• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
Geoist said:
I never said we should never appreciate anything. For example, I appreciate the works of Ernest Hemingway. However, I think there is a difference between appreciating an accomplishment, and revering as 'altruistic' certain positions as we do with military service. It is practically to the point of idolatry.
Click to expand...
Most of us see military service as an opportunity for the server. It's like a politician. They don't do it as a public service. They do it to open doors and enhance their own chances at a better life. So, in a lot of ways, a career-soldier and Ted Kennedy have a lot in common.
 
ecofarm said:
Ok, let's try this:

I don't believe in communism, but things can be communistic. Have you ever seen communism? I haven't. Though there are things (particularly, philosophy and perhaps even policy) that can be considered to have communist qualities.
Click to expand...

Once again, apples and oranges. How can an action be altruistic (and not altruism) if there are selfish motives?
 
ecofarm said:
Idolatry is the worship of an object. What object is being worshiped when one thanks another for their service (whatever service that may be)?
There's nothing about object worship in thanking a teacher, a doctor, a cop, a firefighter or a soldier for their service to the community. It doesn't mean that anyone worships schools, hospitals, police stations, fire stations or the military.
Click to expand...

Idolatry is a pejorative term for the worship of an idol, a physical object such as a cult image, as a god,[1] or practices believed to verge on worship, such as giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.
Catechism of The Catholic Church, passage 2113, p.460, Geoffrey Chapman, 1999

And I am not just talking about saying "thank you" (though it seems odd to say it when one has no idea what the person did in the service or what their motives were for joining.) Military people are held in reverence in a manner not seen with any other profession. You cannot deny this.
 
ecofarm said:
Your claims are BS:

1. That Saddam did not kill hundreds of thousands of children, on purpose, just prior to the war.
2. That Saddam did not kill in excess of 1m Iraqis, just according to the big stuff, during his dictatorship.
3. That Saddam therefore killed less than the coalition.
4. That Iraq would have been all happiness and joy if not for the invasion.

All BS.



That's a 2004 article from notorious pillow biters.
Click to expand...

Of course it's 2004. The war began in 2003.

Please, if you can't comment on what I actually claimed, refrain from being silly. I've support my claim. I'm waiting for you to actually address it.
 
Geoist said:
Idolatry is a pejorative term for the worship of an idol, a physical object such as a cult image, as a god,[1] or practices believed to verge on worship, such as giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.
Catechism of The Catholic Church, passage 2113, p.460, Geoffrey Chapman, 1999

And I am not just talking about saying "thank you" (though it seems odd to say it when one has no idea what the person did in the service or what their motives were for joining.) Military people are held in reverence in a manner not seen with any other profession. You cannot deny this.
Click to expand...

Saying thank you to someone for their service does not mean that one worships the institution to which they are attached. If I thank a waiter at the Olive Garden, it does not mean that I worship the 'Great Garden of Olives which brings all good things to mankind'.

Why can't you thank someone without worshiping an institution? It seems you've attached an entirely unrealistic perspective on common courtesy and appreciation.

Why do you wage this inquisition on appreciation?



HOW DARE you appreciate anyone's actions! Idolater!

haha Nonsense.
 
ecofarm said:
Saying thank you to someone for their service does not mean that one worships the institution to which they are attached. If I thank a waiter at the Olive Garden, it does not mean that I worship the 'Great Garden of Olives which brings all good things to mankind'.
Click to expand...

I already addressed this.
 
Boo Radley said:
Of course it's 2004. The war began in 2003.

Please, if you can't comment on what I actually claimed, refrain from being silly. I've support my claim. I'm waiting for you to actually address it.
Click to expand...

You have ignored reality, statistics and evidence beyond question. You pretend that Saddam's history does not exist. You pretend that everything was fine in Iraq and peace, love and joy would have filled the streets had the coalition not invaded. This is fantasy.

I will not indulge you in the debates of a decade ago ("did sanctions hurt the Iraqi people" and "was the war worth it, one year later") until you acknowledge the reality of Saddam's history and likely future.

As long as you insist on ignoring hard facts and their implications regarding Saddam's continued rule, your attempt to divert into old debates will go ignored.
 
Geoist said:
I already addressed this.
Click to expand...

