• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Th War On War On Atheism

The War on Atheism!

  • Total voters
    39
Cephus said:
Agnostics are, almost without exception, atheists, most of them are just afraid to admit it.
Click to expand...

Depends. Personally I tend to identify as a philosophical agnostic and a de facto atheist. This means that I recognize the logical fact that we cannot prove a negative (that god does not exist/cannot exist), but similarly since there's no earthly reason to believe god does exist, as a practical matter I tend to think and behave under the premise that god doesn't exist.
 
Aderleth said:
Depends. Personally I tend to identify as a philosophical agnostic and a de facto atheist. This means that I recognize the logical fact that we cannot prove a negative (that god does not exist/cannot exist), but similarly since there's no earthly reason to believe god does exist, as a practical matter I tend to think and behave under the premise that god doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Atheism/theism and agnosticism/gnosticism deal with two entirely different things. The first deals with belief, the second deals with knowledge. Unless you actively believe in the existence of a god, you are an atheist, regardless of your position on the availability of knowledge on such things. Theism is a positive belief. If you cannot say that you actively believe in a god, then you are an atheist, which is just a rejection of theism. That includes if you say you don't know or don't care if gods exist. No belief = atheism.
 
Cephus said:
Atheism/theism and agnosticism/gnosticism deal with two entirely different things. The first deals with belief, the second deals with knowledge. Unless you actively believe in the existence of a god, you are an atheist, regardless of your position on the availability of knowledge on such things. Theism is a positive belief. If you cannot say that you actively believe in a god, then you are an atheist, which is just a rejection of theism. That includes if you say you don't know or don't care if gods exist. No belief = atheism.
Click to expand...

I understand where you're coming from, but that's not the only way those terms get used. :shrug:
 
Aderleth said:
I understand where you're coming from, but that's not the only way those terms get used. :shrug:
Click to expand...

It's the only proper way though. Words mean things for a reason.
 
Aderleth said:
I understand where you're coming from, but that's not the only way those terms get used. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Yes, but it's the proper definitions. Gnostic theist, agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist.
 
I am not religious....I do not believe in any higher beings whatsoever...I've been labeled an Atheist. Atheism is the lack of religion. It is hard to have a war against NOT believing in something.

There is a stigma certainly, but it is what it is. War? Yeah I don't buy into wars against intangible things
 
Cardinal said:
Well...you are in Seattle.

I would imagine that for feelings of anti-atheism to be felt on a more personal level one would have to live in the Bible Belt.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I am in Seattle, and before that I've spent some 25 years in Massachusetts/New Hampshire.
(Though I had lived in Baton Rouge, LA, for six months, and nobody seemed to be bothered with my atheism there either).

But perhaps we are talking about different "levels" here.

I am an immigrant - a Pole who grew up in Russia; nobody is expecting confessional or parochial loyalties from me. I work hard, I "contribute", I don't litter - I am OK, "accepted".

In a family of devout Southern Baptists, it would not be that simple, would it? Your parents try to convey to you what they hold as their most precious possession - and you tell them that it is entirely meaningless.

Well, it should be a beginning of a long, patient conversation - not a declaration of war.
 
Last edited:
winston53660 said:
Wadda ya say yay or ney
Click to expand...

It is extremely saddening that another person's religion is even an issue in 2013. I believe an ecclectic undefinable array of religious views but I do not care at all what somebody else believes. If there is a war on atheism that I'm missing; shame on organized religion. Shame on it.
 
Dooble said:
Nay. Atheists are at war with Christians, though.
Click to expand...

Well,that is your opinion,but exactly how are atheists at war with Christians?

Are atheists invading christian countries and forcibly converting them to their beliefs?
(wait,didn't Christians used to do that to a lot of non christian countries?).

Are atheists enacting laws forbidding Christians from owning certain property and being in certain professions?
(didn't Christians used to do that to the Jews at one time).

Are atheists forcibly taking over Christian temples and converting them to atheist meeting places?
(didn't christians used to do that to the pagans at one time?)

Are atheists forcing christians to live in ghettos and wear sewed on religious symbol on their clothes to identify them as a "seperate group"
(didn't Christians used to do that to the Jews at one time?)

Sorry,but I just don't see an "atheist war on Christians". I really don't see some concerted effort on the part of atheists to prevent Christians from worshiping Christ,reading their Bibles,and going to their Churches.

This is just my opinion,and you or anyone can take it for what it's worth,but I suspect this "atheist war on Christians" really is just certain (not all,and not even most) Christians who seem to be all butt hurt because atheists (and other non-Christians) are telling Christians:

"we are no longer required to pucker up and kiss your asses simply because you worship Jesus.Your religion no longer gives you license to tell us what to do,what to think,what to say,how to say it,what to believe,who to worship,who to love and how to love simply because you worship Jesus.Christianity is not the sole proprietor/owner of such concepts as "God","Love","Compassion"Hope","The Afterlife" and "marriage".Christianity does not mean Christians get automatic control of everyone else simple because they are Christians. Christianity does not mean Christians are allowed to break laws/rules,contracts etc with impunity simply because they worship Jesus.
This may come to a shock to some of you,but in America ,people are only required to respect your right to HAVE beliefs.No one is actually required to respect or even like those beliefs.No one is allowed to PREVENT you from having those beliefs.
You may not like having to hear this,and it may be considered rude when anyone does this,but there is no law that prohibits anyone from questioning Christianity,questioning Christians,criticizing Christianity,criticizing Christians,or even ridiculing Christianity or Christians.I don't think it's a nice thing to do,but this is America.
Anyone who doesn't like America is free to leave it".

But like I said,this is all just my opinion.
You can take it or leave it.
It really doesn't matter either way to me.
 
Last edited:
Dooble said:
Nay. Atheists are at war with Christians, though.
Click to expand...

Seeing as how being an atheist kills a candidate's chances of ever becoming president, it's certainly not a very effective war we're waging.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Exactly, when Christ returns and destorys the world. You are correct, the truth will win out.
Click to expand...

Whether Christ returns or not is a matter of belief,not fact.
That's really just the opinion of the guy who wrote "Revelations".
And the Truth my not what you expect it to be.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Exactly, when Christ returns and destorys the world. You are correct, the truth will win out.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but we will be the ones who keep your pets safe and happy afterward. So be nice.

Eternal Earth-Bound Pets

You've committed your life to Jesus. You know you're saved. But when the Rapture comes what's to become of your loving pets who are left behind?
Eternal Earth-Bound Pets takes that burden off your mind.

Our service is plain and simple; our fee structure is reasonable.
For $135.00 we will guarantee that should the Rapture occur within ten (10) years of receipt of payment, one pet per residence will be saved. Each additional pet at your residence will be saved for an additional $20.00 fee. A small price to pay for your peace of mind and the health and safety of your four legged and feathered friends.
Click to expand...
 
11481630_6566308_70169157ef_z_xlarge.jpeg
 
If there is can I be a conscientious objector? Or will I need to go to Canada to avoid the draft?
 
There certainly is no war on atheists... or Christians or Muslims, for that matter. Nobody in this country needs to fear being dragged off and jailed because of their religion or their lack of one.

There is, however, considerably prejudice against atheists. There are places, including public and private schools, that simply refuse to hire atheists. It's possible that an avowed atheist could be elected to a local town council, but I don't foresee an atheist being elected to state legislatures or to congress simply because of bigotry; religious people will simply not vote for them. In fact, I suspect an atheist would never be appointed or hired for any governmental position, at least not in my lifetime, because of the potential for voter blowback toward whomever were to hire or appoint one.

Decades ago, I recall atheists being actively shunned and reviled by communities. In many places in America, I suspect they still are. Most atheists and agnostics simply don't discuss their lack of belief in deities for that very reason. If pinned to the wall by direct questions on their religion (such as in the military, some hospitals, and hundreds of other hiring situations... yes, now it's supposedly illegal to inquire about one's religion during employment interviews but face it, it happens all the time) most would use the term "non-religious", which leaves a bit of wiggle room for the questioner to presume that aren't particularly devout, but thankfully weren't an evil "atheist"!

I know that's the term I use most often when pressed with unavoidable questions about my religion. Lately, I don't much care who knows that I don't believe in god(s), although I certainly don't discuss it in front of my holier-than-thou newly-converted kids and their families. I don't like my grandchildren being informed that "grandma will not be joining the rest of us in heaven." It is not acceptable to tell someone that there is no evidence that their god(s) exist, but it's perfectly acceptable to tell atheists and agnostics (and anyone else that doesn't share their exact religious beliefs) that they are going to fry in the fires of hell because they are evil.

Whatever. An annoying hypocrisy to me, but it is what it is.
 
Somehow i knew this would descend into christian persecution complex.
 
As a kid when I was forced to go to Church it was described as a war.
 
Sarcogito said:
In the US? No. There is no war on atheism. There is no war on Christmas. Is there prejudice against atheists? Sure. In some places in the States it is fairly rampant. In other places it isn’t given a second thought. But I wouldn’t call it a war, even in a metaphorical sense.

However, outside of the US? I am currently living in a country where people are rotting away in prison for being atheists. It is actually a fairly tolerant country when it comes to religions. Christian AND Muslim holidays are celebrated equally and recognized as government holidays. But if you publically espouse being an atheist you risk being dragged away from your home and being thrown in jail. Is there a “war” on atheism here? Definitely.
Click to expand...

this is what gets me when american atheists speak about being "persecuted" due to some old bird giving them dirty looks.

Seriously, stop being such an emo-bitch
 
Removable Mind said:
I think after century after century of religious domination...I think that it's laughable that religions and their followers are intimidated by atheists. Just because atheists are standing up and saying that religion and government don't mix...isn't reason to get all upset. The reality is: government and religion don't mix.
Click to expand...

Why on earth would you view the separation of church and state an "atheist" movement?
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Why on earth would you view the separation of church and state an "atheist" movement?
Click to expand...

Well, DC, you are absolutely gonna hate my reply.

Atheism isn't a movement engaging in any movements that I'm aware of. Nor was the concept and/or application/practice of separation of church and state created by a movement. And certainly it wasn't conceived by a make-believe-atheist-movement which you just introduced as the premise of your post.
 
Removable Mind said:
Well, DC, you are absolutely gonna hate my reply.
Click to expand...

1) I have told you numerous times I am an atheist.

2) YOU characterized it as an "atheist movement"

you wrote, and I directly quoted you as writing, "I think after century after century of religious domination...I think that it's laughable that religions and their followers are intimidated by atheists. Just because atheists are standing up and saying that religion and government don't mix...isn't reason to get all upset."

3) you could certainly say that there was a"movement" out of the enlightenment that supported the separation of church and state, with it's popularization via the writings of Locke
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom