution is both a health and safety issue. Of all the people here I didn't expect you to argue that point. Did you and "Federalist" accidentally swap passwords or something?!? :lol:
 
Henrin said:
What right to equality? You can not have a right to liberty and a right to equality and expect them to live in harmony.

If you believe in simply the guidance of the state to declare what your rights are then it should be noted there is no right to equality even in law.
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I'm not sure how that's the case....if you could expand on that it would be greatly appreciated. What "rights" do you believe come from somewhere other than the state?
 
MoSurveyor said:
It does NOT say property is a right. What it says is that if you happen to own property then you cannot be deprived of it without due process of law. Now THAT is the correct translation. It says nothing more than what I've written here.
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are you kidding...........then what?????..is it saying cannot be deprived, unless due process of law............rights can only be deprived by due process....



MoSurveyor said:
You think air traffic control has nothing to do with interstate, even international!, commerce?!?
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really, show me where congress is given authority to regulate commerce inside a state per the constitution.?


MoSurveyor said:
Pollution is both a health and safety issue. Of all the people here I didn't expect you to argue that point. Did you and "Federalist" accidentally swap passwords or something?!? :lol:
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right and that is a state power,........ states duty is also to protect the people.

the federal government was not given authority over the land of states..states are sovereign.
 
Henrin said:
The business is his property and so of course it falls under individual rights.
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A business is a licensed entity with it's own rights and laws. It's not a person.


Henrin said:
Ummm..yeah. A place looking to attract yuppies is not going to be in a location that is desirable for a truck stop.
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You can't know that. Lots of good yuppie bars near the main roads out south, here. Plenty of room for trucks, freeway within a mile or so, etc, etc. Of course, that whole area isn't zoned for truck stops so the shopping malls and local businesses have no worries. Zoning laws cuts both ways, you know, businesses tend to benefit from them. A factory can't open up next door to a shopping mall or school.

Well, unless you're in Texas! - and I feel damn sorry for every one of those kids :(
... but not so much for the dumb ass adults that let their community be built that way.
 
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Lakryte said:
I didn't asked why the state exists. I asked if it actually solves that problem. Considering the state violates property rights more than anyone else, and considering the scandals surrounding the NSA, it doesn't seem like the state solves that problem at all. The state itself is a rule-breaker. If humans tend to be rule-breakers, what is to stop a state of humans from breaking the rules? Nothing really.
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So you take the stance that rule-breaking would decrease if the state did not exist? That somehow those humans that tend to be rule-breakers would break rules less if there was no structured system in place to seek recourse for rule breaking? That the state isn't perfect but some stateless society would be?
 
MoSurveyor said:
A business is a licensed entity with it's own rights and laws. It's not a person.
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I never said business is a person. What I said is that business is the property of people.

You can't know that. Lots of good yuppie bars near the main roads out south, here. Plenty of room for trucks, freeway within a mile or so, etc, etc. Of course, that whole area isn't zoned for truck stops so the shopping malls and local businesses have no worries. That zoning law thing cuts both ways, you know. A factory can't open up next door to a shopping mall or school.
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I just don't get it. Why would a yuppie bar want to be in that location?
 
Henrin said:
In order to start a business I must sign a contract with the government that violates my rights. Are you saying people should not practice their right to start a business? That seems to defeat the purpose of a free society, don't you think?
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I'm not aware of any right to start a business.

As far as you guys have shown, there's not even a (constitutional) right to property, though you have so far demonstrated that IF people own property it's can't be taken away from them without due process.

PS
Oh, and you've shown that Congress can dictate intellectual property rights.
/PS



Your ideas about what constitutes a free society and mine are obviously not the same, so why bother using that misleading phrase?
 
ernst barkmann said:
is the EPA in the constitution .....no..then its a state power, anything not an enumerated power... is state power.
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Considering air and water aren't limited to one state, businesses that pollute in one state can sure as hell damage people in another state. And what laws cover those situations?
 
Federalist said:
Your truck stop example resulted in no damage to anyone's person or property. There WERE no victims.
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You here I thought you just agreed pollution has victims.

Make up your mind!
 
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