So, then, you think it is possible to thank someone for their service without worshiping the institution to which they are attached?

Good, we've made progress.

Thank you.
(note, I am not worshiping debatepolitics.com, I'm just thanking you)
 
ecofarm said:
You have ignored reality, statistics and evidence beyond question. You pretend that Saddam's history does not exist. You pretend that everything was fine in Iraq and peace, love and joy would have filled the streets had the coalition not invaded. This is fantasy.

I will not indulge you in the debates of a decade ago ("did sanctions hurt the Iraqi people" and "was the war worth it, one year later") until you acknowledge the reality of Saddam's history and likely future.

As long as you insist on ignoring hard facts and their implications regarding Saddam's continued rule, your attempt to divert into old debates will go ignored.
Click to expand...

I don't do any if that. I state clear in 2003 he was not killing at the level that justified invasion and gave support for it. You just don't want to debate the actual claim.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't do any if that. I state clear in 2003 he was not killing at the level that justified invasion and gave support for it. You just don't want to debate the actual claim.
Click to expand...

He was killing 50k+ children per year through intentional starvation. He had already killed 50k per year averaged over his dictatorship. That he would continue to kill 50k per year is a reasonable conclusion.

Pretending that everything in Iraq would have been perfect without the invasion is fantasy. Everything Saddam ever did points in the other direction.
 
ecofarm said:
He was killing 50k+ children per year through intentional starvation. He had already killed 50k per year averaged over his dictatorship. That he would continue to kill 50k per year is a reasonable conclusion.

Pretending that everything in Iraq would have been perfect without the invasion is fantasy.
Click to expand...

They were malnourished not dead. They are still malnourished.
 
ecofarm said:
So, then, you think it is possible to thank someone for their service without worshiping the institution to which they are attached?
Click to expand...

I already said that. It goes beyond saying thank you.

Military idolatry isn’t reserved for Veterans Day. It’s present at halftime shows and seventh-inning stretches. It’s lurking before previews at your local movie theater. It’s evident in posted discounts at restaurants and exclusive lounges at airports. It’s displayed through commercials on television and sponsored road races on the weekend. It’s strewn together in statues, parades and official holidays. And like sitting during the National Anthem, if you dare speak out against it, you’re bombarded by insults and face gratuitous intimidation and/or violence.
U.S. brainwashed to support military-industrial complex | The Eagle Online

Good, we've made progress.
Click to expand...

On your reading comprehension? ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
They were malnourished not dead. They are still malnourished.
Click to expand...

WRONG.

They are dead. 400k children DIED, of starvation, because Saddam sold that amount of baby formula and cereal to gather cash for institutionalized rape - in the years JUST PRIOR to the invasion.
 
Geoist said:
I already said that. It goes beyond saying thank you.

Military idolatry isn’t reserved for Veterans Day. It’s present at halftime shows and seventh-inning stretches. It’s lurking before previews at your local movie theater. It’s evident in posted discounts at restaurants and exclusive lounges at airports. It’s displayed through commercials on television and sponsored road races on the weekend. It’s strewn together in statues, parades and official holidays. And like sitting during the National Anthem, if you dare speak out against it, you’re bombarded by insults and face gratuitous intimidation and/or violence.
U.S. brainwashed to support military-industrial complex | The Eagle Online
Click to expand...


Start a thread, I recommend the Conspiracy Theory subforum.
 
ecofarm said:
Start a thread, I recommend the Conspiracy Theory subforum.
Click to expand...

There is nothing about a conspiracy in what I said or in that article. It is simply a social condition that is misguided imo.
 
Geoist said:
There is nothing about a conspiracy in what I said or in that article. It is simply a social condition that is misguided imo.
Click to expand...

Well, it appears the I and everyone I've ever known has escaped this BS that you claim exists. I've never known anyone who worships the military. I've never known anyone without some kind of criticism of the military. I've never known anyone that is ok with everything the military has ever done. I've never met anyone who believes that everything the military does is right and just (like God). Including the people I met in the military.

Have you ever considered that you might be the only person to have suffered this affliction and, perhaps, it's all to do with you?
 
ecofarm said:
Well, it appears the I and everyone I've ever known has escaped this BS that you claim exists. I've never known anyone who worships the military. I've never known anyone without some kind of criticism of the military. I've never known anyone that is ok with everything the military has ever done. I've never met anyone who believes that everything the military does is right and just (like God). Including the people I met in the military.
Click to expand...

Some supporters of nationalism/militarism may criticize certain individuals and minor strategies but almost never question the overall policies or institution itself. Nationalists/militarists tend to support our foreign interventions wholeheartedly and without question. Critics of our militarism are thought of as "unpatriotic" or even "traitors." I have known many of them myself. Most of them not in the military. Interestingly enough, those who have served have come out quite cynical and critical of our State and the military.

Have you ever considered that you might be the only person to have suffered this affliction and, perhaps, it's all to do with you?
Click to expand...

I am shocked you have never heard criticism of American nationalism/militarism before.
 
Geoist said:
I am shocked you have never heard criticism of American nationalism/militarism before.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand.

I've never met anyone, in the civilian or military world, that worships the military. Every single person that I've ever met has criticisms of the military. Every single person that I've ever met has things about the military with which they do not agree, be that policy and/or actions.

I've met plenty of people who thank teachers, cops, doctors and even meter maids. I've met people who thank those who work in soup kitchens, and I do so as well. None of them, nor I, have ever worshiped the accompanying institution.

Maybe it's just you.
 
ecofarm said:
WRONG.

They are dead. 400k children DIED, of starvation, because Saddam sold that amount of baby formula and cereal to gather cash for institutionalized rape - in the years JUST PRIOR to the invasion.
Click to expand...

Listen to what you're saying. "Saddam stole food out of babies mouths so that his regime could rape more women."

And, you wonder why we think you're brainwashed? Dude that crap sounds even more simple-minded than George's "They hate us for our freedoms." :roll:

The country's economic conditions worsened during the 1990s, and at the turn of the 21st century, Iraq's economy started to grow again as several states ignored U.N. sanctions. In the wake of the September 11 attacks of 2001, the United States, under President George W. Bush, initiated a Global War on Terrorism, and labelled Iraq as a part of an "Axis of Evil". The United States, and several other allied countries, invaded Iraq in March 2003, and the Ba'athist Iraqi government was deposed less than a month later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'athist_Iraq
Click to expand...
 
calamity said:
Listen to what you're saying. "Saddam stole food out of babies mouths so that he could rape more women."
Click to expand...

Saddam sold food to the tune of 400k dead children, institutionalized rape was funded with that money - in the years just before the war. Deal with it.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Please address the topic and not other posters.
 
Saddam was a very bad dude to his own people and our action was better than inaction. I agree with our former President when he said:

"If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."

"Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people. And mark my words; he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them. Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future."
 
ecofarm said:
Saddam sold food to the tune of 400k dead children, institutionalized rape was funded with that money - in the years just before the war. Deal with it.
Click to expand...

That's bull. The only time Saddam intentionally killed 400,000 people was when he was gassing Kurds. Sanctions starved the children. It's a hell of a twist on reality to say Saddam starved them so he could continue institutional rape.

Now, if you argued that Uday was a serial rapist, I'd agree. But this other stuff, the "institutionalized rape" is...well, you mentioned the "Conspiracy Forum". I suggest you take that unsubstantiated crap there.
 
calamity said:
That's bull. The only time Saddam intentionally killed 400,000 people was when he was gassing Kurds. Sanctions starved the children. It's a hell of a twist on reality to say Saddam starved them so he could continue institutional rape.
Click to expand...

The evidence is clear. Saddam sold food that could have prevented the starvation of 400k children so that he could continue to build rape palaces.

Now, if you argued that Uday was a serial rapist, I'd agree. But this other stuff, the "institutionalized rape" is...well, you mentioned the "Conspiracy Forum". I suggest you take that unsubstantiated crap there.
Click to expand...

The kidnapping, rape, passing down and eventual murder of highschool girls was a matter of state policy, sanctioned by the state and beyond legal rebuke.
 
ecofarm said:
Saddam sold food to the tune of 400k dead children, institutionalized rape was funded with that money - in the years just before the war. Deal with it.
Click to expand...

he had a special palace built on "Lost Lake", called the "perfume palace" where his sons and their henchmen took multitudes of hapless Iraqi girls and women to rape and murder them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom